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Thread: Proposal for US Nats 2007 (Update: Post #19)

  1. #1

    Proposal for US Nats 2007 (Update: Post #19)

    EDIT: The pledges are up. I've linked to them in post 19.

    I have a proposal. But first I will start this thread with a few facts:

    • US Nationals 2006 had 533 players, making it the largest tournament in Pokémon TCG history.
    • .0000001787287833% of Americans played in the US Nationals. In another thread, I showed that many other Nationals did better. Proportionally, US Nats attendance was not that good compared to the other Nats. I’m thinking one of the reasons is that the US is sooooooo big, that it’s too much trouble for some people to travel to Ohio.
    • Ninetales1234 says US Nats will be even larger next year!


    The US has a large player base. I don’t have any proof of this, but if you look at the number of sanctioned tournaments held in the US on the POP website, you’ll see that that number is 4850! Now, yes, we need to consider the fact that the US has a very high population, which I already did. I divided the population of the US by the number of POP-sanctioned tournaments held there (and did the same for the states whose Nationals had the highest attendance- proportionally by population)

    US: 61,487.22 (298,213,000/4850)
    Slovenia: 89,409.09
    Norway: 24,188.48
    Finland: 55,840.43

    Pokémon is not a fad anymore, but we have a huge player base and we could have never-before-seen attendance at Nationals. We can make next year’s Nationals the largest Pokémon TCG tournament in history!

    Let me tell you about this website I saw on G4 called pledgebank.com. It is a website for people who want to do something big, but need help. What would you do if there was something you wanted to accomplish, but decided not to do it because you’re “just one person” and you “won’t make a difference”? It can really dampen the spirits. However, what if you could overcome that mentality, what if you could really feel empowered, by summoning people just like you, to do the same thing?

    When I heard of this website, I thought this was a neat idea, but never visited the website. But recently I thought about the great potential of this website.

    Here are examples of things people have done with the pledgebank system.

    -One person will “consume no television, Internet, radio, movies, newspapers or magazines” if 10 other people will do the same.
    -A mother promises to tell her children that she loves them once a day if 100 others will too.
    -A Jew plans to raise awareness of anti-Semitism if 300 other people will too.
    -A Plymouth County resident says he will “smile and say ‘hello’ to strangers I pass on the streets in my neighborhood but only if 10 people in my town will too.”
    -One "freedom fighter" in New Hampshire wants to refuse compliance with the REAL ID Act, and promises to do so if 199 other people in New Hampshire will do the same.

    These are all very different objectives (and some were accomplished, some were not). But they had something in common. Each of these people wants to make a difference. And they feel that there are people like them who would like to accomplish the same things, but those people feel equally powerless. But, eventually, they all, voluntarily, are united in a cause. It all starts with an individual going on the site to make his/her own pledge to promote a cause, and, in the end, it has the power to make a big difference.

    So, what does this have to do with Pokémon? I want huge numbers at Nationals. And I want a large fraction of them to come from the Lusby area. I will be using the pledgebank to attempt this. This all started with a Aardvark Gym thread (I decided to expand the idea to increase US Nationals attendance overall, not just attendance from Aardvark Gym).

    So, here is the proposed idea for the pledge. I want your input and I will make any modifications necessary, and then I will submit it to pledgebank:

    "I will, (If I do not get a paid invite) save up enough money to attend the Pokémon TCG US National Championship in 2007. I will make it my first priority to make it to the event and will do my best to clear my schedule so I can go. I will do this only if 68 people (12 of which must come from Lusby or within 100 miles) do so.

    Details: Save up money somehow! So you can afford to go to US Nationals! Have a birthday coming up? Thinking of what you want to get as gifts for Christmas (or whatever holiday)? Ask for $$$ to go to Nationals!

    Does Nationals conflict with your work schedule? Negotiate something with your employer- do whatever it takes to get the day off. Have school on the day of Nationals? Find out your school’s attendance policy- maybe one absence won’t hurt your grade. Can't drive? Get someone to drive you there! Do something good for someone, and, in return, ask that person to drive you to Nationals.

    If you have any reason why you cannot go to nationals, do your best to get rid of it! We have a huge player base and we could sent boatload of people in 2007.

    US Nationals 2006 was the biggest Pokémon TCG event ever! In 2007, let’s make it even bigger.

    -ninetales1234, Pokémon TCG Professor, Tournament Organizer, League Leader"


    That's my idea, tell me what you think (is my number too low?). This is doable. 68 people- that means just one out of every three leagues needs to send one person.

    For those of you who own Pokémon websites, I expect you to promote the crap out of this pledge. And those of you who need something to put in your sig- how about a link to the pledge (I will make sure to post the link as soon as it exists)?

    NOTE: Before anyone mentions that it is unreasonable to expect 18% of the people in the pledge to be from the Lusby area, I should mention that there are 10 leagues in that area, and Lusby is home to a league that has consistently been the largest Pokemon TCG league on the East Coast.
    Last edited by ninetales1234; 12/26/2006 at 08:53 PM. Reason: important update
    6th place MD States 2007, 48th place US Nationals 2007, 8th place Stafford CC 2010, 6th place Mid-Atlantic Regionals 2011, 2nd place Leonardtown BR Spring 2012, 1st Place, Yorktown Steam Siege Prerelease, 4th Place, League Challenge at Orlando Regionals, Winner Ditto ex CaC Contest
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    [ninetales1234] is an anarchist because he believes that government is just another group of people

  2. #2
    Rainbowgym's Avatar
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    Dear Ninetales,

    Why do you need other people doing the same?
    The only reason for a pledgebank in my opinion is give people an excuse if they fail to commit to their own pledge.

    Why does a mother need 100 other persons to say "I love you" to their kids, to do it herself?
    Why does a "freedom" fighter need other people to fight?

    Of course you need more people with the same interest to make things change most times.
    But if you are only willing to do this when XXXX persons do the same, your basic is wrong.
    If you want to change something you start with YOURSELF and not after XXXX persons join your "plight".

    It's the way this pledgebank works, what makes me react, not our goal.
    As a mother I don't need a "pledgebank" to say "I love you" to my kids once a day.
    I don't need 100 others doing to same, otherwise I don't do it. (because that's what it is saying)
    I just tell my kids I love them and by doing that I show my environment what they can do.

    Why does somebody need a pledge to pick up garbich from the street, just do it and others will see you doing and do the same (or not). But leaving the junk on the street because nobody joins you is NO excuse.

    IF you want XXX persons out of your area to join Nationals, start with the forfillment of your pledge yourself (and not because XXX others join).
    There are many ways to do this, but a pledgebank i.m.o. is not the way.
    Tell people on your leagues how you are working on attending Nationals, explain them how they can also join it be sharing your "financial" plan. Give the example by YOURSELF.

    Start changing the world by doing things yourself.

    Li@
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka
    At any rate, I applaud Rainbowgym for a truly creative deck that took a great amount of skill to put together.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ninetales1234
    US Nationals 2006 had 533 players, making it the largest tournament in Pokémon TCG history.
    The Super Trainer Showdown Qualifier in Gothenburg, Sweden in 2001 (where I took 1st place in 11-14 and Freddy K took first place in 15+! :D) had 612 players.
    PTO for Norway, Player, Translator, Judge and long-time Pokémaniac. Former webmaster for Norway's official Pokémon website, 2003 through 2011. Staff at the Pokémon World Championships 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. TO for Norway Nationals in 2003 through 2012. Head Judge at Denmark Nationals 2009, 2010 & 2012.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tego
    The Super Trainer Showdown Qualifier in Gothenburg, Sweden in 2001 (where I took 1st place in 11-14 and Freddy K took first place in 15+! :D) had 612 players.
    I am going by what PUI said at US Nationals. They said US Nationals was the largest event ever, so I thought it was.
    Last edited by ninetales1234; 07/30/2006 at 07:16 AM.
    6th place MD States 2007, 48th place US Nationals 2007, 8th place Stafford CC 2010, 6th place Mid-Atlantic Regionals 2011, 2nd place Leonardtown BR Spring 2012, 1st Place, Yorktown Steam Siege Prerelease, 4th Place, League Challenge at Orlando Regionals, Winner Ditto ex CaC Contest
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    [ninetales1234] is an anarchist because he believes that government is just another group of people

  5. #5
    I am going by what PUI said at US Nationals. They said US Nationals was the largest event ever, so I thought it was.
    they might've meant the largest Pokemon tournament under Nintendo?
    T32 @ Worlds 2005, 2008 & 2009

  6. #6
    Weren't the STS's larger?
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  7. #7
    Actually, the San Diego West Coast Super Trainer Showdown had lower attendence in total than Sweden's qualifier event, which only had three trips to offer (one to each top finisher). o.o Still, I think there have been several events in the past that have been bigger than Nationals 2007. They probably just meant the biggest POP sanctioned tournament ever. ;)

    EDIT: BTW, some of the STSs were essentially OPEN World Championships. Imagine what a turnout we'd get today if Worlds was open! I think we would have beat all records in the%
    Last edited by Tego; 07/30/2006 at 05:01 PM.
    PTO for Norway, Player, Translator, Judge and long-time Pokémaniac. Former webmaster for Norway's official Pokémon website, 2003 through 2011. Staff at the Pokémon World Championships 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. TO for Norway Nationals in 2003 through 2012. Head Judge at Denmark Nationals 2009, 2010 & 2012.

  8. #8
    Feature Editor Flaming_Spinach's Avatar
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    I agree with you in spirit, Ninetails1234. However, reality is something completely different.

    I want to go to Nationals. I really do. However, there are some notable barriers to me accomplishing that goal...


    1. Money. This year, I just DID NOT have enough disposable income to afford a trip to Ohio at that time of year. Next year, I might have more disposable income. Or, I may not. I CAN'T make any promises until I know for sure.

    2. Prizes. I am expecting ~400 players at Nats next year (and that's 15+ only). With only Top8 getting the "good" prizes, it will be INSANELLY hard to win anything. If you're looking for at least a return on your money, you're gonna need all the luck you can get.

    3. School. I'm going to University starting this fall. Unfortinatelly for Pokemon, my classes take a higher precedence. If I can get the days of Nationals off without hurting my grades, that would make it alot easier on me.


    So, simply put, there's 3 things preventing me from going to Nationals. 2 of them are things I can change, but the other is something under PUIs power. Increasing the number of prizes at Nationals (I think) would be great for attracting those boarder-line players like me.
    Pseudo-retired.
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    Some people just haven't realized it yet.

  9. #9
    This is why, unlike most other small countries, the US has Regional Championships. Regionals are sort of a localized Nationals. Indeed, attendance at Nationals is going to be low because, indeed, there's a lot of people who can't make it to Ohio. But, again, that's why there's Regionals.

  10. #10
    Whicker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLordSigma
    This is why, unlike most other small countries, the US has Regional Championships. Regionals are sort of a localized Nationals. Indeed, attendance at Nationals is going to be low because, indeed, there's a lot of people who can't make it to Ohio. But, again, that's why there's Regionals.
    Too bad Regionals don't even get close to being a National.

  11. #11
    I think you kind of can compare the USA's State Championships to the European National Championships. US Nationals would be more like a European Championship (although that doesn't exist, at least not yet), where all the states, in this case nations, go head-to-head and try to find the best player among them all.
    PTO for Norway, Player, Translator, Judge and long-time Pokémaniac. Former webmaster for Norway's official Pokémon website, 2003 through 2011. Staff at the Pokémon World Championships 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012. TO for Norway Nationals in 2003 through 2012. Head Judge at Denmark Nationals 2009, 2010 & 2012.

  12. #12
    The Gorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tego
    EDIT: BTW, some of the STSs were essentially OPEN World Championships. Imagine what a turnout we'd get today if Worlds was open! I think we would have beat all records in the%
    That is a really interesting idea.

    1. Make it open to everyone.
    2. Friday and Saturday are both Swiss rounds. Sunday is the cut to top 128.
    3. Winner. Take. All.

    Now that's a tournament.
    The Pokemon Fraternity - Epsilon Epsilon Epsilon Epsilon Epsilon Epsilon Epsilon Kappa (Eeeeeeek)

  13. #13
    First off, they said it was teh largest tournament IN THE US. And, most likely (as stated before), probably under Nintendo.

    As for the pledge thing: It could work. I go every year because I already help out with one other company while at Origins, so Nats. being there is like an added benefit for me. I'd still do Origins even if Pokemon wasn't there for Nats because there's enough other stuff to do that Pokemon frankly isn't my main focus. Nats along with volunteering is.

    I'll def see any of you at Origins next year if you can catch me. See y'all then!
    Current Judge Stats:
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  14. #14
    Rocketman's Avatar
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    so how many were in sweden's nats this year? 2001 was a long time ago........
    I am not in favor of moving it. I like it just where it is.
    expect every flip to be tails and you'll never be dissappointed

  15. #15
    Rainbowgym's Avatar
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    Rocketman - difficult to compare CLOSED Nationals with OPEN events.

    Pretty sure some Nationals would have a much higher attendance if they would have been open this year.
    And with NO travel allowances or whatever in any of the EU countries you cannot compare.


    YOU need "parameters" (don't know the correct word).
    You cannot say compare country XX Nationals with country YY Nationals turn out.
    There are circumstances you need to consider in this, very important ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pooka
    At any rate, I applaud Rainbowgym for a truly creative deck that took a great amount of skill to put together.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tego
    The Super Trainer Showdown Qualifier in Gothenburg, Sweden in 2001 (where I took 1st place in 11-14 and Freddy K took first place in 15+! :D) had 612 players.
    So you're saying that US Nats 2006 was not the largest Pokemon TCG tournament ever? Do you have some evidence?
    6th place MD States 2007, 48th place US Nationals 2007, 8th place Stafford CC 2010, 6th place Mid-Atlantic Regionals 2011, 2nd place Leonardtown BR Spring 2012, 1st Place, Yorktown Steam Siege Prerelease, 4th Place, League Challenge at Orlando Regionals, Winner Ditto ex CaC Contest
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    [ninetales1234] is an anarchist because he believes that government is just another group of people

  17. #17
    Well, I don't know how many people played in the Sweeden tournament, but I CAN tell you who the 2006 Undefeated National Champion is...
    2006 US National Champion (14-0)
    2009 US Nationals (4-0)
    2011 US Nationals Top 32 (10-2)

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbowgym
    Dear Ninetales,

    Why do you need other people doing the same?
    The only reason for a pledgebank in my opinion is give people an excuse if they fail to commit to their own pledge.

    Why does a mother need 100 other persons to say "I love you" to their kids, to do it herself?
    Why does a "freedom" fighter need other people to fight?

    Of course you need more people with the same interest to make things change most times.
    But if you are only willing to do this when XXXX persons do the same, your basic is wrong.
    If you want to change something you start with YOURSELF and not after XXXX persons join your "plight".

    It's the way this pledgebank works, what makes me react, not our goal.
    As a mother I don't need a "pledgebank" to say "I love you" to my kids once a day.
    I don't need 100 others doing to same, otherwise I don't do it. (because that's what it is saying)
    I just tell my kids I love them and by doing that I show my environment what they can do.

    Why does somebody need a pledge to pick up garbich from the street, just do it and others will see you doing and do the same (or not). But leaving the junk on the street because nobody joins you is NO excuse.

    IF you want XXX persons out of your area to join Nationals, start with the forfillment of your pledge yourself (and not because XXX others join).
    There are many ways to do this, but a pledgebank i.m.o. is not the way.
    Tell people on your leagues how you are working on attending Nationals, explain them how they can also join it be sharing your "financial" plan. Give the example by YOURSELF.

    Start changing the world by doing things yourself.

    Li@

    The way that I see it, there are two possible uses for this "pledgebank":

    1.) To get other's opinions on certain issues - If a mother wants an opinion of the importance of showing her child affection every day, she submits a pledgebank.

    2.) To call others to action on an important issue - The same mother is dedicated to showing her child her love, and submits a pledgebank to get others to do the same.

    The question then is: how is this proposal using pledgebank? Since most people already like the idea of a lot of people attending nationals (Assuming that they are open), we aren't using it for the first purpose. However, we are trying to get people to do something, which means that pledgebank is being used for the second purpose.

    While it is questionable as to whether or not the person submitting the proposal will go through with the idea if they are unsure about the issue themselves, I find it unlikely that a person who would call others to action on an issue would not already be dedicated to doing it themselves.

    Therefore, the idea could work, maybe even motivating people who normally wouldn't take the effort to go to nationals to go.
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  19. #19

    Here they are!

    I finally have them posted: Here are the pledges!
    Lusby-area residents, sign this:
    http://www.pledgebank.com/pokemon2007
    Any US resident can sign this:
    http://www.pledgebank.com/usnats2007

    Click here for more info. Remember, if you sign the pledge, you agree to the same terms that the originator of the pledge does.
    6th place MD States 2007, 48th place US Nationals 2007, 8th place Stafford CC 2010, 6th place Mid-Atlantic Regionals 2011, 2nd place Leonardtown BR Spring 2012, 1st Place, Yorktown Steam Siege Prerelease, 4th Place, League Challenge at Orlando Regionals, Winner Ditto ex CaC Contest
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    [ninetales1234] is an anarchist because he believes that government is just another group of people

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaming_Spinach
    3. School. I'm going to University starting this fall. Unfortinatelly for Pokemon, my classes take a higher precedence. If I can get the days of Nationals off without hurting my grades, that would make it alot easier on me.
    There are lots of good schools in Ohio! But Nats is in July, no school going on (accept maybe OSU)
    Eastern Ohio and Western Pennsylvania PTO
    http://www.330games.com <--- Area Leagues and Tournaments

  21. #21
    Come on! Only eight people are going to Nationals?
    44 K value- it's your last chance to increase your rating before Worlds (if you win, you'll probably be invited to Worlds anyway)- I know plenty of people will be there.

    533 people played in last year's Nats (perhaps only 180 people were invited) . I know we can get more than 8 people to sign my pledge. Do we want to break the record for the largest PTCG tournament in history- again?
    6th place MD States 2007, 48th place US Nationals 2007, 8th place Stafford CC 2010, 6th place Mid-Atlantic Regionals 2011, 2nd place Leonardtown BR Spring 2012, 1st Place, Yorktown Steam Siege Prerelease, 4th Place, League Challenge at Orlando Regionals, Winner Ditto ex CaC Contest
    Quote Originally Posted by PokePop View Post
    [ninetales1234] is an anarchist because he believes that government is just another group of people

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tego
    EDIT: BTW, some of the STSs were essentially OPEN World Championships. Imagine what a turnout we'd get today if Worlds was open! I think we would have beat all records in the%
    Wow, imagine is right. If Worlds were an open tournament, we may need more age divisions to get the rounds down to a reasonable number. Same at U.S. Nationals this year. If it's going to be the big event as predicted, we'd have have to play more than 9 rounds in 2007 as we played that many in 2006. We'll be there--our own family pledge, a family vacation.

    Happy New Year!

  23. #23
    the number of rounds grows logarithmically : each doubling in attendance only adds one extra round. The number of rounds will never be the biggest constraint at a very large tournament. Table space and registration time both grow linearly with attendance. Those two are the hard constraints.

    [FWIW The only thing that I can think of that grows as a polynomial is checking the standings and pairings. Which is why these are posted at multiple locations at a big tournament]

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