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Thread: Should Stealth Rock be banned from competitive play?

  1. #1
    Forum Moderator vaporeon's Avatar
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    Should Stealth Rock be banned from competitive play?

    Well, should it? I, for one being a huge fan of fliers get really hurt by it. Having the best Pidgeot means nothing when you lose 25% of hp because you're weak to it on a switch it. I'll give some valid points to why. Moltres could easily be OU, not that I care about tiers, but does not see play because it loses 50% of its hp when switching in, despite its good movepool. Articuno being the most definitive bird in the game can't that a Thunderbolt or a super effective attack because it loses half its hp. Just look at your Bug-Flying types, Charizard and others with 4x weakness to rock type attacks and means that a Pokemon that loses 50% of it health can only afford 1 switch it and thats assuming they somewhat have Articunos defense .

    The other field attacks like Spikes and Toxic Spikes can be avoided by Fliers and Pokemon with Levitate while Stealth Rocks hits EVERYTHING with some kind of damage. It ruins Focus Sash users, kills Shedinja, and makes just about 20 or so Pokemon NOT USABLE AT ALL. No attack should limit what Pokemon should or should not be played.

    With Platinums release with Rotom-a, it kills any spinner and all good players know that so there is really not way to stop a good player from keeping Stealth Rocks out . No Pokemon should take damage switching into a battle be it Stealth Rock or Spikes and for only on turn of set up. With the ban of of Stealth Rock, the metagame with open up a lot and re-allow Pokemon like Articuno and Moltres to be played or even Vespiquen. The attack is over powered and should be banned. I have to tell people when they play me, no stealth Rocks because I can't use a lot of my Pokemon when you use it. Most of you might not see it as a problem because a lot of you might use Ground/Steel types but all I am saying it, one no Pokemon should lose 25 or even 50% of their hp when switching in or even take damage switching in.

    I think I covered most of it that I know and I'm sure I can anwser any question you might have about this.
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  2. #2
    Worth experimenting with. Bring it up to ******, they are like the 'Gym of the DS game. If they make a rule almost every competitive site will follow the ruling change.

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by chriscobi634 View Post
    Worth experimenting with. Bring it up to ******, they are like the 'Gym of the DS game. If they make a rule almost every competitive site will follow the ruling change.

    It's kind of ironic the 'Gym has the word blocked off. Yet it's t he best side kick it has when it comes to getting word out about the TCG game.
    the reason that word is blocked is cuz that site is not family friendly. that site is more for people over the age of 13, so they do not have to deal with much from COPPA.

  4. #4
    It's been discussed before. However, considering right now the top metagame threats all resist or take neutral damage(Skymin?(not sure if it got banned), Heatran, Scizor) and the best wall in the game (Zapdos) takes 25% they will probably rationalize that stealth rock balances the metagame someone. Still, i would like to see a test metagame without stealth rock.

  5. #5
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    Keep a Rapid Spinner on your team, problem solved. I personally use Donphan. It only takes 6.25% damage when it comes into play, and it can also act as a defensive wall, with a strong STAB'd Earthquake
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  6. #6
    Stealth Rock is annoying, but it's nothing like evasion or sleep that you can't get rid of. You ban stealth rock, you get rid of a whole lot of pokes that are used just for that purpose. And rotom, have a whirl winder or something that makes them switch, or the simplest thing, JUST KILL IT! Rotom won't be THAT hard to kill, and once it's gone you can Rapid spin. This thread is reminding me of the ban gardy gallade thread. People don't like it because there's "no way" to beat it, so they want it banned.
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    Stealth rock is annoying, sure, but it balances the meta, much like the cards. You have to adjust your deck for the meta, so in the games adjust for the meta.
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  8. #8
    Forum Moderator vaporeon's Avatar
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    I think it should be tested. Its not about, get a spinner or just don't use fliers. I should be able to play my Moltres and Articuno without the lost of 50% of it health on a switch with no effort at all. Evasion and OHKOs were banned because people did not want to was a moveslot or Pokemon to counter them. Both Spikes can be avoided by most Pokemon but Stealth Rocks hits Everything. I for one rather not Change 4 Pokemon in my team to just avoid some rocks.

    I don't think Skymin should be banned because it would be no more broken then Togekiss but thats not the point right now. No Pokemon should come into play losing HP to something you can control especially 50% for almost no setup effort. The spikes take 3 turns to be a threat and fliers can avoid them.

    I rather not put a Pokemon on my team to get rid of rocks.
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  9. #9
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    It shouldn't be banned as a whole, but having that as an optional rule, similar to the 'no HAX moves' clause, makes sense.

  10. #10
    Forum Moderator vaporeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nukada View Post
    It shouldn't be banned as a whole, but having that as an optional rule, similar to the 'no HAX moves' clause, makes sense.
    I can agree with that.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by vaporeon View Post
    Well, should it? I, for one being a huge fan of fliers get really hurt by it. Having the best Pidgeot means nothing when you lose 25% of hp because you're weak to it on a switch it. I'll give some valid points to why. Moltres could easily be OU, not that I care about tiers, but does not see play because it loses 50% of its hp when switching in, despite its good movepool. Articuno being the most definitive bird in the game can't that a Thunderbolt or a super effective attack because it loses half its hp. Just look at your Bug-Flying types, Charizard and others with 4x weakness to rock type attacks and means that a Pokemon that loses 50% of it health can only afford 1 switch it and thats assuming they somewhat have Articunos defense .

    The other field attacks like Spikes and Toxic Spikes can be avoided by Fliers and Pokemon with Levitate while Stealth Rocks hits EVERYTHING with some kind of damage. It ruins Focus Sash users, kills Shedinja, and makes just about 20 or so Pokemon NOT USABLE AT ALL. No attack should limit what Pokemon should or should not be played.

    With Platinums release with Rotom-a, it kills any spinner and all good players know that so there is really not way to stop a good player from keeping Stealth Rocks out . No Pokemon should take damage switching into a battle be it Stealth Rock or Spikes and for only on turn of set up. With the ban of of Stealth Rock, the metagame with open up a lot and re-allow Pokemon like Articuno and Moltres to be played or even Vespiquen. The attack is over powered and should be banned. I have to tell people when they play me, no stealth Rocks because I can't use a lot of my Pokemon when you use it. Most of you might not see it as a problem because a lot of you might use Ground/Steel types but all I am saying it, one no Pokemon should lose 25 or even 50% of their hp when switching in or even take damage switching in.

    I think I covered most of it that I know and I'm sure I can anwser any question you might have about this.
    yes, rotom can kill any spinner....?
    despite most rapid spinners being part steel type, which rotom can't really hurt with air slash.
    maybe the rotom form that has heat wave, but starmie can rapid spin, so can donphan, so can other things.
    You're just whining about this because you can't use pokemon that aren't good enough to withstand sr. It's not really just flying pokemon, but why are you complaining?
    stealth rock is by no means bannable, if it is a word.
    erm, it doesn't really hurt pokemon that badly, and 50% is stopped via leftovers in 9 turns, or recovered/rested off anyway. Most walls aren't weak to sr anyway, so it won't hurt them.
    besides, you have to choose a team that can counter those things.
    Just because you can't adapt to problems doesn't mean moves must be banned. You just have to re-think your strategy.
    Lol, maybe moltres and such are 4x weak to sr, that's why they aren't played.
    It's like saying that all water, rock and ground type moves should be banned because you only like fire type pokemon.
    If you want to like tell whoever you are going to battle not to use stealth rock, go ahead, I doubt they will really be inclined to listen to you, but it should not be banned just because your particular team is weak to it.
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  12. #12
    Forum Moderator vaporeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piblo View Post
    yes, rotom can kill any spinner....?
    despite most rapid spinners being part steel type, which rotom can't really hurt with air slash.
    maybe the rotom form that has heat wave, but starmie can rapid spin, so can donphan, so can other things.
    You're just whining about this because you can't use pokemon that aren't good enough to withstand sr. It's not really just flying pokemon, but why are you complaining?
    stealth rock is by no means bannable, if it is a word.
    erm, it doesn't really hurt pokemon that badly, and 50% is stopped via leftovers in 9 turns, or recovered/rested off anyway. Most walls aren't weak to sr anyway, so it won't hurt them.
    besides, you have to choose a team that can counter those things.
    Just because you can't adapt to problems doesn't mean moves must be banned. You just have to re-think your strategy.
    Lol, maybe moltres and such are 4x weak to sr, that's why they aren't played.
    It's like saying that all water, rock and ground type moves should be banned because you only like fire type pokemon.
    If you want to like tell whoever you are going to battle not to use stealth rock, go ahead, I doubt they will really be inclined to listen to you, but it should not be banned just because your particular team is weak to it.
    Its not because of the reason you posted. Its the fact that there 'are' Pokemon that are weak to it and most Pokemon lose 50% of their health to it. No I would not want to ban attacks that my Pokemon are weak to because I can just switch out of that attack. Stealth Rock takes almost no effort to set up and can do massive damage and makes 20 or so Pokemon unusable in a already very limited metagame. Stealth Rocks ruins people strategies. People can't use Focus Sash unless it was a starter, Baton Pass user can't do much and lets Pokemon with 4x weakness to it on one switch in if they don't have recovery moves and most if not all of them will out speed a Pokemon out to even use it. Ghost types stop spinners. The game should not be play what takes less damage from Stealth Rock. The attack should ether be banned or have a attack for competitive play because its to overpowered.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by vaporeon View Post
    I think it should be tested. Its not about, get a spinner or just don't use fliers. I should be able to play my Moltres and Articuno without the lost of 50% of it health on a switch with no effort at all. Evasion and OHKOs were banned because people did not want to was a moveslot or Pokemon to counter them. Both Spikes can be avoided by most Pokemon but Stealth Rocks hits Everything. I for one rather not Change 4 Pokemon in my team to just avoid some rocks.

    I don't think Skymin should be banned because it would be no more broken then Togekiss but thats not the point right now. No Pokemon should come into play losing HP to something you can control especially 50% for almost no setup effort. The spikes take 3 turns to be a threat and fliers can avoid them.

    I rather not put a Pokemon on my team to get rid of rocks.
    I love how you talk so confidently and your arguments show you are not very informed on these matters. Those things were banned because they reduce the SKILL needed to win a game, not because they are hard/easy to counter.

    You rather not put a Pokemon on your team to get rid of Rocks, then you are bound to lose as you are not preparing for your battles correctly.

    Just because you have a preference over whatever type of Pokemon and some thigns work against you doesn't mean they should be banned. If you want to win, use and learn the viable and useful strategies, if not then stop complaining.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by vaporeon View Post
    Its not because of the reason you posted. Its the fact that there 'are' Pokemon that are weak to it and most Pokemon lose 50% of their health to it. No I would not want to ban attacks that my Pokemon are weak to because I can just switch out of that attack. Stealth Rock takes almost no effort to set up and can do massive damage and makes 20 or so Pokemon unusable in a already very limited metagame. Stealth Rocks ruins people strategies. People can't use Focus Sash unless it was a starter, Baton Pass user can't do much and lets Pokemon with 4x weakness to it on one switch in if they don't have recovery moves and most if not all of them will out speed a Pokemon out to even use it. Ghost types stop spinners. The game should not be play what takes less damage from Stealth Rock. The attack should ether be banned or have a attack for competitive play because its to overpowered.
    um, you realize how many OU pokemon are doubly weak to stealth rock? I think 3, probably fewer. (Ninjask comes to mind, Yanmega also) maybe 20 pokemon out of 492+ are doubly weak to it, but most are in UU. it's not overpowered.
    Have you ever thought of the possibilities for the turn you have free to yourself because your opponent wastes it on stealth rock? Most sr pokemon are slow, if they aren't leads, so you could easily taunt, spore, paralyze, aim to KO, etc or set up on them. Also, there is a move called rapid spin. You don't even need a counter.
    lol, I like your point that it ruins focus sash. That's given. But, who has a pokemon with focus sash that isn't a lead anyway? It is in 99% of the time not useful, even on frail pokemon like kazam.
    Pablo made a valued point that you can't blame things that are your fault on a haxish move, sr is perfectly legal and it's normally part of a stalling strategy.
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  15. #15
    Forum Moderator Regis_Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimatedra View Post
    the reason that word is blocked is cuz that site is not family friendly. that site is more for people over the age of 13, so they do not have to deal with much from COPPA.
    Besides the fact that people post links to sites on here much worse than that one...not to mention it's a bit hypocritical both you and Pablo are forum mods here, yet have accounts on said banned site name...

    Anyways, I don't care that much. I think it's a wee bit ridiculous when you're factoring SR damage into your overall damage calcs to nab OHKOs, but on the flip side, SR is incredibly nifty and sets up much quicker than Spikes or even Toxic Spikes. In a way, it also helps to keep things like flying Pokemon and Levitators in check, as Spikes/TS won't hit them. The main problem with SR is that it counts much like a Rock type attack, and chipping up to 50% of a Pokemon's health with it is a bit wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piblo View Post
    um, you realize how many OU pokemon are doubly weak to stealth rock? I think 3, probably fewer. (Ninjask comes to mind, Yanmega also) maybe 20 pokemon out of 492+ are doubly weak to it, but most are in UU. it's not overpowered.
    Have you ever thought of the possibilities for the turn you have free to yourself because your opponent wastes it on stealth rock? Most sr pokemon are slow, if they aren't leads, so you could easily taunt, spore, paralyze, aim to KO, etc or set up on them. Also, there is a move called rapid spin. You don't even need a counter.
    lol, I like your point that it ruins focus sash. That's given. But, who has a pokemon with focus sash that isn't a lead anyway? It is in 99% of the time not useful, even on frail pokemon like kazam.
    Pablo made a valued point that you can't blame things that are your fault on a haxish move, sr is perfectly legal and it's normally part of a stalling strategy.
    Mind you, that is why we have suicide leads, which are fast Pokemon that can set up SR? Azelf, Aerodactyl, Infernape, etc.
    Last edited by Regis_Neo; 12/22/2008 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Doublepost Eliminator
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  16. #16
    1 Rapid Spin undoes Stealth Rock, and takes just as long to use.
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  17. #17
    Forum Moderator Regis_Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meditite rox View Post
    1 Rapid Spin undoes Stealth Rock, and takes just as long to use.
    Until Dusknoir/Gengar/Spiritomb/Ghost type period comes in to block it.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Regis_Neo View Post
    Until Dusknoir/Gengar/Spiritomb/Ghost type period comes in to block it.
    *uses Defog*

    Problem solved. Rapid spin isn't the only way to clear Stealth Rock.
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  19. #19
    defog?
    so....you're going to lower it's evasiveness? How does that stop stealth rock? Uh, maybe foresight would make ghost types sesseptable to normal/fighting moves, but who would waste a turn with a move that doesn't work 90% of all battles?
    suicide leads....
    erm, they set up stealth rock, then die. That's why we have anti-leads like weavile to work against them.
    besides, you are practically given a 6-5 advantage in the beginning, with occasional 25% chance of stealth rock damage. do you know what shoddy is? Because stealth rock is pretty common there, I doubt they would go for a ban of stealth rock, though stealth rock/toxic spikes/spikes clause is sometimes asked about in advance not to be used. (all three at the same time)
    Ugh, stealth rock just forces teams to be prepared for battles. It does hinder certain pokemon from battling, because they can't switch in, but you should just try to counter that with some item, etc. It doesn't decrease the skill needed to win a game, like OHKO moves and evasion moves do, it increases it, because if you're going to run pokemon that are weak to it, you need a counter-strategy. If not, then you are fine, but it is your choice.. Besides, you're not even throwing out valid points on why it should be banned. Certain pokemon can't take a stealth rock. Certain pokemon can't take the spikes drop, or the poisoning toxic spikes gives. And certain ones can't take stealth rock. Run taunt if you need to, but don't ban stealth rock.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Piblo View Post
    defog?
    so....you're going to lower it's evasiveness? How does that stop stealth rock? Uh, maybe foresight would make ghost types sesseptable to normal/fighting moves, but who would waste a turn with a move that doesn't work 90% of all battles?
    suicide leads....
    erm, they set up stealth rock, then die. That's why we have anti-leads like weavile to work against them.
    besides, you are practically given a 6-5 advantage in the beginning, with occasional 25% chance of stealth rock damage. do you know what shoddy is? Because stealth rock is pretty common there, I doubt they would go for a ban of stealth rock, though stealth rock/toxic spikes/spikes clause is sometimes asked about in advance not to be used. (all three at the same time)
    Ugh, stealth rock just forces teams to be prepared for battles. It does hinder certain pokemon from battling, because they can't switch in, but you should just try to counter that with some item, etc. It doesn't decrease the skill needed to win a game, like OHKO moves and evasion moves do, it increases it, because if you're going to run pokemon that are weak to it, you need a counter-strategy. If not, then you are fine, but it is your choice.. Besides, you're not even throwing out valid points on why it should be banned. Certain pokemon can't take a stealth rock. Certain pokemon can't take the spikes drop, or the poisoning toxic spikes gives. And certain ones can't take stealth rock. Run taunt if you need to, but don't ban stealth rock.

    defog is a move where a pokemon flaps to send fog away

    by the way you have a valled point there
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by vaporeon View Post
    Well, should it? I, for one being a huge fan of fliers get really hurt by it. Having the best Pidgeot means nothing when you lose 25% of hp because you're weak to it on a switch it. I'll give some valid points to why. Moltres could easily be OU, not that I care about tiers, but does not see play because it loses 50% of its hp when switching in, despite its good movepool. Articuno being the most definitive bird in the game can't that a Thunderbolt or a super effective attack because it loses half its hp. Just look at your Bug-Flying types, Charizard and others with 4x weakness to rock type attacks and means that a Pokemon that loses 50% of it health can only afford 1 switch it and thats assuming they somewhat have Articunos defense .

    The other field attacks like Spikes and Toxic Spikes can be avoided by Fliers and Pokemon with Levitate while Stealth Rocks hits EVERYTHING with some kind of damage. It ruins Focus Sash users, kills Shedinja, and makes just about 20 or so Pokemon NOT USABLE AT ALL. No attack should limit what Pokemon should or should not be played.

    With Platinums release with Rotom-a, it kills any spinner and all good players know that so there is really not way to stop a good player from keeping Stealth Rocks out . No Pokemon should take damage switching into a battle be it Stealth Rock or Spikes and for only on turn of set up. With the ban of of Stealth Rock, the metagame with open up a lot and re-allow Pokemon like Articuno and Moltres to be played or even Vespiquen. The attack is over powered and should be banned. I have to tell people when they play me, no stealth Rocks because I can't use a lot of my Pokemon when you use it. Most of you might not see it as a problem because a lot of you might use Ground/Steel types but all I am saying it, one no Pokemon should lose 25 or even 50% of their hp when switching in or even take damage switching in.

    I think I covered most of it that I know and I'm sure I can anwser any question you might have about this.
    I agree with vaporeon it should be banned I mean whole Tornoments have been upset by that move
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  22. #22
    Forum Moderator vaporeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piblo View Post
    defog?
    so....you're going to lower it's evasiveness? How does that stop stealth rock? Uh, maybe foresight would make ghost types sesseptable to normal/fighting moves, but who would waste a turn with a move that doesn't work 90% of all battles?
    suicide leads....
    erm, they set up stealth rock, then die. That's why we have anti-leads like weavile to work against them.
    besides, you are practically given a 6-5 advantage in the beginning, with occasional 25% chance of stealth rock damage. do you know what shoddy is? Because stealth rock is pretty common there, I doubt they would go for a ban of stealth rock, though stealth rock/toxic spikes/spikes clause is sometimes asked about in advance not to be used. (all three at the same time)
    Ugh, stealth rock just forces teams to be prepared for battles. It does hinder certain pokemon from battling, because they can't switch in, but you should just try to counter that with some item, etc. It doesn't decrease the skill needed to win a game, like OHKO moves and evasion moves do, it increases it, because if you're going to run pokemon that are weak to it, you need a counter-strategy. If not, then you are fine, but it is your choice.. Besides, you're not even throwing out valid points on why it should be banned. Certain pokemon can't take a stealth rock. Certain pokemon can't take the spikes drop, or the poisoning toxic spikes gives. And certain ones can't take stealth rock. Run taunt if you need to, but don't ban stealth rock.
    Whats not valid about it? Lets see, Articuno, Moltres and other Pokemon with 4x lose 50 of their health ON A SWITCH IN which means 1 safe switch but are still one shotted by a faster Pokemon, your flying type, which can't really take a hit lose 25% of health. What about Fire, Bug and Ice types. That's 4 Pokemon that take at least 25% damage from stealth Rock in the switch in, thats about half if not more of the Pokemon that take massive damage for 1 turn of setup. It ruins Focus Sash users so fragile Pokemon Like Zangoose don't see play or suffer from it. Any smart player would switch a Ghost type in on a suspected spinner which does not do much because that Pokemon still has a chance to setup Stealth Rock later on in the battle.

    Those are valid points, the metagame would be better off without it. I should not have to use only 10 Pokemon just to fight other people.
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  23. #23
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    Stealth Rock encourages you to have an actual strategy. Without it, an entire battle can be spent switching back a forth between certian Pokemon. It makes you think before making a move. There are lots of ways to work around it, but you just have to be open minded and creative. So stop whining, and throw a Rapid Spinner on your team, or stop using Birds. No attack is going to get banned just because you like using Flying-type Pokemon. Maybe Earthquake should get banned next because I like Heatren and it's the strongest, 100% accurate attack in the game, which no negitive side effect.... oh no
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  24. #24
    Forum Moderator vaporeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sar86 View Post
    Stealth Rock encourages you to have an actual strategy. Without it, an entire battle can be spent switching back a forth between certian Pokemon. It makes you think before making a move. There are lots of ways to work around it, but you just have to be open minded and creative. So stop whining, and throw a Rapid Spinner on your team, or stop using Birds. No attack is going to get banned just because you like using Flying-type Pokemon. Maybe Earthquake should get banned next because I like Heatren and it's the strongest, 100% accurate attack in the game, which no negitive side effect.... oh no
    Its not like that. Pokemon can get around Earthquake. If you know someone is going to use it, you switch out. No Pokemon should take weakness damage from Stealth Rock switching in. Like I said, Stealth Rock will keep coming back even if you have a spinner. Its just like the Evasion and OHKOs. Someone said something about them and it got banned for being overpowered. Stealth Rock, 1 attack, put more then half of the Pokemon that can be used out of the game. 1 attack should not have that much control over what Pokemon can and can't be used.

    I'm not whining about anything, I'm bring valid facts to the table. Yeah, I could just not use birds or Pokemon weak to it but, why would I do that, I like what I use.
    Times like this make you wish you had Energy Switch.

  25. #25
    Lol no banneg stealth rock. If your team is weak to rocks use Rapid Spinners or stop using birds. Most people are quite content with the rock filled metagame, SR isn't getting banned (who the heck would want to face all the Sash pokemon that would come out as a result).
    The answer is no vaporeon.

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