TT - Calm Down!

[vaporeon]

Originally Posted by baby mario

T&T are simply doing what the market is telling them to do.

TPCI can't do anything about it. What should they do? Refuse to supply T&T? Would that even be legal?

Yeah I agree it sucks, but there is nothing anyone can do about it short of players refusing to buy at those prices (and we all know that's not gonna happen) or another retailer coming in to undercut them.

T&T are a business and trying to maximise their profits. Why would they sell for less than they can get?

I don't expect TPCi to refuse supply to them. I expect them to lift the burden of price of these cards on us. After all, they don't profit from Mewtwo EX being 80 bucks. What I expect them to do is release cards like that as Tin promos or blister pack promos as a 'we'll still supply to you but will continue to do this' type thing when the price for a card becomes over the top.

[DJGigabyte]

Releasing cards as promos if a price becomes too high is a great way for TPCi to annoy people who had already paid for the cards.

In the end you'd get people too scared to make the investment.

[vaporeon]

Originally Posted by DJGigabyte

One simple answer is, if you can't afford Mewtwo or Darkrai, play a deck that doesn't use Mewtwo or Darkrai.

As far as I know, Durant is still a pretty competitive deck, and that runs solely on commons and uncommons (one rare if you include Rotom, which most do).

This is pretty much the only game where a deck like this exists, I don't think YGO or Magic have any decks built around cheap, non-rares which still remain competitive.

What T&T is doing has no effect on the game, what they are doing is running a business. If T&T got shut down (and the rest of the online card stores), then the only place to get cards would be eBay. Then rather than having a store whcih offered the cards, you'd only have people opening packs and selling them.

$45 is not crazy for a highly competitive and desirable card, and Pokemon does not need to do anything about it.

A healthy secondary market just proves the popularity of the game.

A deck does not not need Darkrai to be competitive. Not everyone wants to play Durant. Mewtwo is needed to be competitive or you get swept by them. 45 bucks for a single card is insane when you know the price will continue to go up. I expect Raikou EX to be 60 by the end of the day and it will only go up. For once, don't think about yourself but the health of the game.

People are not going to play if they can't afford the cards they need to be competitive with.

[DJGigabyte]

I understand that not everyone wants to play Durant, but if thy are restricted by funds, then the option is there. If you only have the money to afford Durant, then the choice becomes Durant or a cheap rogue deck. If you refuse to use either of these when you can afford anything better then you're only hurting yourself.

If Raikou EX is up to $60 by the end of the day, it is because of this thread, and this thread alone. People are reading crazy predictions of price increase, they start panic buying the card, the crazy price increase happens.

I am not just thinking about myself, I am mainly a collector, I very rarely spend money on competitive cards, but I still managed to go to Regionals with a deck containing 2 Zekrom Ex, Mewtwo ex among others, just from borrowing from friends.

The health of the game is not decreasing, and won't decrease purely on people having to choose to play a cheaper deck option.

[baby mario]

Originally Posted by vaporeon

I don't expect TPCi to refuse supply to them. I expect them to lift the burden of price of these cards on us. After all, they don't profit from Mewtwo EX being 80 bucks. What I expect them to do is release cards like that as Tin promos or blister pack promos as a 'we'll still supply to you but will continue to do this' type thing when the price for a card becomes over the top.

They profit from NEX selling out as everyone chases Mewtwos ;)

What you are asking is completely unrealistic. There simply isn't time to respond to secondary market price jumps by releasing promos like that.

Besides, why would anyone buy stuff from the set if they knew any valuable or chase cards were going to be a $5 promo by next week?

The only solution which I can see working would be if TPCI released cards at the same time as Japan, and they were super careful about not leaking scans.

Actually, I would like that for a lot of reasons. Cards get hyped for so long in advance that people are bored with them by the time they are released.

[Freudinio]

Originally Posted by DJGigabyte

One simple answer is, if you can't afford Mewtwo or Darkrai, play a deck that doesn't use Mewtwo or Darkrai.

As far as I know, Durant is still a pretty competitive deck, and that runs solely on commons and uncommons (one rare if you include Rotom, which most do).

This is pretty much the only game where a deck like this exists, I don't think YGO or Magic have any decks built around cheap, non-rares which still remain competitive.

What T&T is doing has no effect on the game, what they are doing is running a business. If T&T got shut down (and the rest of the online card stores), then the only place to get cards would be eBay. Then rather than having a store whcih offered the cards, you'd only have people opening packs and selling them.

$45 is not crazy for a highly competitive and desirable card, and Pokemon does not need to do anything about it.

A healthy secondary market just proves the popularity of the game.

Yep, even the WoW TCG where I play competitively have issues, while you can build somewhat competitive with mediocre rares, most top tier decks still run ~1k$.

[Charranitar]

Don't really see the complaint about what Troll and Toad is doing, it's just supply and demand economics at work.

Troll and Toad runs their store website on the Amazon Marketplace software, and the card prices on the websites are controlled by algorithms (how much people are buying, how fast they're selling, etc.) all affect the price.

They're really doing us a favor by even making them available for $10 to start with. They could easily start cards like Darkrai or Tornadus EX at $30, because that's where the market will take them, but by providing them at $10 to start, they allow some players to get good deals on the cards.

I got 2 Darkrai EX for $25, 4 Tornadus EX for $10 and a FA for $14, 1 Groudon EX for $10, FA for $14, 3 Raikou EX for $10 and a FA for $14. That's not too bad imo going into pre-releases. Just need to find 2 Darkrai, and maybe 1 more Groudon in my boxes/pre-releases and I'll be good to go.

And releasing every good card as a tin promo would be bad for business. Why would anyone buy boxes or packs if they could just get all the good cards for $5 each?

And this game isn't all that expensive. I'm a college student, working full time with no parental support, and I'm able to afford any competitive cards I need. When I graduate in a month and get a better paying job, I won't even have to really budget some money away to afford the cards.

If you really can't afford the cards, and you really want to play, you might want to consider what you can do to improve your life situation to be able to afford luxuries like this.

[Team CREAM]

IMO, I think those prices are damn good right now. Stop complaining.

[King Piplup]

Prices up again by the way...

On another note, what kind of attack name is VOLT BOLT?!?!?

[flygon_frank_66]

And Troll & Toad is loving all it's sudden publicity.

[Steelix_281]

I just signed up for this forum and just recently started playing again. I'm a college student and where I can see people complaining about a $40+ card it isn't T&T fault its all the players. They keep buying at whatever price T&T puts it at and they leave it like that for awhile and then T&T pushes their luck again by trying to make the most money per card. All they are doing is simple capitalism making the most money they can while in a private company. I mean they have to make money so they can pay their employees, all the TCG companies for their inventory, and pay for their warehouses or buildings. Like I stated before I'm just a college student but I could even afford some of the more expensive cards if I ever get to the point where I want to start playing on a competitive level. If you can't afford the really expensive cards than go with a cheap competitive deck or use your brain and see if you can come up with a different deck to beat the more expensive ones its that simple.

[Tagrineth]

Originally Posted by vaporeon

This is the reason why 'poor' players can't win or play or trade for cards needed to do well because T&T keeps doing this. There's no need for a card to be over 15 at most. It's also annoying that the company does nothing about this. Releasing mewtwo ex in a tin or blister pack fixes the price almost over night.

Are you somehow implying that Troll and Toad is the sole reason that cards have value above $15?

OK look at it this way. You get three EX in a box that has a $120 MSRP.

Generally card prices balance out so that if you were to resell everything you got in the box, you make back close to what you paid (assuming you don't pull all the worst cards, or whatnot).

If all EX were $15 (and maybe $20 for the FA), each box's SRs would amount to a paltry $50. The investment would be trashed and nobody would resell singles.

Anyway, it's all supply and demand. High demand off the same supply means prices go up. It's that simple.

Also, I scored five FA Raikou EX for $14 each. Booya.

[vaporeon]

Originally Posted by Tagrineth

Are you somehow implying that Troll and Toad is the sole reason that cards have value above $15?

OK look at it this way. You get three EX in a box that has a $120 MSRP.

Generally card prices balance out so that if you were to resell everything you got in the box, you make back close to what you paid (assuming you don't pull all the worst cards, or whatnot).

If all EX were $15 (and maybe $20 for the FA), each box's SRs would amount to a paltry $50. The investment would be trashed and nobody would resell singles.

Anyway, it's all supply and demand. High demand off the same supply means prices go up. It's that simple.

Also, I scored five FA Raikou EX for $14 each. Booya.

Yeah, thats about right. I did by the last FA Raikou ex they had. I did go crazy on the preorders so its as much of my fault as everyone elses.

[cookymonster]

insider trading!!!!!! its the 90s all over

[Skitty]

Originally Posted by Tagrineth

Are you somehow implying that Troll and Toad is the sole reason that cards have value above $15?

OK look at it this way. You get three EX in a box that has a $120 MSRP.

Generally card prices balance out so that if you were to resell everything you got in the box, you make back close to what you paid (assuming you don't pull all the worst cards, or whatnot).

If all EX were $15 (and maybe $20 for the FA), each box's SRs would amount to a paltry $50. The investment would be trashed and nobody would resell singles.

Anyway, it's all supply and demand. High demand off the same supply means prices go up. It's that simple.

Also, I scored five FA Raikou EX for $14 each. Booya.

Actually it would be close to that if the EXs were $15 each. If you're going by the prices that some card shops sell boxes at ($79 for ND for example). If you're going by MSRP then blisters usually have strange odds so that throws the whole value out of the window anyway.

2 regular EXs per box $15 each = $30
1 FA EX $20
36 RHs ¢15 each = $5.50
12 holo rares $1 each = $12
Non-foil bulk ¢3 each x 290ish = $9

Total of $76.50. So even counting the good/playable trainers at ¢3 each and the good/playable holos/RHs as cheap bulk you're still almost getting back the price of a box. So if you factor in that at least some cards will be worth more than the cheap bulk prices, then you're already guaranteed to get more than what you payed for the box, even if you count every EX as only $15 or $20 each.

[sdrawkcab]

There are only 190 commons in booster box

[espeon200]

Originally Posted by sdrawkcab

There are only 190 commons in booster box

Non-foil bulk includes regular rares, commons, and uncommomns. Of those, you're guaranteed a certain amount of commons and uncommons (180 and 108 respectively). The variation would be on how many of your rare cards were foil, but we're assuming 12 since foil odds are roughly 1 in 3 packs. That means your non-foil bulk will be around 212 cards per booster box.

[dark wobbuffet]

If more stuff was playable and less junk was printed, we would win as card prices would be lower and there would be a more interesting meta, and pokemon would win people would be more likely to buy boosters, knowing theyll get at least something good rather than just buying singles and also because more people might take up the game.

[TheDarkTwins]

I think you will see a better balance with this set. I wouldn't be shocked if all the Ex are 20$ from this set because there is no true $50+ card. I still don't understand why there is no Suicune Ex.

Drew

[Nanashii]

$45 for regular Raikou EX and 55 for the Full Art?

[TheDancingPeanut]

I am pretty sure their prices are calculated by automation.

[ashestowake]

I spen 3 hours typing them a mail with 900 cards to sell them and they sent this back to not only me but they attached 4 other people mailing them to it too "It appears some of your cards do not follow our websites formant, please retype and send again thx" and Im pretty sure I did everything thier website wanted.

Pissed me off.

[RichD]

In my dreams, this is what happens. All of the people that argue that the price of Pokemon cards in the secondary market is too high must band together, pool their money, and start a company that sells Pokemon cards at the price they think is fair. Moreover, these people are going to have to go big because if they can't match T&T and the rest for inventory then people will just buy cheap and resell at mark-up. A big competitor undercutting the others on price is about the only thing that will shift these price points.

[FrostyFluxy]

RichD, that is business. Troll & Toad are a business, there not going to make money sellling at the lowest possible price they can so we all can buy them cheaply. Business' tend to go for what they can get. As T&T are so popular many people will buy from them for what ever the price. This doesnt mean its right, as Waynegg has in his sig. TrollandToad is Not a price guide. I really don't see why everyone here is making such a fuss about this. If you don't like the prices, go somewhere else.
Posted with Mobile style...

[cookymonster]

Originally Posted by FrostyFluxy

RichD, that is business. Troll & Toad are a business, there not going to make money sellling at the lowest possible price they can so we all can buy them cheaply. Business' tend to go for what they can get. As T&T are so popular many people will buy from them for what ever the price. This doesnt mean its right, as Waynegg has in his sig. TrollandToad is Not a price guide. I really don't see why everyone here is making such a fuss about this. If you don't like the prices, go somewhere else.
Posted with Mobile style...

+1 on this trollandtoll is a business and business are meant to mkae money so i dont know why people complain tyt follows the main rule of business and that is buy low and sell high so as long as the demand is there tyt will keep up with those prices if you dont like it buy a booster box or trade for the cards