Holon WP, UnKnown G or Neither with Empoleon?

[jrwaxman]

So are the benefits of either Holon WP or Unknown G worth it in Empoleon builds? Never liked having the WPs in mine because of the high water energy cost throughout the line. the Unknown seems better but adds to Pachy's damage output.....1 for 70 on the Empoleon is hard to swallow. Sonic Blade is tough on the Penguin though so what is the play?? One or the other....or neither?

[rhodesia123]

i say neither. sonic blade at the most does 90, and if its prevented the gallade will just flip over 1-2 prizes and do 80-90 that way.

[poke_master2008]

You have to play WP... sonic blade hurts more than rhodesia thinks

Sure they can flip over 2 prizes to the 80 damage (1 without DRE) but you should rather play WP and make them flip over prizes so that Gallade isn't as big late game....i mean empoleon has 1 :colorless for both attacks so why not play WP as your :colorless??

[jrwaxman]

When the Gallade player flips cards that plays right into the Empoleon strategy. Once the threat of a OHKO is gone you can usually take care of G&G. It is when they Sonic Blade you two or three times to weaken us all the penguins that you are in real trouble. So, how many WP would you play? How many energy total?

[MrMeches]

Definitely 2 WP.. more than that isn't really needed IMHO!

[mca3]

I played 3 WPs in my Empo/Sableye States deck, I ran into G/G, with a GREAT outcome! I Started with Sableye and Piplup on the bench and a Water, Switch, a WP in my hand! I started with Sableye Disabled his sleep, next turn he RC to Gallade DRE, Sonic blade. Sent me to the bench. Next turn I attached the WP to Sableye, SWITCHED, and Diabled Psychic CUT! He Could NOT attack me for 3 Turns, So BY that time I had 2 Empos built with Energy on 1. He had to retreat Gallade, for another anothetr Gallade, for him to Psychic CUT. I ran Cessation Cryusatal, so Gardy wasnt needed, I had WPs on both Empos, so that HELPED me beat that G/G deck! By the way, that G/G player went 5-1 in Swiss rounds, ONLY losing to me in the 3rd round, so...Empo is STILL a BEAST to be Reckoned with!!! My NEW Empo deck is more improved and possibly better than that one.

So, go with ATLEAST 3 WPs when running Empo!!!

[MrMeches]

Originally Posted by mca3

I played 3 WPs in my Empo/Sableye States deck, I ran into G/G, with a GREAT outcome! I Started with Sableye and Piplup on the bench and a Water, Switch, a WP in my hand! I started with Sableye Disabled his sleep, next turn he RC to Gallade DRE, Sonic blade. Sent me to the bench. Next turn I attached the WP to Sableye, SWITCHED, and Diabled Psychic CUT! He Could NOT attack me for 3 Turns, So BY that time I had 2 Empos built with Energy on 1. He had to retreat Gallade, for another anothetr Gallade, for him to Psychic CUT. I ran Cessation Cryusatal, so Gardy wasnt needed, I had WPs on both Empos, so that HELPED me beat that G/G deck! By the way, that G/G player went 5-1 in Swiss rounds, ONLY losing to me in the 3rd round, so...Empo is STILL a BEAST to be Reckoned with!!! My NEW Empo deck is more improved and possibly better than that one.

So, go with ATLEAST 3 WPs when running Empo!!!

Just so you know for future reference, the opponent wouldn't have been able to Sonic Blade your Sableye even without the WP attached. Once your pokemon is at 50HP or less, the attack fails do to the order of the attack. It must place at least one damage counter before it can move to the switch part. I am pretty sure it is in the Compendium EX as it was asked in "Ask the Masters" a while ago. So essentially you burned a WP but you probably didn't know at the time it couldn't do the switching. Congrats on doing well with Empo!

~Prof. Fish~

Looked it up and here you go:

== SONIC BLADE (Gallade - DP:Secret Wonders)

Q. If a Defending Pokemon has 50 HP or less remaining, does Gallade's "Sonic Blade" attack still switch the Defending Pokemon?
A. No. That effect of Sonic Blade only happens if you put 1 or more damage counters on the Defending Pokemon. (DP:Secret Wonders FAQ; Nov 15, 2007 PUI Rules Team)

[Time for Pain]

Originally Posted by MrMeches

Just so you know for future reference, the opponent wouldn't have been able to Sonic Blade your Sableye even without the WP attached. Once your pokemon is at 50HP or less, the attack fails do to the order of the attack. It must place at least one damage counter before it can move to the switch part. I am pretty sure it is in the Compendium EX as it was asked in "Ask the Masters" a while ago. So essentially you burned a WP but you probably didn't know at the time it couldn't do the switching. Congrats on doing well with Empo!

~Prof. Fish~

but sableye starts with 60HP so he probably placed 1 counter and sent him away

[Ignatious]

Originally Posted by Time for Pain

~Prof. Fish~

but sableye starts with 60HP so he probably placed 1 counter and sent him away

Then he could have brought up the Sableye, attached somewhere other than Sableye, and still stalled with Disable.

[mca3]

I did, and it helped me setup a couple of Empoleons, with WPs attached to those. But, without Sableye CG as a Starter, Cesslock, and those WPs, I probably would have lost that game! I guess I prepared for the worst!!!

[MrMeches]

Originally Posted by Time for Pain

~Prof. Fish~

but sableye starts with 60HP so he probably placed 1 counter and sent him away

That is what he detailed. Then on the next turn he mentioned playing a switch to Bring Sableye back out and attached the WP to Sableye which he didn't need to do. He could have energy dropped on another Pokemon instead of the WP on Sableye, but I understand sometimes you get in the moment of the game!

Originally Posted by Ignatious

Then he could have brought up the Sableye, attached somewhere other than Sableye, and still stalled with Disable.

Exactly.. thnaks for the insight on what I was saying.. guess next time I will detail out what I a minferring! Thanks!!

Originally Posted by mca3

I did, and it helped me setup a couple of Empoleons, with WPs attached to those. But, without Sableye CG as a Starter, Cesslock, and those WPs, I probably would have lost that game! I guess I prepared for the worst!!!

It does definitely help a lot! The reason I suggested only 2 is the Tech Unown G you could have in there as well! If no Unown G, then def 3 WP! Good job on the list!

[mca3]

Well, I DID run 2 Unknown Gs at SC states, BUT lost 2 games to Unknown G starts, which are HORRIBLE!!! They are good techs, BUT horrible to start with! That is when I made the Switch to 3 WPs, and the 4th Sableye which was a HUGE improvemnt to the deck. Thanks Mr Meches, for the help on the situation, I am glad you told me that!