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Thread: Sandslash MT Spike Armor vs. Holon WP

  1. #1

    Sandslash MT Spike Armor vs. Holon WP

    Spike Armor
    During your opponent's next turn, if Sandslash is damaged by an opponent's attack (even if Sandslash is Knocked Out), put 4 damage counters on the Attacking Pokemon.
    Holon Energy WP
    If the Pokemon that Holon Energy WP is attached to also has a basic W Energy card attached to it, prevent all effects [of attacks], excluding damage, done to that Pokemon by your opponent's Pokemon.
    The question arises because Spike Armor places an effect on Sandslash, which gets triggered by the opponent attacking on their next turn. It's not an effect of an attack, it's an effect of an effect of an attack :) It's also not an effect done to the Attacking Pokemon, at least not initially. Holon WP does not prevent the effect from going on Sandslash, but does it prevent the subsequent placement of damage counters when Sandslash is damaged?

    [EDIT: Took out the stuff w.r.t. Lucario LvX since it's not actually relevant]

    Addendum: Reference the ruling on Fluff vs. Dark Seed:

    Q. If Dark Raticate uses "Dark Seed" against a damaged Swablu, is the "Fluff" coin flip done as soon as the attack is announced, when the 5 damage counters are placed, or both times?
    A. It would only be done the first time. You would flip for Fluff when the Dark Seed attack puts the effect onto the Swablu; but you would not flip when the five damage counters are placed because that's a *result of the effect* on Swablu rather than a direct result of the Dark Seed attack [just like you wouldn't flip each time you placed a damage counter for poison]. (Apr 21, 2005 PUI Rules Team)
    Holon WP can't stop the creation of Sandslash's effect, since it resides on Sandslash. Based on the Fluff ruling, it shouldn't be able to prevent the damage counters either. Holon WP only keeps the effect from being created in the first place -- if it gets created, it must then resolve, and Holon WP can't do a thing about that.
    Last edited by Chairman Kaga; 02/13/2008 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Added Fluff vs. Dark Seed comparison
    Stephen Clouse
    Kansas City Pokémon
    Judge Credentials: 2016 US Nationals Side Events Staff, 2009 US Nationals Senior Division Judge, Regionals Judge, Kansas/Nebraska States Head Judge

  2. #2
    Administrator PokePop's Avatar
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    Hmm.
    I expect I meant to put a "not" in there, but in any event, Stance and Spike Armor don't interact at all.
    Stance prevents effects of attacks during the opponent's next turn, but Spike Armor would trigger during Lucario's turn, when he attacks. No interaction! I corrected my earlier answer.

    I suspect we should discuss the Holon WP case. It doesn't have the "during your opponent's next turn" clause like Stance does, but that might be "understood".

    No rules team this week though.
    Night off for Valentine's Day.
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  3. #3
    Administrator PokePop's Avatar
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    The attack effect is originally placed on Sandslash.
    By the time damage counters are being placed, it's no longer directly an "effect of an attack on" that Pokemon and so it gets past the protection.
    Rules Team Member / Member of Team Compendium - The Pokemon Rulings Compendium - Co-Owner of PokeGym.net
    Premiere Tournament Organizer
    Invited to Judge every US National Championship and World Championship
    Masters Head Judge TCG World Championship 2010 - Seniors Head Judge US Nationals 2009

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