View Full Version : Should Judges Be Allowed To Help All The 10- Players At A Gym Challenge?
07/28/2004, 12:02 AM
At Gym Challenge one of my friends was competting in the 10- age group and before the tournament began the judges went around the room telling all the players and parents of players in that age group that the judges would be helping all the players in the 10- age group. Being one of the only 2 people from Nevada at Californias second Gym Challenge I feel that the judges did not feel as inclined to give her as much help as the players who lived in California since it seems they always made sure her opponent made the right move. First off, all I thought it was against the rules for any player to recieve outside advice from anyone on how they should play there turn. Since when can judges coach? Secondly, if they were basically playing for them then how is this helping them become a stronger player? If you helped them at Gym Challenge then why not help them at Stadium Challenge and then even Worlds? If you do your only lifting them higher and higher for a huge fall when they turn 11 and join the next age group were there is no judges coaching you, even though they shouldn't have been doing it there to begin with. If anyone else would like to comment about what thought about the event feel free to post here, or if you were at a similar event were the same or similar coaching problem accured, you are also welcome to post here.
07/28/2004, 05:51 AM
There should be no "coaching" of any sort to any age group. Doesn't matter if it is parents, judges, LLs, TOs, etc. It is ag'st any and all tournament rules. The time for teaching, coaching, etc is at home, in the leagues, at demo days, etc.
07/28/2004, 06:04 AM
For 10- I've given extra attention to to make sure proper game mechanics are followed, but as far as advising what the "right move" is to make, that would be over the line.
Reminding a player to activate their Berry, when it's mandatory, that would be OK.
07/28/2004, 07:28 AM
Which CA Gym Challenge are you talking about?
07/28/2004, 07:56 AM
Help with Shuffling - OK.
Help with game play...not OK.
This is not a minor event. This is a GYM challenge, there is a $2,000 prize on the line.
You want help, go to league, go to a PreRelease and play in the starter deck event.
If the player had already "lost" and wanted to play again with help, then a gym leader, or other player could help.
This brings up an interesting point...should there be a "teaching clinic" for new players before major events? To make sure they know the rules and gameplay?
I say yes. Especially for City Challenges. We do want to grow these games and expose new players to the game, especially at the competitive level.
I believe that most players with a deck in their hands and an opponent can be able to play the game by themselves after three game. The first game they need a lot of help, and explanation. The second game, they start to catch on and get the rhythym, the third game they are doing it mostly on their own.
How long does this take? An hour and a half with standard decks, but use a "teaching deck" of 30 cards, and you can get this done in under an hour. There are teaching deck recipies available for every set from Ruby/Sapphire to Aqua/Magma. I prefer the Ruby/Sapphire sets myself.
What this does is gets the kids and parents used to playing the game with half decks, and then in game 3, switch to their "own" deck so they get a practice game, and then off they go! There is still some learning to be done,,,but it does work...I currently have 16 half decks made (Scott I need those back) and will be using them this tourney season.
07/28/2004, 08:23 AM
the trainer kit was made just for that reason M45. To teach new people how to play with a basic deck. The deck ain't that good, lol. But it works for a new player. Basic, non tech cards are in there. Good rule book, A very very (possible overly) descriptive playmat. Damage counters, and even a cool new coin!
No need to construct decks to teach new people *unless you're trying to teach a specific thing of the game*... just use the trainer kit.
07/28/2004, 09:08 AM
I demo'd with the Trainer Kit in the NOA booth the first three days of San Diego Comic-Con. It's great: no status effects, no weakness/resistance to deal with...just the basics. Draw a card, add energy, attack; evolve, pay retreat. One color of energy per deck, and four trainers; perfect for teaching a new player the fundamentals of the game. Plus the Latias/Latios cards are very cool :)
Back on topic: I'm still quite curious about this alleged 'help' for the -10s at "a CA GC". if Dragonstar is talking about the San Diego CG, frankly, that is BULL.
I was on the judge staff, and the only 'help' -10s got was given to anyone who needed it: shuffling their deck, or having a card read...as in, an explanation of what the card does. We TELL the kids to raise their hands if they need help understanding what a card they've never seen and have trouble reading on their own, says; every -10 judge ends up doing this.
Some kids have never seen some of the complicated (stadium, trainer) cards, and many do not as yet have the reading skills to be able to comprehend such cards on their own. Should we penalize a 6 y/o with first grade reading skills by letting them 'sink or swim'? Sounds like that's what you're advocating...:nonono:
But TELLING them what to do in the game situation? Nope, other than reminding them to pick up their supporter at the end of the turn, or reminding them to present their deck to be cut after a search...and showing favoritism, as in "the judges did not feel as inclined to give her as much help as the players who lived in California"?
Uhh, no: any child who raised their hand had their question(s) answered...and frankly, I don't know WHERE any child comes from, unless I already personally know them...and I defer to other judges in those cases.
Just STOP with the 'I heard this..', 'I feel that..' and 'my friend says that...'; unless you were THERE and have a specific incident to discuss. Quit slandering those of us who: 1) work DAMNED HARD putting on these events for others to enjoy and 2) give up our own chances to play in premier events in order to make sure there are an adequate number of competent judges on staff.
HJ, SD City Championship
Judge, CA State Championship
Judge, SD Gym Challenge
-10 Area Judge, West Coast Stadium Challenge
07/28/2004, 01:42 PM
It was at the San Diego GC and all I'm going to say to that comment is the judges did more then you say.
07/28/2004, 01:50 PM
Well, if you can't give details, then let's drop it.
As stated above, baseless accusations are not welcome.
It's just mudslinging.
If you (or this fellow Nevadan) has an issue, they need to bring it up, not a third party that's not going to even give an example.
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