Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Ash and his competence

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Cresskill, New Jersey, to the right
    Posts
    297

    Ash and his competence

    It seems that in every generation in the anime, Ash doesn't have easy battles with anyone. I think it may have something to do with his age, but I'm not sure.
    Training and playing games for a long time.

  2. #2
    Its because every season they can't start him off as a good trainer as he was last season, because then the suspense is all gone. There would be less and less reason to watch the next episode if you know he is going to win all the time.

    He also should have aged to like 18-19 at least by now, but they keep him 10-11 so that kids relate to him better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shino Bug Master
    Yo dawg, i'm happy for you, and i'mma let you Finnish, but I just gotta say, The US has the best joke decks ever.
    Yes, this is the best post ever. | Team Rogue | My Anime List
    Pre-XVII Metagame Analysis | Comprehensive Werewolf Compendium! | My Werewolf Farewell

  3. #3
    Forum Moderator Regis_Neo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    6,355
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    24
    ...Ash has never been competent. He's always been the idiot hero for lack of better words, and he regresses every new arc too. Otherwise, he would have very well been champion by now with his Pokemon.

    Personally I think it's time to ditch Ash already, let's get in a new hero/heroine and their story. BW was the best chance to do that since it was aimed at a slightly older audience than usual (just check the trainer visuals), but they didn't...not to late to, but yeah...and if it hasn't been said enough time, all the team rocket gags are just depressingly, mind-numbingly stupid at this point.
    Shameless self-promotion:

    Interested in the VGC? Want to be the best you can be? Check out my VGC Teambuilding guide here:

    http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=158669

  4. #4
    TheRolesWePlay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    The place where souls go to die
    Posts
    1,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Regis_Neo View Post
    ...Ash has never been competent. He's always been the idiot hero for lack of better words, and he regresses every new arc too. Otherwise, he would have very well been champion by now with his Pokemon.

    Personally I think it's time to ditch Ash already, let's get in a new hero/heroine and their story. BW was the best chance to do that since it was aimed at a slightly older audience than usual (just check the trainer visuals), but they didn't...not to late to, but yeah...and if it hasn't been said enough time, all the team rocket gags are just depressingly, mind-numbingly stupid at this point.
    He has competence...not often, but it does happen. Mainly at the end of a season, and then right after he loses his big match his experience is reduced to zero, and he's stupider than a newbie to the series.

    You are right about him getting dumber every arc. (Forgetting to catch Pokemon in BW anyone.)

    That's half the reason why no one takes Pokemon seriously generally, because they instantly think of Ash.
    Q. Can I use Rotom's "Mischievous Trick" Poke-POWER when I have no cards in my deck, to put a Prize card into my deck?
    A. No, you can't. That would be far too mischievous. (HS:Undaunted FAQ; Sep 9, 2010 PUI Rules Team)
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    Basic Rule of Thumb: If something creates a situation that is too good to be true (Mime in immune to ALL damage), it is too good to be true.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Regis_Neo View Post
    ...Ash has never been competent. He's always been the idiot hero for lack of better words, and he regresses every new arc too. Otherwise, he would have very well been champion by now with his Pokemon.
    It always annoyed me that the Orange Islands don't count. Nor, for that matter, would taking a Frontier Brain position. Honestly, I think he doesn't even care about being a champion/master/whatever anymore. Seems to me he cares only about running around battling, and being a champion would actually get in the way of that. Which would also explain why he always seems to get worse after each season—near the end of each championships, he realizes actually winning would end his goal of wandering around battling under the nominal assertion he wants to become a master, so he sabotages himself. Objectively speaking he's very skilled, since he's proven he can win a championship when it's not a main league one, but he can't or won't let himself battle at his peak because doing so would ultimately remove his reason for battling.

    It's actually kind of scary how well that theory explains everything, to be honest.
    "I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me." —Dave Barry

    Pokémon SS - You know you want to read it.

  6. #6
    I just keep flashing back to how he beat Bugsy and Janine in the Johto series. That was some good strategy...
    2008 North American Professor Cup Champion
    Minnesota Furious Fists Prereleases || FREE Furious Fists Win-A-Box
    Bullados YouTube Channel
    If you happen to know of a USB, clip-on microphone, please let me know. Thank you!

  7. #7
    totoro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    2,019
    Images
    15
    The vast majority of animated characters do not age nor do they gain skill. Charlie Brown will never grow up, will never kick the football, and will never change his zigzag striped shirt. Mickey Mouse sure looks good for his age, doesn't he? Ash will always be 10 because the show is designed to appeal to children.
    Winter Regionals and VA States Organizer 2013-2014 season, HJ US Spring and Autumn Regionals 2012, HJ US Nats 2012, Judge US Nats 2014, HJ Judge Worlds 2014
    VA PTO since 2005

  8. #8
    I always felt that the standart season wasnt a tv show but really just a commercial with no value whatsoever. And then when the "standart" season is over the writers are like "its finally over, we can go back to real storytelling with all the cool pokemon now". See battle frontier, johto league etc xD

    ~ German National Champion 2010 (Masters) ~
    ~ 1st Place European Professor Cup 2010 ~
    ~ T32 Worlds 2010 ~
    ~ Team Hatter ~

  9. #9
    TheRolesWePlay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    The place where souls go to die
    Posts
    1,260
    Quote Originally Posted by totoro View Post
    The vast majority of animated characters do not age nor do they gain skill. Charlie Brown will never grow up, will never kick the football, and will never change his zigzag striped shirt. Mickey Mouse sure looks good for his age, doesn't he? Ash will always be 10 because the show is designed to appeal to children.
    The part about animated characters not aging isn't really accurate, as most anime doesn't follow the trope. That's more of a Western animation thing. Characters change and evolve, and the same follows for Pokemon, though more on a seasonal basis.
    Q. Can I use Rotom's "Mischievous Trick" Poke-POWER when I have no cards in my deck, to put a Prize card into my deck?
    A. No, you can't. That would be far too mischievous. (HS:Undaunted FAQ; Sep 9, 2010 PUI Rules Team)
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    Basic Rule of Thumb: If something creates a situation that is too good to be true (Mime in immune to ALL damage), it is too good to be true.

  10. #10
    Forum Moderator Regis_Neo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    6,355
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    24
    I still say they should've ditched Ash as a hero for BW, I mean even YGO saw how tired Yugi was getting, so after his story arc finally ended they moved on to new heroes. And considering the background of BW, which is aimed at a slightly older audience (likely because they've finally realized many of the people still playing them are older now too), along with slightly older heroes it would've been a nice change of pace.

    I haven't watched the current BW anime, but if TR gags and their fail attempts to steal Pikachu are in every episode still, that needs to end too.
    Shameless self-promotion:

    Interested in the VGC? Want to be the best you can be? Check out my VGC Teambuilding guide here:

    http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=158669

  11. #11
    TheRolesWePlay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    The place where souls go to die
    Posts
    1,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Regis_Neo View Post
    I still say they should've ditched Ash as a hero for BW, I mean even YGO saw how tired Yugi was getting, so after his story arc finally ended they moved on to new heroes. And considering the background of BW, which is aimed at a slightly older audience (likely because they've finally realized many of the people still playing them are older now too), along with slightly older heroes it would've been a nice change of pace.

    I haven't watched the current BW anime, but if TR gags and their fail attempts to steal Pikachu are in every episode still, that needs to end too.
    TR isn't as common to my understanding which is both good and a little saddening.

    Still though I've wished that Ash would disappear for a while now, and kind of wanted the manga to see an animated release since it's more dramatic and interesting. or at least a new character in general.
    Q. Can I use Rotom's "Mischievous Trick" Poke-POWER when I have no cards in my deck, to put a Prize card into my deck?
    A. No, you can't. That would be far too mischievous. (HS:Undaunted FAQ; Sep 9, 2010 PUI Rules Team)
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    Basic Rule of Thumb: If something creates a situation that is too good to be true (Mime in immune to ALL damage), it is too good to be true.

  12. #12
    Didn't Japan get a one shot side episode aimed at an older audience... and its ratings weren't good enough so they stuck with the old formula?

    Oh, and characters aging/not aging depends on many factors, like how long the series runs, how serious it is, etc.

    Charlie Brown doesn't age. Charlie Brown began as a comic strip character, his original creator is dead, and the specials still rely almost exclusively on humor for the story. As such, aging him up is unlikely. Mickey Mouse is just an immortal. I mean, how many talking mice the size of at least a human child do you know? ;)

    If a series is only on a few seasons, aging usually isn't an issue. Then again, I grew up 80s cartoons like Transformers... and since the third season of Transformers was set in 2006, the mid-to-late teenager Spike grew up, married his girlfriend, and had a very, very stupid son between Seasons (between Season 2 and the '86 movie, technically).

    Of course if you were only five at the time it was easy to mistake Spike "de-aging" at first. >.>
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokepop View Post
    Subtlety is not Pokemon's strong suit.
    Too bad the real issue is one of clarity.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
    Didn't Japan get a one shot side episode aimed at an older audience... and its ratings weren't good enough so they stuck with the old formula?
    The Raikou special with whatever Gold's anime name is? I know his Japanese name is Kenta but I don't know his English name. Anyway, I'm guessing that's entirely why it failed. With something like Pokémon, the target audience flat-up doesn't want too much of a break from the established formula. They want to see Ash run around the gym circuit with Pikachu and a bunch of new Pokémon every season, as well as varying travel companions. Like it or not, the older fans who'd want a more serialized, less cartoonish series with a different protagonist are kind of a fringe demographic, even though the Pokémon world is perfect for all kinds of stories revolving around older/better people than Ash.
    "I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me." —Dave Barry

    Pokémon SS - You know you want to read it.

  14. #14
    TheRolesWePlay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    The place where souls go to die
    Posts
    1,260
    Quote Originally Posted by Marril View Post
    The Raikou special with whatever Gold's anime name is? I know his Japanese name is Kenta but I don't know his English name. Anyway, I'm guessing that's entirely why it failed. With something like Pokémon, the target audience flat-up doesn't want too much of a break from the established formula. They want to see Ash run around the gym circuit with Pikachu and a bunch of new Pokémon every season, as well as varying travel companions. Like it or not, the older fans who'd want a more serialized, less cartoonish series with a different protagonist are kind of a fringe demographic, even though the Pokémon world is perfect for all kinds of stories revolving around older/better people than Ash.
    That's not true. There are plenty of fans that like the darker storylines. The manga can attest to that much. Additionally Digimon Tamers is a fan favorite in Digimon circles, and it is also the darkest in the franchise. The reason why the anime recycles the cartoonish aspects is because the fanbase is easily refreshed and isn't as hard to please. The anime is meant to be the gateway to the video games, the TCG, and other mediums, and most older fans are involved with these and not the anime for that reason.

    Most fans I know would love a darker anime, but Nintendo (or whoever handles the anime) doesn't care enough to put that kind of effort into it. Hopefully they'll try to experiment in the future and we'll see some interesting and darker anime or at least storylines in the future.
    Q. Can I use Rotom's "Mischievous Trick" Poke-POWER when I have no cards in my deck, to put a Prize card into my deck?
    A. No, you can't. That would be far too mischievous. (HS:Undaunted FAQ; Sep 9, 2010 PUI Rules Team)
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    Basic Rule of Thumb: If something creates a situation that is too good to be true (Mime in immune to ALL damage), it is too good to be true.

  15. #15
    So in short it's a combination of the fact that it's worked this long and it'll continue to work for the foreseeable future, and the high turnover of the core viewer base of young children you mentioned. I honestly don't see why we're disagreeing here when it seems like we're both just saying similar things in different ways.
    "I argue very well. Ask any of my remaining friends. I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me." —Dave Barry

    Pokémon SS - You know you want to read it.

  16. #16
    Probably semantics. I re-read your post and I think why I share TheRolesWePlay's response is that you describe so many of us as "fringe". The majority of the fans are random little kids that are going to be too young to have been exposed to older seasons, as you say, so for them the rehash is "all new!".

    This is a pretty risky wager on the part of the powers that be, though: more than one series has lived or died by the child's perception of the "older people's" reaction. Well, not stuff aimed at Pre-school and below. You know, where suddenly the "target demographic" won't watch because "my mom/dad/older brother/older sister/older friend says its stupid and for babies!"

    Of course I'm a Transformers fan from back when it was new, so I am not used to being ignored for too long about these kinds of things. XD
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokepop View Post
    Subtlety is not Pokemon's strong suit.
    Too bad the real issue is one of clarity.

  17. #17
    You can have a series that's "mature" without being "dark". You can have a series that has high stakes and competence without it devolving into melodrama. You can have a series for kids that doesn't devolve into formulas. Don't believe me? Pick up any Atomic Robo comic book and enjoy.
    2008 North American Professor Cup Champion
    Minnesota Furious Fists Prereleases || FREE Furious Fists Win-A-Box
    Bullados YouTube Channel
    If you happen to know of a USB, clip-on microphone, please let me know. Thank you!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •