Still no help on Lumineon/Miasma Valley

[Magnechu]

Even with 4 expansions of rulings questions and answers, still no answer to if you use Lumineon's power and hit a basic, does it take the 20 from Miasma Valley? I will guarantee this will come up at an event, with decks such as Dusknoir/Lumineon now playing Miasma Valley.

It could really go either way, I'm not sure.

[EeveeLover]

Looking at the text on both cards, I would say that it would take the damage, as it was played from the hand to the bench. That is the requirement on Miasma. Nothing is said regarding the effect of attacks / powers / bodies, just that it is played from the hand to the bench.

But, I have been wrong before.

Also, not 4 sets, try max of 2. SF / PL.

[Magnechu]

I meant there were 4 posts pertaining to Platinum last night/this morning.

And yes I agree with you, but who knows.

[EeveeLover]

There is always the possibility that the Rules Team has to check with PCL (Japanese Rules Team) to see how the cards interact there so they can give the proper ruling.

[NoPoke]

Miasma Valley says whenever any player puts a basic Pokemon from his or her hand into play

If I use Lumineon to put a card from my opponents hand into play it is not my opponent that is putting their card into play nor is it coming from my hand. As written I'd rule that there is no damage from Miasma Valley.

[evil psyduck]

Miasma Valley says whenever any player puts a basic Pokemon from his or her hand into play

If I use Lumineon to put a card from my opponents hand into play it is not my opponent that is putting their card into play nor is it coming from my hand. As written I'd rule that there is no damage from Miasma Valley.

But it is coming from your opponents hand.

[Chairman Kaga]

EeveeLover wins:


http://www.pokemon-card.com/faq/answer.php/faq/4894/

Q: 場にスタジアム「瘴気の谷」が出ているとき、ネオラントのポケパワー「ヒレのかがやき」を使って草または超 ポケモン以外をベンチに出した場合、スタジアム「瘴気の谷」の効果でダメージカウンターを2個のせることは できますか？

A: はい、できます。
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Q: When "Miasma Valley" is in play, and I use Lumineon's "Fin Luster" Poke-POWER to put a Pokemon other than :grass: or :psychic: onto their bench, is it possible to then place 2 damage counters on it with the effect of "Miasma Valley"?

A: Yes, it is possible.


The card is coming into play from their hand. It doesn't matter how. This is consistent with rulings on Magmortar SW Flame Body and energy attachment powers.

[NoPoke]

shrug. The English could be better then, as written it ties the damage to the player putting one of their own cards into play.:(

Whenever a basic Pokemon other than G or P is put into play from either players hand place two damage counters on that Pokemon.

Would have been better.

=======
I don't understand the reference to Magmortar's Flame Body:pbody: there isn't any way that I can make my opponent attach an energy from thier hand to their Magmortar during my turn.

[Sunscorch]

shrug. The English could be better then, as written it ties the damage to the player putting one of their own cards into play.:(

Whenever a basic Pokemon other than G or P is put into play from either players hand place two damage counters on that Pokemon.

Would have been better.

I agree, Ian, I interpreted it the same way as you until I read the ruling.
It is confusing.

[Chairman Kaga]

Retranslating Miasma Valley, I see there is no condition that the player owning the card has to be the one that initiates the play of it.

The translation below is as follows:

Original Japanese text
Romanized Japanese text
Literal translation (original Japanese word order maintained, keep in mind that Japanese sentence order is generally subject-object-verb -- "I you love" instead of "I love you")
My personal translation


おたがいのプレイヤーは、「たねポケモン（草または超ポケモンは、のぞく）」を、手札からベンチに出すとき 、そのポケモンにダメージカウンターを2個のせる。

otagai no pureiya^ ha ,( tane pokemon ( kusa mataha chou pokemon ha , nozoku )) wo , tefuda kara benchi ni dasu toki , sono pokemon ni dame^jikaunta^ wo 2 ko noseru .

mutual player, (seed pokemon (grass or psychic pokemon, exclude)) , hand from bench put out occasion, that pokemon damage counter 2 place on

Whenever either player puts a Basic Pokemon (except :grass: or :psychic: type) from their hand onto their bench, put 2 damage counters on that Pokemon.


"seed" (tane) Pokemon is the Japanese term for Basic Pokemon.

[Sunscorch]

Retranslating Miasma Valley, I see there is no condition that the player owning the card has to be the one that initiates the play of it.

The translation below is as follows:

Original Japanese text
Romanized Japanese text
Literal translation (original Japanese word order maintained, keep in mind that Japanese sentence order is generally subject-object-verb -- "I you love" instead of "I love you")
My personal translation



"seed" (tane) Pokemon is the Japanese term for Basic Pokemon.

I think the key part is "from their hand", which, to me, implies that the player initiating the play must own the hand the pokemon is coming from, in order for it to take damage.
I don't see anything like that in the original Japanese, and I think it's just something we westerners automatically add in for convenience in translation.

Regardless, the ruling is perfectly clear :tongue:

[evil psyduck]

So now we know in time for states.

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=93065