Magnezone - UFO

[kaworu]

With all major parts to Magnezone soon to be wildly available can this deck become a contender for the top spot along side AMU/Kingdra?

Does it still need Electivire for the energy retrieval? Electivire lvl.x helps against Dusknoir lvl.x. Being electric helps against Kingdra, Metal magnezones have resistance against AMU.

Which combination of the 3 available Magnezones is best?

Conductive quarry?

Thoughts / ideas?

[Ho Megas Alexandros]

Electivire is cool for grabbing an electric energy once per turn, but you might find Rayquaza to be a better source of energy pickup.

Eh, conductive quarry... cool for getting special metals and countering dusknoirs, but still pretty lame

Lightning Magnezone won't even OHKO Kingdra without a Pluspower or Bucks in play. oh AND a lake boundry.

[KazamBolt]

AMU and Kingdra aren't top contenders come Cities. Dusknoir is the new deck. Magnezone's OK but the spreading power of Dusknoir out speeds and out plays it.

[MrMeches]

Heatran LvX is the answer! You discard the :lightning:metal: from Zone LvX, then Heatran's Powr allows you to get them back! Play the Dp Zone and Heatran's :colorless:colorless:colorless:colorless retreat goes away with Magnetize so it is easy to get into play! Zone #5 allows for a faster Setup since it can grab :lightning or :metal: Pokemon and Palkia & Heatran's are Basics so Roseannes grabs both of them for you! IMHO, Zone X just got put on Steroids!

Zone LvX gets to keep its energy, Paralyze and pick its Prey!

Fish

[kaworu]

Wow I never realised it worked for metal pokemon too. Free retreat and energy recycle seem too good. Also running the basic metal heatran means if need be heatran lvl.x can attack.

4 - 2 - 1_1_1_1 Magnezone one of each
2-2 Claydol
2-2 Heatran lvl.x
1 or 2 Rayquaza
4 starter? Sableye?

[Magic_Umbreon]

Wow I never realised it worked for metal pokemon too. Free retreat and energy recycle seem too good. Also running the basic metal heatran means if need be heatran lvl.x can attack.

4 - 2 - 1_1_1_1 Magnezone one of each
2-2 Claydol
2-2 Heatran lvl.x
1 or 2 Rayquaza
4 starter? Sableye?

You run :metal: Heatran so Magnezone can search for it.

[mila]

The hardest match up is against that 4-4 Bronzong decks. I used a Lugia in my Magnezone and Palkia Lv X for that, Lugia is great can OHKO some pokes if it survives some turn. But that was before SF release.

Now the big problem is playing vs Dusknoir, you need:

Magnezone/Lv X active
another Magnezone / Lv X bench
Claydol bench
Electivire bench

and thats all, Magnezone can search for metal pokes with the power, but you cant play it!.

Im running:
3-1-2 (new Magnezone) 1 (free retreat Magnezone) 1 Lv X
2-2-1 Electivire Lv X
1-1 Claydol
1 Unown g
1 Sableye
1 Azelf
1-0-1 tech (im testing empoleon, i also think about Bastiodon for Raichu Lv X)..

Magnezone is a great card!, i hope it can win some tourneys.

[MrMeches]

^ Be hard to Dark Palm though when it is brought up and Paralyzed! Dusknoir is easy to play around.... beat a few in BRs so that won't be much of an issue IMHO. With so much search for Pokemon with the new Zone, Claydol doesn't HAVE to be on the bench... so Palkia can be there.... Electivire can be replaced with Heatran so that is a wash.. don't need to Motor Drive if the Energy never really stays in the Discard!

It will be an interesting match, but ot me everything is 50-50... it all depends on starts and Luck!

Fish

[rhodesia123]

^ Be hard to Dark Palm though when it is brought up and Paralyzed! Dusknoir is easy to play around.... beat a few in BRs so that won't be much of an issue IMHO.the thing is they dont play the duskull-candy-dusknoir until you get your bench to 4. all it takes is 1 dark palm to screw you up.

[revdjweb]

the key to magnezones success/failure is getting a build that is effective with only three on the bench, to avoid the worst of dusknoir and mismagius. considering the myriad of sidekicks which can benefit magnezone (claydol, electivire, blissey, rayquaza, registeel, heatran lvl x, uxie, azelf just off the top of my head) and the fact that there are three very appealing magnezone variants now it is going to be a 'wait and see what works' process.
the only thing i can say for sure is the new lightning magnemite >>> all other magnemites.

[rhodesia123]

really? i wouldve thunk the free retreating magnemite.

[kaworu]

You run :metal: Heatran so Magnezone can search for it.

Thanks captain obvious.

To avoid Dusknoir ruining your day I think the only necessary set up you will need is Magnezone active then benched: Claydol / magnezone / heatran lvl.x

you can tech in a rayquaza but only play it against certain decks or when you need it.

Does the deck need a starter pokemon taking up the bench mid game?

What ratio of the 3 magnezones should be used?

[Ignatious]

Always use 2 DP Magnezone. Always. Free retreat makes any Magnezone deck, it's what allows you to add weird techs such as Palkia and Heatran successfully. Furthermore, it's attack is FAR better than both of it's competition's, allowing for many opportunities to OHKO. The other Zone slot should belong to what is needed more: Search, or acceleration+ special metal retriever. For most builds, I would use The lightning Zone for this last slot, and of course I would add in the LvX.

[Rashad]

The thing is u don't attack with Magnezone Lv.X u attack with a regular magnezone it's almost as if it's a test dummy of some sort LOL

[G-Dog4377]

Of course. You want to keep the Lv.X in play at all costs. It is always better to attack with a different Magnezone if you aren't going to use Cyber Shock.

[plebeianprint]

i finally acquired the new metal magnezone and a heatran x, so i'm revamping this deck. i have high hopes for it, and i think that it can do well.

[ShadowGuard]

One thing to say - Heatran Lv.X in a Magnezone deck is just stupid. Actually some of the most terrible things you can play in this deck. You don't get any benefit from its body, and the power is only useful if you attack with Magnezone Lv.X, which is not your mainhitter (this was already mentioned). Since you can recover energy easily with Super Connectivity, you don't need Heatran. It isn't even able to recover special metal energy, unlike Magnezone SF.

Can't understand how people talk about lack of bench spaces and want to play Heatran at the same time. Aside from the bench factor, it's a basic Lv.X, that means you can get other useful Pokémon with same effort. While even stuff with no synergy like Cresselia Lv.X would still be a lot better than Heatran in Magnezone, we have a a really good tech here - Palkia Lv.X.


Let's just compare.

Palkia Lv.X does nothing while you don't have at least Magnezone DP in play. With Magnezone DP and Magnezone Lv.X you can use its power without any drawback. That's a Gust of Wind every turn!

Heatran Lv.X does nothing while you don't have Magnezone Lv.X in play, therefor you need another Magnezone below it. Conditions to use it are almost the same, while it's effect is pretty low. You can recover two energy in case you attack with Magnezone Lv.X. But do you really need that energy with the powers of Magnezone SF and Magnezone Lv.X? My expeciences with Magnezone have shown that you don't get energy problems once you are set up.

So I hope nobody will talk about Heatran in Magnezone any more. ;)

[vanderbilt_grad]

The one thing that I really like about Heatran in a Zone deck is the type coverage it offers. If you run the metal or promo Heatran it gives you an interesting backup attacker that's murder on the various grass decks.

[MrMeches]

One thing to say - Heatran Lv.X in a Magnezone deck is just stupid. Actually some of the most terrible things you can play in this deck. You don't get any benefit from its body, and the power is only useful if you attack with Magnezone Lv.X, which is not your mainhitter (this was already mentioned). Since you can recover energy easily with Super Connectivity, you don't need Heatran. It isn't even able to recover special metal energy, unlike Magnezone SF.

Can't understand how people talk about lack of bench spaces and want to play Heatran at the same time. Aside from the bench factor, it's a basic Lv.X, that means you can get other useful Pokémon with same effort. While even stuff with no synergy like Cresselia Lv.X would still be a lot better than Heatran in Magnezone, we have a a really good tech here - Palkia Lv.X.


Let's just compare.

Palkia Lv.X does nothing while you don't have at least Magnezone DP in play. With Magnezone DP and Magnezone Lv.X you can use its power without any drawback. That's a Gust of Wind every turn!

Heatran Lv.X does nothing while you don't have Magnezone Lv.X in play, therefor you need another Magnezone below it. Conditions to use it are almost the same, while it's effect is pretty low. You can recover two energy in case you attack with Magnezone Lv.X. But do you really need that energy with the powers of Magnezone SF and Magnezone Lv.X? My expeciences with Magnezone have shown that you don't get energy problems once you are set up.

So I hope nobody will talk about Heatran in Magnezone any more. ;)


My list that gave me 3 Top Cuts ran t2 Mag X and I used it for my Main attacker... just ask the people I knocked out of the cut with it during swiss if Mag X doesnt attack! Heatran X is a FANTASTIC tech in here do to being able to consistently Paralyze with no "real" discard! Who cares you don't use the Body, Zone doesn't need the body, but keeping those energy in play after Paralyzing a turn to setup a ko for later on is amazgin! Palkia lets you get rid of Claydol wiht a oneshot of 2 energy and not 3 with no Draw back after Heatran is in play! And before oyu mention that it takes to long to setup 3 LvX Pokes, again ask the people I used mine against how quick they setup!

It still works and it is solid! WOuld love ot play mine against yours and see which comes on top! I can work around where your SPecial Metals with Palkia and can use Heatran LvX ot KO you for the Mirror!

So Heatran and Palkia have a home in some peoples list.. no need ot bash it if you don't like it... just use a little more descretion instead of telling someone it doesnt work! It might not work for you, but we are all not you! My style might not work for you, but you aren't me... so that is why this game is so AWESOME! We can experiment with so many different ideas instead of a stale environment!:thumb::wink:

Thanks and Remember... SOTG! ALWAYS!

[G-Dog4377]

I have actually tested that on a Sceptile/Torterra deck. It is definitely a plus to have that in those specific matchups. However, it is not helpful to have the fire type coverage in other matchups. Besides that, Palkia Lv.X benefits tremendously in just about every matchup applicable. It is not the fact that Heatran Lv.X is bad in a Magnezone Lv.X deck. It is pretty decent. It is the fact that Palkia Lv.X is just so much better than almost everything else in every single matchup.

EDIT: Got a post right above mine here I must comment on. I like your view of the game with differing styles being able to come out. Magnezone Lv.X is so amazing in the fact that it can further show that than any other card in the format. MrMeches, do you play on Redshark? I'd love to run a few matchups of my Magnezone Lv.X against yours sometime.

[ShadowGuard]

@ MrMeches

I didn't intend to bash anyone, I just don't want you to play uneffective cards. A discussion board is there to tell your opinion, and this is mine about Heatran. Maybe my kind of expression and the last sentence were a bit harsh, but therefore I put a smiley behind it. =)

But now back to the topic, why do you need Heatran to save energy if you can recover it with Super Connectivity? Even Electivire SW is easier to build up and helps more.

Of course Heatran can be useful in some situations. I could play Potion, this is also very useful in some situations. But you have to look what's better for your deck, since you have only 60 deck slots, 3-5 bench slots and limited setup capacities. And if you could have things like Palkia Lv.X, Electivire, 1-0-1 Dusknoir or other stuff with similar efforts, why choose Heatran? Magnezone doesn't have energy problems with the new one from Stormfront. The facts that you can switch around your energy and attach up to 2 each turn are enough, you don't need to save energy, but rather add some additional abilities to your deck.

[MrMeches]

@ MrMeches

I didn't intend to bash anyone, I just don't want you to play uneffective cards. A discussion board is there to tell your opinion, and this is mine about Heatran. Maybe my kind of expression and the last sentence were a bit harsh, but therefore I put a smiley behind it. =)

But now back to the topic, why do you need Heatran to save energy if you can recover it with Super Connectivity? Even Electivire SW is easier to build up and helps more.

Of course Heatran can be useful in some situations. I could play Potion, this is also very useful in some situations. But you have to look what's better for your deck, since you have only 60 deck slots, 3-5 bench slots and limited setup capacities. And if you could have things like Palkia Lv.X, Electivire, 1-0-1 Dusknoir or other stuff with similar efforts, why choose Heatran? Magnezone doesn't have energy problems with the new one from Stormfront. The facts that you can switch around your energy and attach up to 2 each turn are enough, you don't need to save energy, but rather add some additional abilities to your deck.

Sure I get that.. but saying it is uneffective is exerting your opinion on someone. Heatran is very effective in my Zone list as I don't want to put Damage counters on my own pokes! I ran Electivire for 2 BRs and Heatran, IMHO sets up just as easily for me! This is my point.. what works for you may not work for someone else, but saying it is ineffective is a bit strong.

Heatran is also a very nice counter to the Mirror match! There are uses for it and it also depends on how you play your Zone decks! My zone focuses on the Damage spread techique with paralysis while I am building the CLeaner on the bench! Some use the str8 forward hitter, ssu, wash repeat!

GL with yours, hope we can play head to head!

Fish

[plebeianprint]

One thing to say - Heatran Lv.X in a Magnezone deck is just stupid. Actually some of the most terrible things you can play in this deck.

thanks. i really appreciate it when people that don't know me, or haven't played my deck call my post stupid. it's very open minded of you. there are many styles of play, and just because one is different than yours doesn't make it stupid.

and yes. i attack with magnezone x. i will assume that is another stupid move on my part.

[baby mario]

If any deck can be played in different ways, it's Magnezone. There are 3 very playable Stage 2s (and another on the way), plus a terrific LV X. Too much choice, if anything.

Palkia and Heatran both bring something to the deck. People need to try both for themselves and find out which one works for them in their area. Anyone who won't even try a card cos someone on teh internets says it's 'bad' is just hurting themselves.

I still prefer Palkia though ;-).

[gallade]

dusknoir kills this

your bench
mag-clay-tech-mag-mag
then
tech-clay-mag

[ShadowGuard]

dusknoir kills this

your bench
mag-clay-tech-mag-mag
then
tech-clay-mag

Where's the problem?

Active: Magnezone
Bench: Magnezone, Claydol, Palkia/Magnezone/Starter

[gallade]

sorry if i was not clear but i was sarcastic and was showing that it can stand up to it

[Ignatious]

I also dislike Heatran. You simply don't have room for it in your play area. One can easily Cyber shock every turn with SC, a power that should be utilized to retrieve special metal energy and to accelerate even before you start to discard energy. Furthermore, Dusknoir does not cut any slack. At all. Everything needs to have a a purpose on your bench, and a good one. Heatran is easily replaceable, and therefore it should be replaced.

[SPARTA]

The problem I see with Magnezone is its low damage output. Seriously, its Lv X maxes out at 80 damage for a stage three. That means you need something to back it up with, which means more slowing down and more bench space.
It could be good, but eh, I'm not holding my breath on it.

[gallade]

dp mag is main attacker.

[G-Dog4377]

It is good that someone mentioned that. With Magnezone Lv.X, it is not necessarily about the damage output. In fact, it is those things you do back it up with that make a Magnezone Lv.X deck. The fact that Electric Trans allows you to effectively just about any Lightning or Metal Pokemon gives you more options than typical decks if anything. Magnezone Lv.X's low damage output is definitely not a hindrance by any means.

[SPARTA]

dp mag is main attacker.

And you need 6-7 energy on you to be dealing decent damage for a stage two, and the fact that for the same amount of energy Blissey only deals 10 less damage (if you have one in the discard) means using DP Mag is just =/. Not to mention that also means you either need to go without search (You are slower), without energy cycling (DP Mag won't be doing much anyway), or without the lv x (Now you can't even move your energy around).

Magnezone needs another pokemon to back it up in order to not remain a pathetic waste of space IMO.

It is good that someone mentioned that. With Magnezone Lv.X, it is not necessarily about the damage output. In fact, it is those things you do back it up with that make a Magnezone Lv.X deck. The fact that Electric Trans allows you to effectively just about any Lightning or Metal Pokemon gives you more options than typical decks if anything. Magnezone Lv.X's low damage output is definitely not a hindrance by any means.

You have the same damage output as Kricketune. That isn't a hinderance? Where exactly are you playing that a stage three who deals 80 damage and is utterly mocked by warp point (which almost every deck I see plays) is good? Energy Trans is nice, but by the time you get out Magnezone Lv X odds are either your opponent is already setup, or you get one shot with him and thats it (should you opt for him early game).

I did infact test Magnezone, if you get the searcher T2 and the Lv X T3 and are able to setup the energy accelerator the next turn, your opponent is in for a WORLD of pain. But if you don't, Magnezone's only real option is... BAM UR PARALYZED. Any deck that can level up, can use Dawn Stadium, hits the bench, or uses Warp Point can easily get around this. Its not so much a bad idea as it just isn't effective enough.

[Ardoptres]

Since when did a Stage 2 have to do 110-120 in in order to be "dealing decent damage"??

[SPARTA]

Since when did a Stage 2 have to do 110-120 in in order to be "dealing decent damage"??

Find me another stage two this entire format who was good and needed 3 or more energy cards to attack.
You will find that they deal comparable damage (for example, Luxray).

[Ardoptres]

So there's Luxray.. What else? Besides, usually there isn't a difference between doing 80 and 100 KOing-wise.

[SPARTA]

So there's Luxray.. What else? Besides, usually there isn't a difference between doing 80 and 100 KOing-wise.

MOD EDIT FOR PROFANITY
Little difference between 80 damage and 100 damage? Name me ONE deck that averages 80 damage every turn, with a stage two, that needs 3 energy, this format that is good and sees play.
ONE DECK
JUST ONE

Failure to do so and more of a pathetic argument will simply result the revelation of the fact that you know you are wrong, and are simply trolling like a silly nitwit.

I'm waiting, although there is every possibility that the mods will fly into an uproar at someone using the censors they decided to enact and ban me despite the fact those are in fact astrix, not censored words, so if you don't see me reply someone had a hissie fit.

[Rainbowgym]

Find me another stage two this entire format who was good and needed 3 or more energy cards to attack.
You will find that they deal comparable damage (for example, Luxray).


Blaziken 80 for 3
Empoleon 50 + XX depending on bench needs 3 nrg
Garchomp 70 for 3 (and most times failing to do 110 because weakness can be taken away)


Luxray was not able to do continues high damage (100) since you have to discard and there was no way of consistent adding nrg towards it. Unless you used INDEED zone and electivire, or lucky pick ups.

That said, why should Magnezone deal 80, most times I went for 2 x 70.
Also you seem to forget that special Metals reduce damage done to Zone which makes it survive 1 turn longer most times. This gives you an advantage.
There is no need to put 6-7 nrg under 1 Magnezone, actually that would be plain stupid to do.

For the coming (or current) format so including SF I don't know if Magnezone will stand.

[G-Dog4377]

Magnezone needs another pokemon to back it up in order to not remain a pathetic waste of space IMO.

You have the same damage output as Kricketune. That isn't a hinderance? Where exactly are you playing that a stage three who deals 80 damage and is utterly mocked by warp point (which almost every deck I see plays) is good? Energy Trans is nice, but by the time you get out Magnezone Lv X odds are either your opponent is already setup, or you get one shot with him and thats it (should you opt for him early game).

I did infact test Magnezone, if you get the searcher T2 and the Lv X T3 and are able to setup the energy accelerator the next turn, your opponent is in for a WORLD of pain. But if you don't, Magnezone's only real option is... BAM UR PARALYZED. Any deck that can level up, can use Dawn Stadium, hits the bench, or uses Warp Point can easily get around this. Its not so much a bad idea as it just isn't effective enough.
Not to say you are being ignorant, but I believe you need to read my post again. Magnezone itself does not make a Magnezone deck. It is the combination of one or more partner Pokemon you include that make a Magnezone deck. These include but are not limited to: Electivire, Luxray, Ampharos, Bastiodon, Palkia Lv.X, Heatran Lv.X, Blissey, etc. They provide the options. Magnezone itself has many, many options, but you are right that they are not very accessible during the earliest stages of a match. Not every Magnezone deck will have totally limited options on the third turn of a match either. There are things you can do to alleviate this.


Little difference between 80 damage and 100 damage? Name me ONE deck that averages 80 damage every turn, with a stage two, that needs 3 energy, this format that is good and sees play.
ONE DECK
JUST ONE

Failure to do so and more of a pathetic argument will simply result the revelation of the fact that you know you are wrong, and are simply trolling like a silly nitwit.

I'm waiting, although there is every possibility that the mods will fly into an uproar at someone using the censors they decided to enact and ban me despite the fact those are in fact astrix, not censored words, so if you don't see me reply someone had a hissie fit.
Perhaps this is out of place, but wow. That comes off as highly offensive, and it isn't even true. I will explain Ardoptres' logic behind his statement first. Most decks have Pokemon with 130 or 140 HP. Sometimes less. What Ardoptres was saying is that if you hit a 130 HP Pokemon with an attack for 100 damage, it is not knocked out. Same thing if you hit it for 80 damage. When you hit it again with either, then it is knocked out. So over two turns, you either do a total of 200 damage or 160 damage, and either one is an affirmative knock out on any Pokemon in any viable deck we have seen this format. So in the end, there was no difference between dealing 80 damage a turn and dealing 100 damage a turn, because either way, the end result is a knock out.

How can you accuse someone of trolling when you have to put a disclaimer in your post that mods will probably delete it for innapropriate language? Ardoptres had a perfectly reasonable and appropriate post; in my estimation, your post is a ridiculous overreaction and very rude.

[Ardoptres]

I recall Magnezone seeing play at BRs. Lol.

And yah, that was what i mean G-Dog.

[SPARTA]

You know, I just looked back on my replies to this thread.
...And I'm just like WOW, what the heck was I on.

Sorry G-Dog, my bad Ardoptres, no idea why I typed that s offensively.
I'll rephrase that so its not such a pile of MOD EDIT: PROFANITY tomorrow.

[G-Dog4377]

I recall Magnezone seeing play at BRs. Lol.

And yah, that was what i mean G-Dog.There weren't many that had faith in it at the time. I was going to go to one, but I was unable to. So my friend took my Magnezone deck and went alone and ended up getting 2nd place. It was still amazing before Stormfront. People just didn't seem to want to run with it when there were more Magnezones about to come out. I suppose people thought that because there were two yet to be released there was something innately lacking in the current one available that made it inadequate. That wasn't the case.

[Call Me Dusknoir]

@ MrMeches

I didn't intend to bash anyone, I just don't want you to play uneffective cards. A discussion board is there to tell your opinion, and this is mine about Heatran. Maybe my kind of expression and the last sentence were a bit harsh, but therefore I put a smiley behind it. =)

But now back to the topic, why do you need Heatran to save energy if you can recover it with Super Connectivity? Even Electivire SW is easier to build up and helps more.

Of course Heatran can be useful in some situations. I could play Potion, this is also very useful in some situations. But you have to look what's better for your deck, since you have only 60 deck slots, 3-5 bench slots and limited setup capacities. And if you could have things like Palkia Lv.X, Electivire, 1-0-1 Dusknoir or other stuff with similar efforts, why choose Heatran? Magnezone doesn't have energy problems with the new one from Stormfront. The facts that you can switch around your energy and attach up to 2 each turn are enough, you don't need to save energy, but rather add some additional abilities to your deck.

Because connectivity only brings back one energy and it pings you for 10, where heatran nabs both back for no dmg. But I do agree that Heatran would not be my top pick in a MZone deck, unless I was indeed playing T2 Mag.LvX Then he is awsome. :3

[SPARTA]

Because connectivity only brings back one energy and it pings you for 10, where heatran nabs both back for no dmg. But I do agree that Heatran would not be my top pick in a MZone deck, unless I was indeed playing T2 Mag.LvX Then he is awsome. :3

And since T2 Magnezone Lv X is terrible, we can conclude that Heatran is bad