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Thread: Hide and Seek...

  1. #1

    Hide and Seek...

    Hide and Seek... (E-on)

    Pokemon: 16
    4 Gastly (Exp)
    2 Haunter (1 of each)
    4 Gengar (Exp)
    3 Nincada
    3 Shedinja

    Energy: 16
    12 Psychic
    4 Warp

    Trainers: 28
    4 Root Fossil
    4 Claw Fossil
    3 Rare Candy
    3 POR
    3 Shaman
    2 Ancient Ruins
    3 Master Ball
    3 Switch
    3 Warp Point

    There's the deck. I must give a big thanks to the winner of the Winter Haven CC for the deck idea and to a few other ppl who attended. It's been through a few test rounds and it either KO's the main attkers w/ Gengar, or decks the opponent. Either is good in my book. ;) I have also found that this satisfies my thirst for a good rogue deck and allows me to have a little fun w/ a new and different deck.
    Any fixes, compliments or bashings are welcome!(though bashings are highly frowned upon. lol) Thx
    -Swampy
    Last edited by SwampertEX; 03/02/2004 at 03:24 PM.
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  2. #2
    I dont get the deck at all...
    are you supposed to like lose like 4 prizes or so on purpose and then play... thats kind of pointless, considering if you get one prize behind you are already in trouble with 80% of the decks in the current playing atmosphere...

    i dont understand how this can win..
    Pokemon's Golden Boy, The Former Face of New England is Back
    PokeyPalooza (Nats '10) is Coming....Will You Be Ready?

  3. #3

    Question

    Have you had any trouble with bench hitting pokemon yet, stuff like Kingdra EX w/Water Arrow Seadra, Electabuzz, Cacturne or Aggron EX? Or Darkness pokemon like Sneasel EX?
    Judge, Masters, Norwegian Nationals 2008
    ...It's been a busy season non-pokemonwise, so less playing = more judging.

  4. #4
    i honestly think it would have trouble with a shuckle deck to be honest. im not bashing or anything. this deck needs serious help. i cant even think of where to start. Maybe making a completely new deck
    Pokemon's Golden Boy, The Former Face of New England is Back
    PokeyPalooza (Nats '10) is Coming....Will You Be Ready?

  5. #5
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    This deck dominated asheville CC, and I believe won in a few ones in florida aswell. It is a easy tech against gardevior, but BAR really cripples it. You just switch the fossil, attack, move the fossil up again. Your opponent doesn't ever get to hit your hitter and well you ko your opponent's monsters in a few turns of attacking each one.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by |PoKeY|
    I dont get the deck at all...
    are you supposed to like lose like 4 prizes or so on purpose and then play... thats kind of pointless, considering if you get one prize behind you are already in trouble with 80% of the decks in the current playing atmosphere...

    i dont understand how this can win..
    Umm, have you read Gengars Attack??? It does 40 damage then after doing damage you have to switch it w/ one of your Benched Pokemon... Therefore you hide behind Fossils and Ninja to keep Gengar safe and stall for time or till your opponent decks... You should really find out what cards do b4 you post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddiursa
    Have you had any trouble with bench hitting pokemon yet, stuff like Kingdra EX w/Water Arrow Seadra, Electabuzz, Cacturne or Aggron EX? Or Darkness pokemon like Sneasel EX?
    Well, to tell you the truth, the only one of those decks that I've ever encountered is Kingdra. But Bench attkers normally help this deck b/c if my opponent draws enough prizes, I can (ab)use Gengars Power (I usually have 2-3 out) and move damage between my opponents PKMN for easy ko's. I knocked out a couple Blazes in a Niniken deck w/ that move. That deck eventually overcame me when he had like 20 cards in his hand 1 card in deck and 2 prizes and top decked a POR...grrrrr But I really like this deck and I'm lookin for any improvements. Thx
    -Swampy
    I am currently an inactive member of the Pokemon TCG community. Calculus and such are taking up all of my time.
    I have been inactive since February of 2004. You can still Message me if you want, but chances are I won't get it.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Prime
    This deck dominated asheville CC, and I believe won in a few ones in florida aswell. It is a easy tech against gardevior, but BAR really cripples it. You just switch the fossil, attack, move the fossil up again. Your opponent doesn't ever get to hit your hitter and well you ko your opponent's monsters in a few turns of attacking each one.
    Yes it did win a few Florida CC's and it's about time a new rogue dominated! lol BAR gives the version w/ only Fossils alot more trouble than mine, b/c I added Ninja, BAR can't touch me. hehehe BTW Thx for stickin up 4 me Prime! It's been a LONG time since we've actually agreed on sumthin let alone you stickin up 4 me. thx a bunch
    -Swampy
    I am currently an inactive member of the Pokemon TCG community. Calculus and such are taking up all of my time.
    I have been inactive since February of 2004. You can still Message me if you want, but chances are I won't get it.
    Just Email me if you have some sudden urge or something.
    PS-I probably will never be active again, so if you have questions about anything related to the TCG (not that anyone actually read this far) I DON'T WANT YOU'RE MESSAGES.

  8. #8
    I played a similar deck recently against an Aggron Ex/Xatu dack -- I got smeared when the Aggron Ex w/4 metal energy came out to play. Switch to Shedinja -- opponent brought out a basic to cream it! I'm trying Super Energy Removal 2 -- two flips is awful, but if you put four in a deck and do manage to use it against the Aggron Ex -- whoops -- there goes all that metal energy! :D

    I see you have warp points -- I sure could have used those for picking off the Xatu, so those should help immensely.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabid Raichu
    I played a similar deck recently against an Aggron Ex/Xatu dack -- I got smeared when the Aggron Ex w/4 metal energy came out to play. Switch to Shedinja -- opponent brought out a basic to cream it! I'm trying Super Energy Removal 2 -- two flips is awful, but if you put four in a deck and do manage to use it against the Aggron Ex -- whoops -- there goes all that metal energy! :D

    I see you have warp points -- I sure could have used those for picking off the Xatu, so those should help immensely.
    Ya, I suspect that those decks would give this a mighty load of trouble, but Aggaron isn't real big down hear in sunny Florida, so it shouldn't be too big of a problem. Gojira decks down here are scarce, but I'll try to think of sumthin to get around them. O and BTW if u have a Ninja up, than Aggy's attk is useless right? And if you can't attk, let your opponent deck themselves! That's why it's always good to have a backup plan. lol
    -Swampy
    I am currently an inactive member of the Pokemon TCG community. Calculus and such are taking up all of my time.
    I have been inactive since February of 2004. You can still Message me if you want, but chances are I won't get it.
    Just Email me if you have some sudden urge or something.
    PS-I probably will never be active again, so if you have questions about anything related to the TCG (not that anyone actually read this far) I DON'T WANT YOU'RE MESSAGES.

  10. #10

    Suggestion

    If you can find room for 3 Strength Charms in you deck, maybe that would help? 'Cos when Shedinja is active your opponent will hopefully bring out a basic, non-ex pokemon, and there are lots of 50HP basics around. So if Gengar could do 50 damage to them maybe he would be more efficient? Just a thought.
    Judge, Masters, Norwegian Nationals 2008
    ...It's been a busy season non-pokemonwise, so less playing = more judging.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Daddiursa
    If you can find room for 3 Strength Charms in you deck, maybe that would help? 'Cos when Shedinja is active your opponent will hopefully bring out a basic, non-ex pokemon, and there are lots of 50HP basics around. So if Gengar could do 50 damage to them maybe he would be more efficient? Just a thought.
    Most major decks don't keep around basics and if u c one on the bench, just put up a claw fossil... Thx for the help, but I don't know if there's any room for the charm...
    -Swampy
    I am currently an inactive member of the Pokemon TCG community. Calculus and such are taking up all of my time.
    I have been inactive since February of 2004. You can still Message me if you want, but chances are I won't get it.
    Just Email me if you have some sudden urge or something.
    PS-I probably will never be active again, so if you have questions about anything related to the TCG (not that anyone actually read this far) I DON'T WANT YOU'RE MESSAGES.

  12. #12
    nikePK's Avatar
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    aggron still drills your benched stuff, he just doesn't hurt Shedinja, and shedinja only. This loses to aggron bad, and I think Kingdra should definitely be able to destroy it, but it looks really good against most of the other stuff out there, bar included.... correct me if i'm wrong Jermy/Mudkip lol. I'm really not sure why you need 6 switch type cards in the deck... I'd drop 2 or 3 of those for the previously mentioned S. Charms, Oran Berries, or more draw power.
    Last edited by nikePK; 03/02/2004 at 07:08 PM.

  13. #13
    You guys owe me royalties. ;)

    Anyway, the deck is quite sound. I'm surprised how committed peoplw are to getting "baby"porter working.
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  14. #14
    First, I would drop Ancient Ruins. You've got 9 supporters in this deck. That's quite a few and chances are that you won't get many opportunities to us Ancient Ruins.

    Second, I think you've got too much energy. The only thing you really need to power up in a single Gengar and then use the rest of the energy for retreating Shedinja.

    Third, beware of Ampharos EX. Shedinja only has 30 HP and if you're getting hit with 10 each time you attach energy (in order to retreat Shedinja (you won't always have a Switch or Warp Point)) you're going to run out of HP pretty quick. Consider teching in a Potion or two.

    The power is nice, but it's not something you're going to be relying on. As a matter of fact, this deck would be just as good if Gengar had no power whatsoever.

    From my perspective, there are 3 major decks right now: Gardevoir, Ampharos, and BAR. This deck is dominant against Gardevoir. I've had success with it against Amphy, and my daughter went 1-1 against BARs. We're play-testing it right now against those 3 decks (created from CC-winning and high-finishing deck lists posted on Pokegym) and it's doing well against all 3. Can it consistently beat Gardevoir? Yes. Can it consistently beat Ampharos? It's going about a 75% clip right now. BAR? Not sure. There's a lot of bad BAR out there and a lot of people who have copied BAR decks are don't play them well. Against those, this deck will probably be ok. But if you run up against a good player with a highly-tuned BAR, probably not.

  15. #15
    This deck doesn't work like this. You beat Gardevoir. You will not beat Kingdra. Pokemon Nurse ends you. Same costs you the game vs Ampharos. Aggron Wailord beats you hands down, as the extra healing hurts too. Blaziken has too much HP and deals bench damage too. I have definitely seen potential in Gengar, don't get me wrong. The card is good and can win. Gengar itself is a very strong card, and I'll be honest and say I had tested this sort of deck for awhile, but it falls short vs a few too m any decks. Its close but lacks the ability to score the final kills. Not BAD, but its missing something that I have yet to be able to find. I don't know if it is available yet, but I expect Gengar to be effective in the near future, but I have yet to see someone unlock it.

  16. #16
    I agree with Blaziken, he's a horse. Aggron is a problem too, but (fortunately) we've only seen one in the 4 CCs we've been to. But the only thing Aggron really has to fear is fire. So unless you're playing Fire, everybody has to be concerned with Aggron.

    I'm not overly concerned about Kingdra or Amphy. There's a tactic I've used in the past against other "energy move/Pokemon Nurse" decks (like Poliwrath) that is effective against them. There is also some tech that you can use to counter Amphy as well. (This approach has worked well so far, going 2-0 against Ampharos decks in CCs, and yet to lose during play testing over the past week). But I love Kingdra and it's had some success in some CCs (Charlotte, at least). I'm hoping people keep working that deck (without being too afraid of Amphy).

    One of my big concerns with Gengar is Dark Pokemon. Their resistant to Psychic is nasty. But not so many people are playing them. Not sure why. (I keep looking for an Expedition Tyranitar deck to show up, but it never does. Just more Gardy/Amphy/BAR. :( )

  17. #17
    I combo Gengar with SS Golduck and EX Magby with High Pressure System in this deck (http://www.pokegym.net/showthread.php?t=4741) that works fairly well. Usually the oponent has to flip heads at least once prior to attacking.

    By the way, Dave, I played Tyranitar with Furret and Boost energy at the last league tourney and went 4-2 with it. He's still a viable threat.
    Last edited by duanojo; 03/03/2004 at 10:44 AM.

  18. #18

    Idea?

    This might be a long shot, but... well, you decide if this is a good idea or not:

    Use Mystery Plate (gamma) from Skyridge! This card might work very well in your deck for at least two reasons. 1) In early game you can attatch it to a fossil and *Voila!* you got a new hand of 6 cards (sounds a little like Cleffa, doesn't it?), and 2) In late game (when your opponent has 2 prizes left), you Chaos Move damage so that one of your opponets evolved pokes will be knocked out if you remove the top card from it with MP (gamma).

    Or you could use it with Shedinja, because of it's own poor attack.. or maybe get an extra advantage out of a fossil you returned to the bench with a Warp Energy.

    To do this you should also add a fisherman to retreieve those few energies that follows the fossils to their graveyard. Perheps do this:

    + 1 Psychic Energy
    + 4 Mystery Plate (gamma)
    + 1 Fisherman
    - 1 Warp Energy
    - 3 Desert Shaman
    - 2 Ancient Ruins (You go: *No way, Norway!!*)

    Tell me what you think!
    Last edited by Daddiursa; 03/03/2004 at 09:33 AM.
    Judge, Masters, Norwegian Nationals 2008
    ...It's been a busy season non-pokemonwise, so less playing = more judging.

  19. #19
    meganium45's Avatar
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    Just want to let you know, the inventor of this deck is being given kudos by Newman as inspiring the WailordEX deck....

    Just took the concept the the ABSOLUTE extreme!

    M45

  20. #20

    =\

    Quote:
    Umm, have you read Gengars Attack??? It does 40 damage then after doing damage you have to switch it w/ one of your Benched Pokemon... Therefore you hide behind Fossils and Ninja to keep Gengar safe and stall for time or till your opponent decks... You should really find out what cards do b4 you post...
    :End Quote

    Are you joking me.
    Of course I know what the cards do, i have most them and have prolly tested with the majority of the worthy cards.
    and 2nd of all do you know who your talking to. You should really find out who certain people are b4 you post...

    3rd off, I do actually like the idea of gengar. Like Fulop said, it is very strong but it's just not good enough to work out.

    but shedinja and the fossils can only stall. Stalling is really for a false sense of security.

    Gengar needs a decent back up hitter in order for it to be successful.

    Bench Hitters will completely obliterate this deck and use it as toilet paper.
    Pokemon's Golden Boy, The Former Face of New England is Back
    PokeyPalooza (Nats '10) is Coming....Will You Be Ready?

  21. #21
    oh ya i forgot to mention
    O and BTW if u have a Ninja up, than Aggy's attk is useless right? And if you can't attk, let your opponent deck themselves! That's why it's always good to have a backup plan. lol
    If you had read the cards b4 posting, you would have already known that Shedinja only prevents damage and effects to Shedinja, thus allowing the benched pokemon except shedy, to be vulnerable to damage.
    So they could just surge ur bench to death.
    Last edited by |PoKeY|; 03/03/2004 at 12:27 PM.
    Pokemon's Golden Boy, The Former Face of New England is Back
    PokeyPalooza (Nats '10) is Coming....Will You Be Ready?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by davechri
    First, I would drop Ancient Ruins. You've got 9 supporters in this deck. That's quite a few and chances are that you won't get many opportunities to us Ancient Ruins.

    Second, I think you've got too much energy. The only thing you really need to power up in a single Gengar and then use the rest of the energy for retreating Shedinja.

    Third, beware of Ampharos EX. Shedinja only has 30 HP and if you're getting hit with 10 each time you attach energy (in order to retreat Shedinja (you won't always have a Switch or Warp Point)) you're going to run out of HP pretty quick. Consider teching in a Potion or two.

    The power is nice, but it's not something you're going to be relying on. As a matter of fact, this deck would be just as good if Gengar had no power whatsoever.

    From my perspective, there are 3 major decks right now: Gardevoir, Ampharos, and BAR. This deck is dominant against Gardevoir. I've had success with it against Amphy, and my daughter went 1-1 against BARs. We're play-testing it right now against those 3 decks (created from CC-winning and high-finishing deck lists posted on Pokegym) and it's doing well against all 3. Can it consistently beat Gardevoir? Yes. Can it consistently beat Ampharos? It's going about a 75% clip right now. BAR? Not sure. There's a lot of bad BAR out there and a lot of people who have copied BAR decks are don't play them well. Against those, this deck will probably be ok. But if you run up against a good player with a highly-tuned BAR, probably not.
    I agree w/ some of your statements, but some not so much... First off, I only have 6 supporters in this deck. I agree w/ the nrg statement and will most likely add some Smoochum/Magby (prolly not Magby b/c of Ruins). Another reason why I play ruins is to get rid of HPS and LPS and other Stadiums my opponent might be leeching off of.lol I also agree w/ your statement about Ninja and I will try to find room for healing. Thx alot for your input, I appreciate it it's prolly helped the most yet. lol So here's the improved deck:

    Hide and Seek... v2 (E-on)

    Pokemon: 19
    3 Gastly (Exp)
    3 Haunter (2 Exp, 1 SK)
    3 Gengar (Exp)
    3 Nincada
    3 Shedinja
    4 Smoochum (AQ)

    Energy: 12
    9 Psychic
    3 Warp

    Trainers: 31
    4 Root Fossil
    4 Claw Fossil
    3 POR
    3 Shaman
    2 Ancient Ruins
    3 Master Ball
    3 Switch
    3 Warp Point
    4 Potion/Moo-Moo

    That's the deck. Any more suggestions?
    Last edited by SwampertEX; 03/03/2004 at 04:27 PM.
    I am currently an inactive member of the Pokemon TCG community. Calculus and such are taking up all of my time.
    I have been inactive since February of 2004. You can still Message me if you want, but chances are I won't get it.
    Just Email me if you have some sudden urge or something.
    PS-I probably will never be active again, so if you have questions about anything related to the TCG (not that anyone actually read this far) I DON'T WANT YOU'RE MESSAGES.

  23. #23
    Dang, you're right. For some reason I thought Rare Candy was a supporter.

    Six supporters? Ok, I'm with you. I'd keep Ancient Ruins.

    Looks good.

    This may just be a personal style thing, but I am not so crazy about the whole baby thing. They were great when you could Focus Band them, but without it, they're one coin flip away from a KO and, more importantly in this case, a prize. I've got to ask "What do I gain by hiding behind a baby (let's say you have 4 in the deck) versus hiding behind a Fossil (let's say you add 4 Mysterious Fossils)?"

    Do either of those baby's attacks improve this deck?

    I would just think hard about that in the context of your opponent being one coin flip away from getting a prize.

    Nice deck though (and good discussion).

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by davechri
    Dang, you're right. For some reason I thought Rare Candy was a supporter.

    Six supporters? Ok, I'm with you. I'd keep Ancient Ruins.

    Looks good.

    This may just be a personal style thing, but I am not so crazy about the whole baby thing. They were great when you could Focus Band them, but without it, they're one coin flip away from a KO and, more importantly in this case, a prize. I've got to ask "What do I gain by hiding behind a baby (let's say you have 4 in the deck) versus hiding behind a Fossil (let's say you add 4 Mysterious Fossils)?"

    Do either of those baby's attacks improve this deck?

    I would just think hard about that in the context of your opponent being one coin flip away from getting a prize.

    Nice deck though (and good discussion).
    BTW the first version of the deck had no Ninja 2 Myst fossils and 4 Smoochum and it worked purdy well. Smoochy saved me from PLENTY Blaze bench attks and I'm not sure but even if you attk the bench, don't you have to flip for the baby power? And to answer your question, no the babies attks don't help the deck, but they help and AWFUL lot more than you would think. Even if your opponent does get a prize from Smoochy it gives you a better chance of using Gar's power and if it isn't knocked out, your opponent wasted an attk and is Gengar bait next turn. lol I really like ancient ruins in this deck 4 mor reasons than 1. First it basicaly gives me a solid 1 card every turn no strings attached. Second, it can slow your decking process. For instance, if I ran a whole buncha supporters, I would risk decking myself b4 my opponent and then loose my backup strategy and the game. Thx so much for your imput! I like a nice healthy discussion (Not ARGUMENT, discussion) every once in a while. TTYL
    -Swampy
    I am currently an inactive member of the Pokemon TCG community. Calculus and such are taking up all of my time.
    I have been inactive since February of 2004. You can still Message me if you want, but chances are I won't get it.
    Just Email me if you have some sudden urge or something.
    PS-I probably will never be active again, so if you have questions about anything related to the TCG (not that anyone actually read this far) I DON'T WANT YOU'RE MESSAGES.

  25. #25
    Hide and Seek... v3 (E-on)

    Pokemon: 17
    3 Gastly (Exp)
    3 Haunter (2 Exp, 1 SK)
    3 Gengar (Exp)
    2 Nincada
    2 Shedinja
    4 Smoochum (AQ)

    Energy: 12
    9 Psychic
    3 Warp

    Trainers: 31
    4 Root Fossil
    4 Claw Fossil
    3 POR
    3 Shaman
    2 Ancient Ruins
    3 Master Ball
    3 Switch
    3 Warp Point
    3 Moo-Moo Milk (Got me outta a few tight situations)
    2 Strength Charm
    1 Town Volunteers

    This deck is gr8. I had a couple Gengars out in my last game and my opponent had 3 prizes so he kept bench attking Gar w/ Kingdra and I moved all but 10 dmg to Root Fossils and eliminating the dmg. this deck's record is now 3/2. I'm proud of it and I'd like to keep getting suggestions. O and FYI I won against the King. Thx!
    -Swampy
    Last edited by SwampertEX; 03/03/2004 at 05:56 PM.
    I am currently an inactive member of the Pokemon TCG community. Calculus and such are taking up all of my time.
    I have been inactive since February of 2004. You can still Message me if you want, but chances are I won't get it.
    Just Email me if you have some sudden urge or something.
    PS-I probably will never be active again, so if you have questions about anything related to the TCG (not that anyone actually read this far) I DON'T WANT YOU'RE MESSAGES.

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