Anti-speed decks?

[Renzo]

So I'm trying to make a deck for next season (MD-on). My sister is using Rampardos, and all my attempts to win against the deck has been in vain. I haven't faced one, but I'm sure Kingdra is the same thing. So, how would one counter these T2 donk decks and be able to set up and go for the kill?

[baby mario]

Mr Mime MT is the obvious counter to cheap attacking Pokemon.

It isn't for sure that next season will be MD-on, btw.

[vanderbilt_grad]

Against Rampardos you really only have two options, #1 outspeed them or #2 play something grass that hits their weakness hard. I'm sure that someone will post here saying that Rampardos is not consistent and that you can just outlast it ... but that's not going to hold true every game.

Kingdra is actually a bit easier. You can limit spread with stuff like Abomasnow or Manectric. It has trouble with stuff like Gigas that heals itself. It's actually a bit faster and more consistent than Rampardos most of the time though.

And Mr. Mime does NOT work against Rampardos. Rampardos' body lets his attacks go right though.

[Renzo]

Hmm... I played a variety of decks against my sister's Rampardos, and she won 9.9/10 times. What do you mean by inconsistent?

[GengarPwns]

Maybe Speedrill or Speed Leafeon or Machamp/Palkia

[baby mario]

And Mr. Mime does NOT work against Rampardos. Rampardos' body lets his attacks go right though.

Ooops, I forgot about that :redface:

It does work against Kingdra though.

Rampardos is *supposedly* inconsistent because it is a Fossil. Fossil Pokemon are harder to get out because Trainer cards are not as easily searchable as normal Basics. They also make for sucky starting Pokemon.

[Godzfirefly]

They also make for sucky starting Pokemon.

I disagree about that...

When I ran Omastar tech, I never had a problem when starting with Helix Fossil. If I had a Call Energy, it was even better. Just drop a Call Energy on the fossil, pull up a couple bench pokes, let them deal the 10-40 damage to the fossil (assuming i'm not playing a T1 Machamp or whaterver.) Then just discard it and the Call Energy away to the discard pile. Fossil Excavator can conveniently pull from either the discard or the deck, so it hurts very little to have it in there.

And, Dome Fossil is better, since it's the focus of the deck. Just drop the fighting energy on it and it's Cranidos, a pokemon that is reasonably donk-resistant. And, since Rampardos is the focus of the deck, rather than a tech, you'll be sure to have 4 Excavators so that, if you'd rather set up on the bench, you can still feel free to discard the Active Fossil to move up the Benched Rampardos. Much better than having to Night-Maintenance then search. And certainly better than trying to rely on SSU's flippy-ness.

[Dennis Hawk]

Dialga G + Skuntank G = Anti-Rampardos. Just swarm Dialgas and lock the trainers/stadiums until their Rampa gets KO'd via poison.
Unown G = Anti-Machamp.
Mr. Mime = Anti-Kingdra.

Gastly = Anti-Rare Candy.
Dialga G = Anti-Rare Candy AND BTS.

They keep getting harder and harder to counter though... Shedinja would be interesting agaisnt Rampa - 80 dmg to self from KO.

[DarC]

^^Dome Fossil goes to Kabuto, not Cranidos. Cranidos's fossil is the crappy Skull fossil that has you flip for damage if you get hit.

[mario1]

So I'm trying to make a deck for next season (MD-on). My sister is using Rampardos, and all my attempts to win against the deck has been in vain. I haven't faced one, but I'm sure Kingdra is the same thing. So, how would one counter these T2 donk decks and be able to set up and go for the kill?

Four Call Energy is your answer. Seriously it has saved me many times against Kingdra, Machamp and Rampardos.:thumb:

[Austino]

gastly SF destroys speed decks with it's first attack Pitch Dark, which prevents your opponent from playing trainers (rare candy, luxury ball, poke drawer +, etc) . This gives you plenty of time to set up while they are stuck playing just supporters.

[ryanvergel]

Rampardos is pretty fast, but slower than Kingdra and less consistent because it comes from a fossil.

Same HP, but rampardos damages itself and has a much worse late-game because it lacks spread and a nice OHKO move that DOESN'T damage itself.

Rampardos is cute at best.

How to counter them? Outplay them? They sort of have damage caps that aren't high and can almost never OHKO a main attacker. Play accordingly.

[prodigal_fanboy]

Rampardos is pretty fast, but slower than Kingdra and less consistent because it comes from a fossil.

Same HP, but rampardos damages itself and has a much worse late-game because it lacks spread and a nice OHKO move that DOESN'T damage itself.

Rampardos is cute at best.

How to counter them? Outplay them? They sort of have damage caps that aren't high and can almost never OHKO a main attacker. Play accordingly.

Ryanvergel ftw.

Just send up chump blockers, in essence, while you charge a main attacker.

[brick11]

with a fast shaymin/beautifly/torterra/sceppy or any of that it is quite easy with 4 energy and a bucks or pluspower a beautifly can OHKO a pardos.

[Renzo]

So, it sounds to me that Gastly is the general anti-speed guy. Would running 4 Gastly as starters do any good?

[Ariadosman]

Convince her that Scramble Energy is still legal and run four!

[SPARTA]

Run something that doesn't die from a single Rampardos attack and you can beat them.

[Renzo]

The problem with that is that Rampardos can 2hko anything. And they're usually being swarmed. Even if you survive a hit, you'll get KO'd next turn, which will stop you from setting up.

[SPARTA]

The problem with that is that Rampardos can 2hko anything. And they're usually being swarmed. Even if you survive a hit, you'll get KO'd next turn, which will stop you from setting up.

A number of pokemon can THKO anyone, fortunately Rampardos is left with 90 hp after he kills something, AKA very easy to kill, since any deck that can't do at least 80 damage per turn is rarely competitive, baring spread decks of course.

[Renzo]

I see...

But the problem is surviving long enough to be able to set up and actually do 90 damage.

[SPARTA]

One could argue then that Kingdra is far more broken, seeing as how they hit the bench and can THKO anyone as well.
Kingdra is also more consistent due to not being a fossil, and also just as fast. Last time I checked Kingdra had not yet destroyed the planet, despite being better, so Rampardos (who lacks the ability to setup KO's on the bench) would hardly be more threatening.

[Renzo]

Hardly threatening? And yet nobody has provided a foolproof counter to speed decks? So how do you guys do it anyways? Just pray for good luck?

[SPARTA]

Leafeon Lv X is a foolproof counter, as is any grass deck that can survive a direct hit and THKO (for stage one decks) or OHKO (for stage two or stage 1 lv x's) for 2-3 energy cards.

Kingdra is a foolproof counter.

A G deck based around Toxicroak is a good counter if it runs plenty of stadiums and has Crobat G, since you can take them down after 1 KO and wait for the limited search for fossils to bite them in the butt.

Gallade is a foolproof counter, he will run out of Prizes to flip after killing two of your Rampardos's at full hp (assuming they have a pp/Crobat G/Poketurn with each attack, relatively simple conditions) and only die after two attacks from Rampardos. Gallade is also easily powered up after two turns with Regirock out and a Stark, meaning he is slower than you, but can catch up quite quickly as well.

Obviously luck plays a major part of beating a speed deck, since any deck will lose with a lone Uxie start going first vs Skull Fossil, Candy, Ramp or Horsea, Candy, Kingdra, Crobat/PP. So yeah, you OBVIOUSLY pray that you don't get bad luck. Fortunatly, most decks that aren't speed decks deal more damage than Rampardos does, and can easily send up Uxie's and Azelf to the chop shop while they setup. Will the early prizes hurt? Oh yeah. Will payback be a ***** once they setup? you better believe it.

[Renzo]

So most speed decks fall to grass types, Kingdra, Toxicroak, and Gallade. I'm not so sure how Toxicroak and Skunktank work.

Anyways, I see the only way to fight against speed decks is to outspeed them or stall for time.

[SPARTA]

So most speed decks fall to grass types, Kingdra, Toxicroak, and Gallade. I'm not so sure how Toxicroak and Skunktank work.


I explained how it worked, which part didn't you get?

Anyways, I see the only way to fight against speed decks is to outspeed them or stall for time.

...DUH. How did you think you beat them, you are either faster or slower, and you either stall while you build up, or you outrun and beat down.

[nnaann]

Zangoose and pull out a dol, or Gastly are your best bets. Call energy is a good idea.