Pure Lock: Glaceon and Vileplume

[bullados]

This is just a thought-experiment I've been tossing around for a couple of months. What would happen to a deck if it were in some kind of lock from turn 1 until the end of the game? Either Power or Trainer lock would work. I tried a Glaceon/G8r deck earlier this year, and it showed promising results, but was a bit fragile for the format. Now, with more locking options, I'm ready to try Glaceon again and see how it works...

Pokemon (23):
4 Spiritomb
3 Eevee MD-62
3 Glaceon RR-41
1 Glaceon LvX
3 Uxie
1 Uxie LvX
1 Azelf
2 Oddish LA-112
2 Gloom LA-96
2 Vileplume
1 Unown Q

Trainers (23):
4 Bebe
4 Premier Ball
4 BTS
2 Collector
4 PONT
1 Palmer
4 Level Max

Energy (14):
10 Water
4 Grass

Like I said, it's kinda an eclectic mix here. The strategy is to start with Spiritomb or somehow switch into a Spiritomb turn 1. Now, your opponent can't Spray your Uxies, and you can spend a turn or two setting up your Glaceon. You should only need 2 turns to get it into play with BTS and Uxie floating around the deck. Attacking isn't the important thing here. It's setting up your Bodies so that your opponent is reliant completely on topdecking and lucksacking his way to victory. 70 and possible Spread or 50 and possible Paralyze should be enough in most situations. Plus, you've still got your Level Maxes to find your Uxie and Glaceon. It shouldn't take too long to get your stuff into play. Q is there to ensure Tomb's safe retreat or a quick out for Uxie in a pinch.

As always, I'm kinda hung on consistency and speed issues here. I want to Level Max, but Tomb scares me. I want to use my Trainers, but Plume scares me as well. How do I build around these issues?

[kamz]

dude 4 premier balls is way too much

[Kayle]

Playing Level Max and Premier Ball is disillusioning in a trainer lock deck. You can't do that - it doesn't make sense. In my own Vileplume-based deck I removed ALL trainers - even Rare Candy and Luxury Ball. They were mere hand clutter and I needed to learn to survive without them.

Remove all of the Level Maxes and Premier Balls. You should never be able to play them anyway, you should go from Spiritomb lock to Vileplume lock and slow the opponent down as much as possible; Glaceon needs all the support she can get. To make up for the loss of consistency I used Prof. Elm to complement Bebe's Search... but then, I also have Sunflora for multiple-search-per-turn. So for you, more draw supporters might be good. Heck, I've even seen Dodrio and Noctowl (draw a card powers) used to some effectiveness; if you have bench space to spare, why not?

Do you really need the grass energy? Do you think Call Energy would help your consistency at all or would its temptation just slow you down?

Have you considered the MD-5 Glaceon? Not having damage reduction sucks, but Snow Cloak wins games.

Also, do you ever intend to add some Fire and a Flareon as a Dialga counter? I completely understand not having one right now - testing phase decks should max consistency first and tech later - but I guess I was making sure you'd thought of it.

[nnaann]

Don't get all the PONT hype in general. With a lock like this, your opponent is gonna have a huge hand - Copycat is ridiculously good.

[Kayle]

Originally Posted by nnaann

Don't get all the PONT hype in general. With a lock like this, your opponent is gonna have a huge hand - Copycat is ridiculously good.

give this man a cookie.

Four of each would be excessive. Four Copycat and maybe two PONT?

Cynthia also plays nice with cards like Spiritomb, so you can consider that.

[wyoungb]

Originally Posted by nnaann

Don't get all the PONT hype in general. With a lock like this, your opponent is gonna have a huge hand - Copycat is ridiculously good.

im not gonna lie i did not even think about that but it is a BRILLIANT idea. im running a similar lock deck and that is truly ingenious. i cant wait to try it out!



@bullados_

i cant stress enough that your trainers are 99% of the time usless. i understand the need to get out your x's but premier balls and level maxes wont be of use. the reason being is that spiritomb is only temporary but vileplume will last and will be a huge pain to play around for both of you. i have a similar deck built with a slightly different idea but i like this too. i have a friend at league who is building a very similar deck. if you keep any trainers at all only have rare candies or a lux ball and thats it. those are for bad starts that can quickly be turned around but thats it. any more and youll be getting dead draw the rest of the game.

you said you had consistency problems and i believe a simple fix is to add call energy. so even if you get a bad start you can always go get tomb for turn 2. also id run 4 collector and many people will fight me over this but consistency matters and this will help immensely. the next problem you may have is vileplume being pulled into the active position. this would cause pretty major problems for you even with unown q. i recommend warp energy. i run 3 becuase luring flame i believe will become more popular as vileplume does. youre last problem is dialga g x. if they get one out you have absolutley no counter. youre entire strategy crumbles. this is the reason i chose gengar SF instead of glaceon x. although i do like your glaceon build youll probably need to find a dialga g x counter if you wish to stay competitive.

one last thing... i noticed you are using grass energy. i honestly couldnt even bother trying to fight with vileplume. i would replace with warp in order to keep it on the bench where it belongs. i love the idea and i hope this helps!

[Barkjon]

Take out the Level Maxes for two Prof Elm's and two E-Belts. I'd add Luxury Ball in here, but it is trainer lock :P

[sar86]

-4 premier
-4 level max
+1 Eevee
+1 Flareon RR
+1 Espeon MD
+1 Umbreon MD
+2 Pokemon Collector
+2 Copycat

-2 Grass
-2 Water
+2 Fire
+2 Warp

[Rogue Archetype]

I think almost everyone has enteratined the thought of Glaceon/Vileplume.

However, the question remains:

As with EVERY Glaceon deck ...

What... will... provide ... the KNOCK OUTS??

Glaceon is such a TERRIBAD attacker (even with EBelt), that you end up with an well-hashed out tier3 deck option.

At any rate...

I would take out every premier ball and replace with 1 more Unown Q and 3 Warp Energy. :)

That will enable you to kick things back to the bench and play down your own Trainers T1 & T2.

You'll need to be able to setup what you want before locking YOURSELF out of trainer use for the rest of the game.

I would, also, entertain the thought of having a Regice in there to remove your dead trainers out of hand AND kick back THEIR spiritombs.

[Vegeta ss4]

I actually have built a solid lock build with 2 varient strong attackers. I really don't feel the need to post a list because if I do come back into the game, it will be played by me. 2 varient of strong attackewrs all share the same attack, Poltergeist.
Mismagius and Gengar.

Another beautiful combo that I am looking at is Drifblim. That creates massive control, if you can make a proper trainer line it will easily take many tournaments. But it can easily be played around, but people will "nuke" the logics when facing it.

Just my 2 cents, I havent played pokemon in a while, so I most likely do not have a clue at what I am talking about.