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Thread: Heh, a newb wants some deck feedback.

  1. #1

    Heh, a newb wants some deck feedback.

    Hey, I'm new here. Anyway, here's the deck...feel free to edit.

    Pokemon(12)

    Magmar x4 (Fossil)
    Magby x2 (Neo Genesis, or whatever the first Neo set is)
    Electabuzz x2 (Base Set)
    Rocket's Zapdos x2 (Gym Challenge...?)
    Ditto x2 (Fossil)

    Trainers(30)

    Comp Search x4
    Item Finder x4
    Switch x4
    Gust of Wind x4
    Pluspower x4
    Prof. Oak x3
    Bill x3
    Super Potion x2
    Energy Retreival x2

    Energy(18)

    Lightning x8
    Fire x8
    Double Colorless x2

    Thanks in advance for all comments.
    Last edited by BJJ763; 09/09/2003 at 07:47 PM. Reason: "We don't rate decks, we fix them!" Joshman, 2002

  2. #2
    InSaNiTy, with too much energy. For the Pokemon, take out Ditto (2). For the energy, take out 2 of each (8). Now, we go to the Trainers.

    Take out Bill, Super Potion, and Energy Retreival (15). Also, since MAXing serves no purpose in the current game, aside from Pluspower, take out one each of Comp, Switch, ang GOW (18). Now, to add in the disruption. 3 ER, and 3 SER (12). 1 Volunteers will work for recovery (11). Extra card drawing is needed: 3 Copycat, 2 Elm (6). Gymbreaker with extra room: 1 Lucky Stadium (5). With 5 extra spaces, we can play around. Don't put in any new cards, just play around with the numbers of the cards that I suggested. I know that I forgot about something, I just don't know what, hehehe...
    2008 North American Professor Cup Champion
    Minnesota Furious Fists Prereleases || FREE Furious Fists Win-A-Box
    Bullados YouTube Channel
    If you happen to know of a USB, clip-on microphone, please let me know. Thank you!

  3. #3
    Um...are you serious? Ditto plays as a surprise weapon, who works in almost any situation, especially against skilled Haymakers. Besides, ten basic is probably the lowest you can go without making a mulligan almost definite. Bill works as quick drawing power...is this "Copycat" any better? Super Potion is needed recovery I think, especially without anything else. I need lots of energy as ER/SER protection. Four of each card almost guarantees you what you need in a hand, which is perfect, since I play a Haymaker with choice kills. I'm not looking to disrupt, just massacre with some quick power and throw them off with a few status effects if needed. I don't know what Voulnteers is..enlighten me. Also...you can't be serious about extra card drawing. I deck myself almost instantly as is to get my choice kills...extra drawing isn't helping the cause. A Stadium card would be nice, but I don't feel like I have the current space...and I don't like Stadium cards much anyway. Thanks for the feedback though...but no thanks.

  4. #4
    Copycat:
    "Supporter" - You cannot play another "Supporter" card during this turn.

    Shuffle your hand into your deck and draw a number of cards equal to the number of cards in your opponent's hand.

    Are YOU kidding ME?!?!? The MINIMUM number of raw draw cards that ANY competitive deck should have is 5, and Bill is not viable anymore. If you want recovery, go with Focus Band or Gold Berry, both are better than Super Potion. volunteers is Time Capsule, but for your side only. You can also think of it as a powered up NGR. Ditto, as it stands, serves no purpose in competitve play. You'd be better off trying to play Clefable in here. Believe me, energy in a deck should usually be around 11-18, with 13-16 being preferable. Energy Removal doesn't matter when you've got recovery cards like Volunteers, and, considering that every one of your Pokemon can attack for one or 2 energy, you don't need much to begin with. Zappy should never use his second attack: it's just not strong enough without Metal in the Nintendo rules. I know people who play 6-8 basics, and have never mulliganed once. Personally, I play about 8-13 basics in all my decks, and don't mulligan. 3 is as good as 4 in most cases, and is better in some respects. Since you have Finder in there, you can afford to run 3 of a kind maximum on all your trainers, leaving room for more diversity. That's enough for the deckbuilding strategy. GL, HF.
    2008 North American Professor Cup Champion
    Minnesota Furious Fists Prereleases || FREE Furious Fists Win-A-Box
    Bullados YouTube Channel
    If you happen to know of a USB, clip-on microphone, please let me know. Thank you!

  5. #5
    My play style obviously differs from yours then if you think 5 drawing cards are needed. That's just absurd in my opinion...I already run through my deck quite quickly, and if I play any more drawing cards I would deck myself quite easily. Focus Band uses a coin flip, which isn't reliable. There are also ways to play around Gold Berry since you must remove 40 damage. I'll take Super Potion over that just because I can use it whenever, and I'm not taking chances. Voulnteers sounds good, maybe I'll look into getting some. Ditto is insanely useful IMO, and I'm not going to play an Evolution line when I can have Ditto, who is almost as good. You also said energy should be around 11-18...did you miss where I said I play 18? I don't see your problem. Besides, if i get ER'd, I want my Energy now, not hanging around in my deck somewhere. Zap's second attack decimates Haymaker and Rain Dance...in the right situation, this thing is crazy. Your people who play 6 basics and don't pull a mulligan are really lucky then...the ratios lend themselves to one or even two mulligans on average. Diversity isn't needed when what I could add detracts from my deck and its overall sense of focus.

    *end rant*

  6. #6
    11-18 energy were absolute extremes. 18 is a Feraligatr deck, where discarded energy is essential; 11 is InSaNiTy, where the main focus is heavy disruption. 13-16 is the range for most normal decks, especially in Unlimited.

    Like I said, if you like Ditto so much, play Clefable. Why Clefable, do you ask? Look over his first attack. One energy, same power as Ditto. Also, considering that all of your Pokemon attack for one or 2 energy (Zappy doesn't count: his attack is too self-damaging with out Metal to back it up). With 5 card drawing cards, you won't have to worry about the energy being stuck in your deck: you can draw at least once per turn. Usually, in Unlimited, card drawing takes the form of 3 Oak, 2 Elm, 3 Copycat. This maximizes efficiency and raw draw power by enabling you to shuffle things back into your deck, instead of just discarding them. Also, since you are not discarding as much, you will have more in your deck to work with. I know people who run through half of their deck in one TURN, and have NEVER decked ONCE. Volunteers and NGR are the reason for that. Also, Oak is best used when you only have, like, 1-2 cards in your hand other than Oak. Copycat is your general "go-get-me" card, meaning that it can be used in just about any situation where you don't want to discard anything and still get tons of cards. Elm is there because, well, I just plain like him. I think that shuffling in to draw 7, even at the cost of no more Trainers, is almost as good as the Grandaddy himself. In Unlimited, there are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooo many different trainers that should be in most decks, you can't afford to max out on any one of them, aside from PlusPower. 3 Gust, 3 ER, 3 SER, 3 Lass, 3 Oak, 2 Elm, 3 Copycat, 1 Town Volunteers, 3 Focus Band, 2 Gold Berry, 3 Item Finder, 3 Comp Search. That's 31 trainers right there, and you still have to take care of a gymbreaker, which, in most cases, will be something like a Lucky Stadium or Energy Stadium. If you were to max out on just 3-5 of those, you'd have 34-36 trainers, which is too much for any deck. If you are so worried about ER, why do you play Super Potion with no protection? That, IMO, is insane. Super Potion is really only good in, say, a Feraligatr deck, which thrives on discarded Energy cards. Focus Band, while flippy, is better protection against Clefable, Wiggly, and Sneasel than Super Potion is because those 3 can KO pretty much ANY Pokemon one shot. Super Potion can only remove damage when it's on a Pokemon, while Focus Band saves that Pokemon from the Graveyard. That 6 Pokemon deck that I told you about? InSaNiTy, which again is a disruption deck that runs upwards of 40 trainers, Maxing on Lass, ER, and SER.
    2008 North American Professor Cup Champion
    Minnesota Furious Fists Prereleases || FREE Furious Fists Win-A-Box
    Bullados YouTube Channel
    If you happen to know of a USB, clip-on microphone, please let me know. Thank you!

  7. #7
    Ditto is much more splashable though, since you don't have to focus an evolution line. Yes, Zappy does count, in a Haymaker heavy environment. One shot kills are too good to pass up. Copycat isn't great from what I've seen of it...what happens if your opponent has no hand, or less than you currently have? Besides, you only get to play one per turn, which I don't like. Elm is also a bad choice for my deck as well, since it thrives on using GoW/Pluspower to get strategic kills. I'm not a big fan of ER/SER...I'm out to help myself, not screw them over. Besides, there's no space for that anyway. Same with Lass, except I get to screw over myself as well...what joy. Focus band sucks, that's the end of that. Playing 3 almost guarantees that one, two or even all three won't work...then they're just wasted spaces. Coin flips = bad, especially when there's nothing concrete about the card. I don't need a gym-breaker when almost everyone else plays a gym-breaker anyway that doesn't even matter. I've taken care of Clefables and Wigglys before without Focus band, as well as Sneasels. Super Potion, even with the energy discard, is much more flexible than Gold Berry. I can live with a discard or two when I have 18 energy.

    Finally, what happens when someone pulls an anti-Trainer deck on you? That 40 trainer deck is about to get massacred. This deck actually has a chance if that happens.

  8. #8
    yea i no captain obvios ane hes not just here 2 say evrything but his deck sux but he actually wants reasonable respnse...i nean this deck has won a tournament already and came in 2nd twice so hes not lookin 2 change the hole structre just little things 2 improve the deck
    arial If tv is bad 4 u y is there 1 in every hospital room?

  9. #9
    if he doesn't want his deck to improve by leaps and bounds, that's his decision. I am just giving him the greatest possible chance to win given that he wants an old-style Haymaker deck.
    2008 North American Professor Cup Champion
    Minnesota Furious Fists Prereleases || FREE Furious Fists Win-A-Box
    Bullados YouTube Channel
    If you happen to know of a USB, clip-on microphone, please let me know. Thank you!

  10. #10
    I highly doubt you're giving me the greatest chance to win. In fact, I would go so far as to say that you would make my deck worse than it currently is. If someone put together an old-school stall, and I played all of those drawing cards...bye bye game.

  11. #11
    Ditto's fun, but there's one problem with it -- it copies HP. Most players play Babies. They'll get 30 damage on Ditto, retreat to a Baby, get a prize, and keep going. I used to play Ditto all the time before I caught on to that one.
    Every time I think I can't say anything stupider, I prove myself wrong. Maybe I should just stop thinking.

    There's an exception to every rule, except this one. This one has two.

  12. #12
    Yea...but I've only fallen victim to that nasty trick once or twice. I can work around that most of the time...and I usually get that trick to work more than my opponent does, especially with maxed GoW and Item.

  13. #13
    So Ditto's popular in your area? Then drop a Magmar for a Cleffa, so you can pull the "retreat-to-kill" trick a little more often and get a little extra hand changing.
    Every time I think I can't say anything stupider, I prove myself wrong. Maybe I should just stop thinking.

    There's an exception to every rule, except this one. This one has two.

  14. #14
    If only I had a Cleffa...I would definitely do that. In fact, if I had the resources I would play 2 Cleffa. Of course, I don't have one to my name, so it doesn't matter.

  15. #15
    Ouch. Well, do you have Tyrogue? You could use it instead.
    Every time I think I can't say anything stupider, I prove myself wrong. Maybe I should just stop thinking.

    There's an exception to every rule, except this one. This one has two.

  16. #16
    I can get a Tyrogue I think...

    Oh yea, and Bullados...let's see one of your decks. C'mon, I want to see your superior deck making skill (sarcasm intended...).

  17. #17
    look over for my Feraligatr deck.

    I am not a deck MAKER, exactly. I FIX other people's decks, and most of them have come back to beat ME with the fixes that I gave them. When I make a deck, I write down the general deck idea, and work around that for an hour or 2. Then, I put it somewhere safe, and forget about it for a week or so. After that, I come back to it, and fix it accordingly. After doing this for some time, I come up with a decklist that I cannot possibly make any better. When it gets to that point, I post it, and hope that other people pick up the mistakes that I made and correct them. It's a trial and error process, and I have played my role perfectly, as both a deck mech and player.

    Let me see you do what I have done.
    2008 North American Professor Cup Champion
    Minnesota Furious Fists Prereleases || FREE Furious Fists Win-A-Box
    Bullados YouTube Channel
    If you happen to know of a USB, clip-on microphone, please let me know. Thank you!

  18. #18
    Sure, I've done some nice ones on Gamefaqs.com. I just take my experience and apply it over a half hour or so, possibly taking up to three edits. It's quite simple really, since Pokemon only has so many basic strategies.

    You're acting like what you do is impossible. The reality is, you're just incredibly slow with it, so you figure it's gotta be your best work once you get tired of it. That's what I've gathered from that message, anyway...

  19. #19
    Actually, deckbuilding is not a rare skill, just one that requires practice and strategic thinking. It often does take time to really get a deck right, but that's mostly because a good deck is usually playtested during the creation process. I find that I usually can get a first version of a deck done in a half hour to an hour, and edits usually come over the following few days, each one taking maybe 15 minutes at most.
    Every time I think I can't say anything stupider, I prove myself wrong. Maybe I should just stop thinking.

    There's an exception to every rule, except this one. This one has two.

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