Eliminating scrubs from expert games

[Cyrus]

Originally Posted by acktacky

I don't think the system proposed it fair at all. I didn't start playing the game until I had enough cards to make one of my IRL decks--which can compete decently with the top tiers. I just got 100 wins a week ago, and some of you are saying that I wouldn't be able to play expert that entire time?

I read somewhere (either on the PTCGO forums, or in the little preloader text) that the game automatically tries to match you up with an opponent that has a similar ranking to you. However, it depends on who is online playing at the time, so you may get stuck with a starter deck player. I think that's a good enough system for me.

Feel free to criticize several other aspects of what I suggested (assuming that's what you're referencing), but you really have no reason to believe that it is "unfair." Even if someone people reach the 100 win threshold faster, everyone still has the same chance: you aren't held back by ELO, CP, P!P, or any other measure of activity outside of the game.

Is that 100 win idea imperfect? Probably, but so's having to get paired against basic green at any point.

Are either scenarios unfair, though? No.

[Hammertime]

PTCGO has decided to eliminate everyone from Expert games.

[GodBlessAmerica]

I think they should ditch "expert matches" and introduce "ranked matches". They should also scrap "beginner matches" and introduce "practice matches". The results of practice matches don't count towards your win/loss ratio or your ranking, while ranked matches do. You are paired in ranked matches against people that are of a similar ranking. Maybe have ELO be the factor for determining who you are paired up with. People with an ELO of 1600-1700 are paired with each other, people with a rating below 1600 are paired up, etc.

[vegitalian]

IMO, the best way to do this is solely based on collection and have three levels:

1) Novice: Unlocked by everyone, only mode for people with starter decks and no extras in their collection

2) Medium: Unlocked by anyone that has a set amount of cards (121+, for example) in their collection

3) Advanced: Unlocked by anyone that has a set amount of cards (1000+?) in their collection

This would allow players that have taken time to build interesting or competitive decks to play against cards that they might actually see in tournaments.

I cringe every time I see someone flip a Togepi.

Ogremarauder, I think you've made your points very clear - posting them more frequently doesn't make them any more valid. My recommendation doesn't belittle players, it just allows them to play within their own collection range. If someone just has basic yellow, chances are they're learning the game, so exposing them to a wider pool of cards is a bad idea.

Also, I don't want a 1-21 record because I've had to concede to 21 basic yellow decks before I got a real game in the EXPERT game lobby of all places.

[kakle]

What i don't like is getting hate from people because i was able to get a decent deck, I've stopped using my darkrai/hydreigon because of the number of time outs when they see Darkrai, had one chap tell me I'm " A 40yo stay at home mother" while he was using basic yellow deck in expert. If the opponent isn't having fun then I might be inadvertently causing them to stop playing which i don't want to do, but at same time they selected expert before they were ready, I'm going to finish the game and prey its quick.

I want to play a fair game but i don't feel that playing with basic yellow will teach me very much, so i run with as good decks as i know how, I'm still pretty new and I'm not an "expert" but I'm no novice. I played one game of novice with a theme deck, and although opponent was an appropriate deck, it was way better than the basic yellow that I'm used to on expert mode.

I'm against the championship points, because unless Pokemon allows us to start a league in our state(not American) only way I'd get a championship point is to fly, if they had more modes like a "champion mode" then i think that is fine, what I'd like personally like is these modes: theme deck, novice, intermediate, advanced decks and for ranked matches to be out.

I kinda like the card requirement, but at same time when trading comes out some people might just get the cards they want for their deck, forcing some one with an uber deck to play novice and ranked only is a little cruel.

[Rainbowgym]

I concede a lot, so my record will be bad.
Sometimes I don't mind to play a few games against Togechu, but enough is enough.

Not sure how this could be "fair". but players with pure starterdecks should indeed not play expert games.

[sebastianlugo]

I get your point but is almost impossible, Pokemon TCGO staff dont care about good or bad players they care about selling boosters they want more costumers dont care if they are pros or geeks.

[Frostosti]

pros or geeks, thats the same lol. I assume you mean pros or newbies

[sebastianlugo]

Originally Posted by Frostosti

pros or geeks, thats the same lol. I assume you mean pros or newbies

No I meant what I said.

Noob is an unskilled

Geek is the kind of player who keeps using rescue scarf

[Exitilus]

I'll chime in as one of the "Less Experienced Players".

A few things to consider:
What is PTCGO trying to accomplish? Trying to set up a testing arena for their TCG market to play around with? That may be part of it but they have put a lot of money and resources into it and expect a return on investment. They are setting up the building blocks of on online version of TCG that will generate income, allow for league/tourney/events (basically everything they do with the TCG but in addition reach the entire market of people on the internet).

Next: What are players trying to get out of playing online? Someone else to test their deck against? That's what the friend feature is for, problem solved.
For players like myself, I want someone to play against. I consider myself competitive, make the best decks I can with the limited amount of cards I have and like to play in Expert mode because I learn better/quicker playing against an 'Elite deck' then just reading about it on the internet. It also opens up other ideas which are outside the box. Matchups or combinations which don't normally occur when everyone is just playing a cookie cutter 'elite deck'.

Does playing a starter Togechu deck really not allow you to test your deck? You can test for consistency, draws, effectiveness, all kinds of stuff even if it isn't a 'challenging' matchup.

I was playing the other night and using a noobish deck in Expert mode and I got matched up against a Mewtwo EX (Eels,Zekrom) 4 games back to back. And yes, I don't think I took a single prize in all 4 matches. Did I enjoy it, yes, did I get some good experience, yes.

Honestly (and this coming from a noob) if the game is so broken that there are only a few 'elite' decks and everyone just uses variations of those decks, then they really need to do something about the formats. If they are going to move PTCGO in a separate path they have an excellent arena for testing other format before introducing them to their TCG players/system.

I've rambled enough. The other benefit I find of playing against elite deck is gleaning information off the player using the deck via in game chat.

Oh, and how do you say 'Thanks for sharing this post', I can't seem to figure out how to do that. (Noob to this forum as well!)

[NeoChamp25]

Originally Posted by Exitilus

I'll chime in as one of the "Less Experienced Players".

A few things to consider:
What is PTCGO trying to accomplish? Trying to set up a testing arena for their TCG market to play around with? That may be part of it but they have put a lot of money and resources into it and expect a return on investment. They are setting up the building blocks of on online version of TCG that will generate income, allow for league/tourney/events (basically everything they do with the TCG but in addition reach the entire market of people on the internet).

Next: What are players trying to get out of playing online? Someone else to test their deck against? That's what the friend feature is for, problem solved.
For players like myself, I want someone to play against. I consider myself competitive, make the best decks I can with the limited amount of cards I have and like to play in Expert mode because I learn better/quicker playing against an 'Elite deck' then just reading about it on the internet. It also opens up other ideas which are outside the box. Matchups or combinations which don't normally occur when everyone is just playing a cookie cutter 'elite deck'.

Does playing a starter Togechu deck really not allow you to test your deck? You can test for consistency, draws, effectiveness, all kinds of stuff even if it isn't a 'challenging' matchup.

I was playing the other night and using a noobish deck in Expert mode and I got matched up against a Mewtwo EX (Eels,Zekrom) 4 games back to back. And yes, I don't think I took a single prize in all 4 matches. Did I enjoy it, yes, did I get some good experience, yes.

Honestly (and this coming from a noob) if the game is so broken that there are only a few 'elite' decks and everyone just uses variations of those decks, then they really need to do something about the formats. If they are going to move PTCGO in a separate path they have an excellent arena for testing other format before introducing them to their TCG players/system.

I've rambled enough. The other benefit I find of playing against elite deck is gleaning information off the player using the deck via in game chat.

Oh, and how do you say 'Thanks for sharing this post', I can't seem to figure out how to do that. (Noob to this forum as well!)

While i can agree with what you said here i can also understand why players who have great resources aren't wanting to face these decks on a regular basis. The problem is double sided and unless they get some sort of ranking system up in the future these issues will continue. It also happens the other way around to, i went into a novice match earlier today and on the card flip i turned over a Nidoran female and a psychic Victini and my opponent flipped over 2 Giratina... i was like you have to be kidding me. Anyway like i said good solid point about seeing how the deck can draw and match up against stronger decks then just other basic started decks.

[Tekhno4Ever]

Beginner: anyone can play

Intermediate: you must open at least 50 booster packs; thus you have started a deck building collection.

Expert: you have opened at least 100 booster packs and addition to this you have at least 50 total wins.

[solo59486]

Originally Posted by Tekhno4Ever

Beginner: anyone can play

Intermediate: you must open at least 50 booster packs; thus you have started a deck building collection.

Expert: you have opened at least 100 booster packs and addition to this you have at least 50 total wins.

50 and 100 packs isn't enough to build a viable deck unless you get extremely lucky in your pulls.

[ecastle2]

Originally Posted by solo59486

50 and 100 packs isn't enough to build a viable deck unless you get extremely lucky in your pulls.

Truth

I've pulled like 350 packs and I still don't have the deck I want yet. I'm having trouble getting that last Darkrai and a few Mewtwos.

[solo59486]

Originally Posted by ecastle2

Truth

I've pulled like 350 packs and I still don't have the deck I want yet. I'm having trouble getting that last Darkrai and a few Mewtwos.

Same here i've opened over 200 packs and still haven't gotten the cards yet to complete my deck

[bullados]

Win percentage, then? Or some combination of win percentage and matches played? Like, in order to get into Intermediate, you need to have played 50 matches and have a 50% win rate; to get into Advanced, you need to have played 50 Intermediate matches and have a 50% win rate in Intermediate.

And, as far as Exitilus is concerned... What we're asking for is that players that have an obvious advantage not have to play the TogeChu games over and over again. For me, it's rather boring to play those matches 4-6 times in a row. I have no problems with players having different skill or collection levels all playing. But please build some way to allow people of similar abilities to play each other by default.

[Exitilus]

Originally Posted by bullados

But please build some way to allow people of similar abilities to play each other by default.

I would consider myself to have the same ability as any of the players running 'competitive decks' I just don't have the cards yet to build the decks I want (as I am sure is the case with 90% or more of the players online). The few previous posts show it pretty clearly, even after opening 300+ packs, without trade they don't have a fully competitive deck. The game is 'free' anyone who just started since this release only has togechu to play unless they have opened a ton of packs. Anyone who wants to test out the game will have played Trainer Challenge, popped into the Novice room (which also has competitive decks) and popped into Expert room. I would say just by sheer number (those with togechu compared to those with competitive decks) you are likely to get matched up with 'scrubs'.

It will all get taken care of. The game is BETA and has only been out for a few weeks. Friends is up.

Go to Chat (three heads icon at top) in game, click on Friend tab, type the screen name of the person you want to add, and hit ENTER. They do the same on their end (you might have to accept request) and then you can Friend Battle against those few other players who do already have their competitive deck put together. If you have added someone by their screen name here in Pokegym but they aren't online you can also try to find players using 'BW on competitive decks' in the chat feature (lower left). Go to "Battle Challenge" and request matches. When someone responds challenge them via friend chat.

Trading will be up and when it does you will see a lot more people with various kinds of decks even if they are not all 'competitive'.

Formats will be added where you can ensure that you are only facing decks of the same type of format you want to play against.

I think ogremarauder said it well back on the first page. The tone of the thread seems very condescening. There are current solutions depending on what you are looking for out of the game, complaining doesn't really get anyone anywhere. I also would get tired of just playing against or playing the same deck (even a competitive one) over and over.

(and when I say "you" I mean all of us in general, whoever is reading the post)

[thematteo0]

To be honest we can't moan now about problems in expert with new people with bad decks as we have the friend feature so there's no need for expert. That means that I can test V people who have all the competitive decks and cards like me. But upon testing on expert at certain times most of my matches have been v pro decks rather than scrubs [I am not sure If the fact that I have won over 1500 matches has something to do with this] .

[UnpokemonMom]

I would love an intermediate level. I don't like beating novices, but hate going up against all the Mewtwo and Darkrai decks with only my lone Terrakion and Kyurem EXs.

[Dendrobatida]

Until trading is reintroduced, I'm thinking it's not viable to restrict anyone based on anything, unless your intent is to tier players by economic means. I'm a high-calibre tournament winning (multiple states n' regionals, t8's at nationals, etc.) player who flat out knows how to build decks, but for all of that I haven't obtained enough codes to make what I'd call a truly viable deck. I've traded cards for codes, attended prereleases to get codes, won packs in tournaments to get codes, have received codes from friends who don't play online, and still my best decks are of the arcanine/volcarona variety. Without the ability to "proxy" cards online, without the ability to trade, without the ability to single out individual cards for purchase, the competitiveness of your deck is largely based on pack-pull luck or sheer volume of codes obtained. I don't think either of those is a sign of actual effectiveness as a player, and thus installing rankings based on either collection size or content of deck at this point is pretty hollow, no?

[Frostosti]

if you want to get rid of the started decks in expert mode, simply reward the novice games also with 1 trainer token after the battle. (or remove the trainer token from expert games).

Trainer tokens are still useless for now, but most likely will be able to do something in the future. So there is no point to play novice games with no reward whatsoever at all when you can just as easily join an expert game and still receive a token even if you lose.
Since ofcourse we all hope that we can buy booster packs with tokens one day.

[NoDice]

I just though of this solution while playing a HGSS-on player with a BW on deck. Simply put-

Novice is Unlimited (HGSS- on)

Expert is BW-on ONLY

Easy fix. Eliminates Starter decks in the Expert field, and stops people from abusing broken card combos as well.

[Politoed666]

Also keeps a bunch of terrible players in the Expert field as long as they switch out their Ampharos lines with Galvantula lines.

[solo59486]

We can also divide it by age divisions. We already put our birthdays in so it would know how old we are already and cancel out the other divisions. This way the masters can stop playing juniors and seniors. Also they can add in the ELO system to have the best people play each other in their own divisions.

[King Piplup]

Originally Posted by solo59486

We can also divide it by age divisions. We already put our birthdays in so it would know how old we are already and cancel out the other divisions. This way the masters can stop playing juniors and seniors. Also they can add in the ELO system to have the best people play each other in their own divisions.

No thanks...That'd be disgusting for the serious Seniors/Juniors, and from what I've noticed, there are more randoms on there that are Masters age than anything.