Gengrobatida (okay, fine, "Greavus"...get it? "Grievous?")

[Dendrobatida]

Been thinking about what my new deck might be in the upcoming format, what with the rules changes showing up at my doorstep, stealing all my politoed's fossil friends, and replacing them with prizish wannabes. A quick perusal of the D/P spoilers revealed the new Gengar, and I though it looked sufficiently vicious to build a deck around. However, without my fossil crutch, I was a little unsure about how to use it. That's where I'd like y'all's help. I've got a few different ways of attacking my strategy, and I want your input on which would be the best.

Here's a few translations for everyone's reference:

Haunter L.22 – Psychic – HP70
Stage 1 – Evolves from Gastly

[P] Hypnosis: The Defending Pokemon is now Asleep.
[P][P] Dream Eater: 60 damage. If the Defending Pokemon is not Asleep, this attack does nothing.

Weakness: Darkness (+20)
Resistance: Colorless (-20)
Retreat: 0

Gengar L.39 – Psychic – HP110
Stage 2 – Evolves from Haunter

[C] Life Drain: Flip a coin, if heads place damage counters on the Defending Pokemon until it has 10 HP remaining.
[P][P][C] Shadow Dance: Place 4 damage counters on your opponent’s Pokemon in any way you like. Then, switch Gengar with 1 of your Benched Pokemon.

Weakness: Darkness (+30)
Resistance: Colorless (-20)
Retreat: 1

Mumage L.37 – Psychic – HP90
Stage 1 – Evolves from Misdreavus

[P] Swelling Spite: Place damage counters on the Defending Pokemon equal to the number of damage counters on any one of your Pokemon.
[P][P][C] Psywave: Does 30 damage + 20 damage x the number of Energy attached to the Defending Pokemon.

Weakness: Darkness (+20)
Resistance: Colorless (-20)
Retreat: 1

The basic strategy of this deck is to render your opponent's active pokemon asleep with misdreavus, free retreat misdreavus, attack with Gengar, and bring missy back up to continue the sleep lock. The mumage will be used in pinch sorts of situations, especially if Gengar accumulates a significant number of damage counters.

The concept I need your input on is the ideal way to reduce Misdreavus's retreat cost to zero. The way I see it, there's three ways to go about it: 1) Holon Energy WP. Nice because it can work on any of the pokes, and if I add a couple tech water energy, I've got a nasty undragoffable Gengar on the bench. 2) Phoebe's stadium: Works on all my pokemon, but is easily counterable. 3) 4-2 smoochum d/jynx. Great starter, automatically reduces that retreat cost for all these here pokes, but smoochum is vulnerable, and even jynx folds to lickitung D in 2 shots. Since the jynx version is the most card-intensive, I'll go ahead and make that my list:

4 Gastly (LM - autopoison)
3 Haunter (D/S - free retreat, nice little t2 combo with opening missy)
4 Gengar (D/S - Main attacker)
4 Misdreavus (LM - also main attacker)
2 Mumage (little bit techy)
4 smoochum d (starter)
2 Jynx d
1 Holon Voltorb
Total: 24

4 holon transceiver
2 Holon adventurer (extra smoochums = 4 cards)
3 Holon Mentor
1 Holon Scientist
3 Rare Candy
4 Celio's Network
2 Copycat
3 Windstorm
Total: 21

4 Double Rainbow Energy (doesn't affect Gengar's attacks at all).
8 Psychic Energy
2 Scramble Energy (instamumage)
Total: 14

Granted, if I don't go with the smoochum/jynx, and rely solely on Misdreavus as my ideal starter, I get opening disruption AND 6 card slots to play with (Energy root? A tech Hypno line? Reversals? ER2? More draw? Cursed Stone? Bear in mind that, should I drop the delta pokemon, I probably wouldn't bother with the holon line as trainers - there's better stuff out there for a deck like this if I don't have the smoochum d's to throw away midgame). Regardless, though, the bulk of the strategy is to sleeplock with misdreavus and snipe away the bench with Gengar. A castform would be your best bet to lock, but anything will do. If your opponent does take prizes, they should ideally be 2-3 misdreavus.


Thoughts?

-Jake/Dendro

[Time for Pain]

sleep + hypno is so good. you need it in here

[BlackBrock]

i love the idea. a great Staduim i think would work in here is Meteor Falls to help with a easy sleep lock even with Haunter if need be.

To your questions : I do think Holon WP will be a good idea. but if you do play it. use atleast one strictly for Jynx just incase your oppoent is playing Lick d.

ER2, i feel would be best. whith them being sleep, discard their energy, while damaging them. soudns liek a great combo. um asfar as droppnig a pokemon line, altho staduims are esyliy countiable, Meteor Falls or Pheobes Staduim would be a good idea, because if it is counter'd you still have Holon WP. (if you play it)

*shrugs* jsut some thoughts. =)

[~`Flygon`~]

That Gengar is BEASTLY. I thought Delta Species is being rotated out also,if so u might wanna abuse Scotts.

Cursed Stone and ER2 would be lovely in here. Also Battle Froniter wouldn hurt you either.It sucks Pokemon Reversal is leaving,but warp point wouldnt be bad either,it makes them think twice bout their moves.

If no holon engine,Tv Reporter and PETM are useful,I would run 2 only 2 PETM tho since u maxed out Celio.

Jirachi ex CG is a tech for this,a PSy,good attack and can disrupt early.

Good deck otherwise.

[Dom]

Looks really good.

I don't think I'd bother with Mumage personally, and I think I'd possibly go with a smaller Jynx line, 2-2. I think there's that new non-Supporter that puts Pokemon back into the deck so if they Lick it it shouldn't be too hard to get out again. Lickitung could actually be a decent starter here. Think I'd possibly run Cursed Stone as well, make it a little bit more offensive.

[thethirdckelly1]

Why not cursed stone? It would be really good with gengar's first attack. I know that isn't the focus of the deck, but cursed stone is still good with gengar's damage spreading attack.

[Prime]

WP seems like the best approach. If you do play Jynx DF, might as well tech in some UF Jynx to spread even more damage. And Cursed Powder would work well in this deck imho. Being able to spread damage and then also do damage to the active if they KO whatever you send up.

I'd ditch the Mismagius idea (Mumage). It's decent, but with a switch or a warp point, or with a briney, or evolution, they could get out of sleep. The Gengar is much like the Politoed. But now you can abuse Scramble :)

[Dom]

I think Misdreavus alone without the evolution is gonna be most effective and efficient approach.

Just curious, is this Gengar in DP1 or DP2?

[Muk Man]

fluffy berry... problem solved... add castaway for enery tool and trainer support and you have a very consistent deck
since you wanna run root, you can grab either one...

[super goku ken]

OMG Dendrobatida bring his out I do the Same
Here you go I been have this deck list for a long time. But I was save it for Batlle Road or Next yr. cities (anyway)

Hypnogen D/P Deck

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?p=836816#post836816

[Rambo1000]

i sooooo talked about how much i love gengar on the roundtable....

you HAVE to play cursed stones... like 4. castaway+fluffy berry/energy root/etc. is gooood too. the mismagus or mumage or whatever is really good... i'd go 4-4 on that line and drop the jynx all together.

[Dendrobatida]

Been running this on apprentice and it works prooty well (have had to use LM gengar as a proxy, with Dusclops EX as a proxy for Mumage). Of all the versions, the 2-2 smoochum/jynx (thanks, Dom) works BY FAR the best. The thing about Holon WP is that you need to slap down 2 energy on misdreavus to get that to work. That's 3 turns worth of attachment (the initial sleep requires me to pick up the energy), and that's too slow. The fluffy berry, energy root, etc. is so easily windstormable that it's unplayable; I have to focus on only playing one tool at a time, and it still isn't as reliable as mentoring once for automatic free retreat all game long, plus another basic.

Dom, I tried it out without the techish mumage, but it's just too good, especially since Gengar has 110 HP. Anything less than a OHKO and my opponent has to be worried about getting smacked for 80-100 for one energy. It also makes me less concerned about trying for life drain. I can life drain, take a big hit, then switch out, get my KO, and have plenty of damage on Gengar for a Mumage retaliation later.

I tried a 1-1 hypno tech, but it actually wasn't as helpful as I would have liked. It even works at cross purposes with Mumage, since it prevents energy attachment and Mumage relies upon that for damage. If I do decide to drop the 2 Mumage, hypno might very well go back in.

Keep the advice comin',

Jake

[thethirdckelly1]

Are there any powers that put a pokemon to sleep?

[Dendrobatida]

Not legal ATM. Wigglytuff's body does it, but I think that's about it.

[DarkMagnus]

i think what he was aiming for was a non atk way of doing it so one could sleep then atk. but you probly knew that. love the list. and DS rotating? never heard such a thing. maybe they will jump a set 0.o

[mila]

Wiggly may work. ^^

[SuicidalPikachu]

DS prolly wont get rotated, im think it will be up to UF, you know, 3 sets gone just like last year?

[swanton1717]

I agree with the Cursed Stone idea. I think thats a very good idea. Also another bonus of Cursed Stone is that it is possible to get ohkos with Gengars first attack..im sure ur not gonna wanna flip for that, but sometimes it must be done =)

Looks good!

[Papi/Manny]

I would consider adding in a few warp energy/cyclone energy and heal energy (flareon ex can be a bummer). Of course, 50 hp isn't alot to rely on, so if they opponet wakes up (2 heads isn't that hard to do if you're given so many turns), I see some problems. I also see some decks throwing in heal energies just for this type of deck, so you might want to tech in the hypno anyways. If only dark gengar was still around....then this would be a fun deck.

[mila]

free retreat with jynx is great

[Vegeta ss4]

free retreat with jynx is great

that would be a waste of space IMO....

[Darkwalker]

I made a 40 card deck revolving around Misdreavus (LM) and Hypno. The main problems with the deck are the low hit points for the main attacker, stunted energy attatchment because of how Misdreavus works, and dealing with losing your main attacker every time you KO one of your opponet's Pokemon if you do it with Misdreavus. The new Gengar solves some of the problems because you can bring it up to finish weakened pokemon off and take a hit (hopefully). Cursed Stone definately needs to be in here to help spread damage around and put some pressure on your opponent. ER2 was useless in mine beacuse my opponent often had more than enough time to set up their bench while I slowly killed off their sleeping active. Pokemon Reversal would be a much better choice as you can pull up something you want to damage and put an almost KO'd pokemon on the bench for Gengar later. Pheobe's Stadium or Jynx d both work well, but I also found a 2-2 or even 3-2/1 Jynx d/Jynx (UF) worked a little better, plus it gives you another good starter. As suggested above, energy that do something (like Heal, Warp, and Cyclone) all combo nicely with Misdreavus and might be a better choice than the flip reliant Reversal.

[SuicidalPikachu]

well, with gengar, you can just lock in an active pokemon and use Gengar to pwn the bench out of existance, sorta like jynxfett.. so the whole opponent getting set up wouldnt be a problem.

[Dendrobatida]

well, with gengar, you can just lock in an active pokemon and use Gengar to pwn the bench out of existance, sorta like jynxfett.. so the whole opponent getting set up wouldnt be a problem.

Precisely. My intent with the deck is really to leave the active alone (NOT knock it out) so that I can get at the bench at my leisure. Knocking out the active would give my opponent a free shot at whatever, and I'd rather not do that.

[Magnechu]

Erm, how do you get out the Pokemon that you want to lock in? You don't play Reversal or Umbreon, do you just hope you can get the lock going before they retreat their Castform?

[Dendrobatida]

Don't really matter much to me what I lock in, whether it be a castform, Mew Ex, Flygon EX d (though I'd have to be careful about benched basics), or what have you. I'll just snipe around until I can eliminate it and whatever threat's building behind it. If it's really fargly, I'll life drain it, flip tails, take my 100 damage, and Mumage it right back at them.

Totally separate note:

Worth adding a 1-1 Sceptile EX d? 'Twould make Mumage's second attack that much beefier, make it altogether more difficult for other decks to maneuver.

[Time for Pain]

wait where are you getting the 100 damage from? also don't add sceptile ex d.

[Dendrobatida]

wait where are you getting the 100 damage from? also don't add sceptile ex d.

That was a random figure I suggested, based on the fact that Gengar has 110 hp. 100 damage would be the maximum it could take, and thus the maximum mumage could do in this deck (unless I ran energy root).

[Time for Pain]

That was a random figure I suggested, based on the fact that Gengar has 110 hp. 100 damage would be the maximum it could take, and thus the maximum mumage could do in this deck (unless I ran energy root).

ok from the way you said it I thought that life drain took your HP away.

[CHRNO]

Don't really matter much to me what I lock in, whether it be a castform, Mew Ex, Flygon EX d (though I'd have to be careful about benched basics), or what have you. I'll just snipe around until I can eliminate it and whatever threat's building behind it. If it's really fargly, I'll life drain it, flip tails, take my 100 damage, and Mumage it right back at them.

Totally separate note:

Worth adding a 1-1 Sceptile EX d? 'Twould make Mumage's second attack that much beefier, make it altogether more difficult for other decks to maneuver.

Ahh very nice if you could work it out with Sceptile EX !!!! Killer Deck!!!!!:thumb:

Why holons Voltorb????

[Ascension]

Been running this on apprentice and it works prooty well (have had to use LM gengar as a proxy, with Dusclops EX as a proxy for Mumage). Of all the versions, the 2-2 smoochum/jynx (thanks, Dom) works BY FAR the best. The thing about Holon WP is that you need to slap down 2 energy on misdreavus to get that to work. That's 3 turns worth of attachment (the initial sleep requires me to pick up the energy), and that's too slow. The fluffy berry, energy root, etc. is so easily windstormable that it's unplayable; I have to focus on only playing one tool at a time, and it still isn't as reliable as mentoring once for automatic free retreat all game long, plus another basic.

Dom, I tried it out without the techish mumage, but it's just too good, especially since Gengar has 110 HP. Anything less than a OHKO and my opponent has to be worried about getting smacked for 80-100 for one energy. It also makes me less concerned about trying for life drain. I can life drain, take a big hit, then switch out, get my KO, and have plenty of damage on Gengar for a Mumage retaliation later.

I tried a 1-1 hypno tech, but it actually wasn't as helpful as I would have liked. It even works at cross purposes with Mumage, since it prevents energy attachment and Mumage relies upon that for damage. If I do decide to drop the 2 Mumage, hypno might very well go back in.

Keep the advice comin',

Jake

What is apprentice and where can i find it? BTW, IMO u should drop two smoochum, 1 windstorm, and p psychic energy and add two castaway and two energy root/fluffy berry.

[Dendrobatida]

Why holons Voltorb????

Most decks that run the holon engine (or, really, mentor) should run a holon's voltorb or magnemite. It is an immediately-attachable energy that the mentor can grab.

[pichu bros. rox]

Play Sceppy ex and Energy Root.

[eriknance]

Pokegym has a scan of Mismagius with a disappointing first attack... not near as good as what we originally thought. :frown:

[Dendrobatida]

Pokegym has a scan of Mismagius with a disappointing first attack... not near as good as what we originally thought. :frown:

Yes, I see that now. Woot! 2 more card slots to mess around with! :/

[(TYranitarFReak)]

u should tech in one gengar LM coz the gengar fits in the damage counter spreading theme.

BTW, cursed powder are must as damage counters are ur friends. try imagine u used a successful life drain last turn, ur opponent wants to OHKO gewngar, but, they have to sac their active.

and do u really think sleep is good? metanite - 2 switch, destiny, 2 w.point, MSN, 2 w.point etc..

i would go for the jolty ex version and spread damage

[Dendrobatida]

and do u really think sleep is good? metanite - 2 switch, destiny, 2 w.point, MSN, 2 w.point etc..


Yes. Yes I do. Sleep with a 25% chance of waking up? Sleep that, if they do wake up or switch, and do KO misdreavus, costs me zero resources and activates my scrambles? It ain't perfect, but neither is anything else out there right now.

[CHRNO]

Yes. Yes I do. Sleep with a 25% chance of waking up? Sleep that, if they do wake up or switch, and do KO misdreavus, costs me zero resources and activates my scrambles? It ain't perfect, but neither is anything else out there right now.


True and well said!!!!

[Mew]

Truely a well thought out deck. I <3 how Gengar has 110 so it is safe from Steelix.
I <3 The concept of a lock and spread damage deck. I pretty much <3 the entire deck, except that you can't ever 1 shot anything if need be.

[Vegeta ss4]

Truely a well thought out deck. I <3 how Gengar has 110 so it is safe from Steelix.
I <3 The concept of a lock and spread damage deck. I pretty much <3 the entire deck, except that you can't ever 1 shot anything if need be.

you could if you have Cursed Stone active but that after the attack...I have thought about this deck a little bit earlier than this deck was posted but my idea was a bit different...about 12 cards different but I like this idea MUCH MUCH MUCH better...LOL
<3ing Gengar!!!!

[Dom]

Misdreavus is such a great card and this is a really effective way to use it. If and when they do break the lock, they'll take a prize, fair enough. But you're hurting them a LOT for it. And ya Gengar having 110 is really nice too.

Doesn't REALLY matter what's locked as they're generally not attacking. Its like Mewlock in that they don't have infinite switches and you'll out-resource them in that respect. Granted they will wake up sometimes but unless they can snipe all you lose is a basic, and in that time you'll most likely have spread at least 8-12 counters.

I just love decks like this.

[Vegeta ss4]

I like Skarmory EX in this deck...You put them asleep and then if they do wake up they have to retreat at a price...and I absolutly love ABSOL in this deck....why not play that card????
Maybe put in a Jolteon* for a beautiful tech...man I am going to make a new list!!!!

[Dom]

Why would they retreat if they woke up?

[Dendrobatida]

I like Skarmory EX in this deck...You put them asleep and then if they do wake up they have to retreat at a price...and I absolutly love ABSOL in this deck....why not play that card????
Maybe put in a Jolteon* for a beautiful tech...man I am going to make a new list!!!!

I'm not liking the skarmory (see Dom's reaction), and absol creates issues when playing with cursed stone. I've thought about Vileplume d or cacturne (autopoison from the bench) for a flip-for-the-ko type backup plan with life drain, but even that gets you into a dangerous bit of diffusal. So far, the best way to run this, in my experience with solo apprentice testing, is the simplest - 4 misdreavus, 4-3-4 gengar line (Though 3-2-3 really isn't that bad, and opens up for more tech), 2-2 jynx, disruption out the wazoo. A 1-1 hypno does help....

[Vegeta ss4]

I'm not liking the skarmory (see Dom's reaction), and absol creates issues when playing with cursed stone. I've thought about Vileplume d or cacturne (autopoison from the bench) for a flip-for-the-ko type backup plan with life drain, but even that gets you into a dangerous bit of diffusal. So far, the best way to run this, in my experience with solo apprentice testing, is the simplest - 4 misdreavus, 4-3-4 gengar line (Though 3-2-3 really isn't that bad, and opens up for more tech), 2-2 jynx, disruption out the wazoo. A 1-1 hypno does help....

I have Giant Stump in my list as well...if played at the right time it is AWESOME!!!!
2 Absol EX and 2 Skarmory EX is what I run....It really works...
I also think that if they woke up they would try to retreat because they(if they were smart enough) powered up somehting else on there bench and they would want to get a ko...this would also help when you would want to play scramble...you would be behind on prizes and you can use Absol to abuse the situation...and hopefully go for the KO with Gengar....thats what I would think would be a nice combo!!!!
IDK though...I havent playtested it and you are prolly right but it is just an idea that I have...when I get the cards I will test it out some more!!!