Giratina (Let Loose) in Sablelock

[jonstoppable]

I've been debating with my friends whether or not Giratina is worth the space in Sablelock.

Pros:

• Playable first turn: opening with Sableye, Giratina is godly
  
• Keeps your Supporter slot open (instead of Judging)
  
• Reusable through SSU
  
• Easy to search out
  

Cons:

• Terrible opening active
  
• Sprayable
  
• Easy Bright look, Luring Flame target.
  
• Requires SSU, an unreliable card to be played, which is about 3-4 spots in a tight deck.

I'm relatively new to the game, so I would appreciate the added input.

[Blitzer]

I would say, do not play it. The risk is to high for it to be brought up in this format.

[ashinto]

I think Sablelock should play 1 of these and only one. It is a situational card that shouldn't see the light of day in certain matchups though it'll be good in others.

[Darkmot]

Against non SP decks it is absolutely creat and against Sps it is situational....
It HAS TO BE played once in every Sablelock, because it increases the speed of the lock, because with it you are able to get the lock with a single Pokemon Collector....

You shouldn't even discuss this, because this card is standart in Sablelock.
Darkmot.

[Kayle]

It is pretty standard, but it also really sucks to start with and to have it Bright Looked. Good weaknesses to be aware of, but not enough to outweigh its usability.

I wouldn't use it against SP anyway, and I would also probably run Warp Energy just becuase it's awesome.

[Deoxys Cool Form]

I'd play one and just not play it down against SP unless you really have to.

[Meesie6x6]

it's so bad, why would you play it, sp bright looks too make you a sad panda. i'd much rather play a weavile tech.

[Deoxys Cool Form]

Originally Posted by meesie666666

it's so bad, why would you play it, sp bright looks too make you a sad panda. i'd much rather play a weavile tech.

Don't use it against Luxray.

[Sabett]

Originally Posted by meesie666666

it's so bad, why would you play it, sp bright looks too make you a sad panda. i'd much rather play a weavile tech.

How does that compare to Giratina?

[xcfrisco]

What sucks about giratina is that it often become way more than a 1 card tech. You'll HAVE to play some warp energies, warp points, or SSU's, to ensure your opponent can't just drag it up and stall you (ie get set-up) or snipe around it. It's not only SP that can drag it up, any deck can play pokemon reversal. It's such an awful start too in a deck that relies so much on having a truly fantastic start that i don't think it's worth the risk to play it unless you have some serious cahones.

Giratina into initiative is pretty baller though when it works. I also wouldn't exactly consider this card "standard" in sabelock.

[Victory Bell]

With all the Reversals, Luxrays, blazekins, and Powersprays allover the place lately, you would have to be crazy to drop it against any deck that COULD run any of those.

And consider any game you start with it a loss before the round even starts...

[Darkmot]

Not true, if you start with it you can still outplay your oppenent and stop him getting setup AND if he then doesn't have anything to snipe your bench he has to go for the first prize and kill Giratina.
AND remember, during the time you are hiding behind Giratina you can Set Up too and if you even can set up decent you should be able to still make the game.

Hope that everybody understands me.
Darkmot.

[Sabett]

Originally Posted by Victory Bell

With all the Reversals, Luxrays, blazekins, and Powersprays allover the place lately, you would have to be crazy to drop it against any deck that COULD run any of those.

And consider any game you start with it a loss before the round even starts...

Blazekin doesn't seem much play anymore, luxray was already mentioned to not be played against, and that sort of implies power spray, but w/e. And who cares about reversal? If we're scared about reversal, then our SSU's are working.

Also, why would that be a loss? Not to mention the very low amount of games that will start like that.

[the sidewalk]

Giratina sounds cool in theory, but I wouldn't run it. Sablelock is supposed to play fast and efficiently, thereby enabling you to stay one profound step ahead of your opponent. Allotting your opponent the opportunity to Luring Flame or Bright Look Giratina up and start Dragon Rushing your bench sounds like a recipe for an auto loss. In addition, choosing to run 1 Giratina would also force you to run at least two additional cards intended for letting you get him out of the active position... What if you don't draw into one? What would prevent you from getting Luring Flamed twice?

The only deck I can think of in which I'd run Giratina is Plox or something that has a secondary purpose for all of the necessary warp cards.

[Shino Bug Master]

Giritina is a great play in Sablelock. Of course it isn't perfect, but it acts as a third supporter a turn. You can Collector for the equivilant of a Judge and then Imporsonate Iniative, or C's Conspiracy for a Spray. That ability alone is so incredabley disruptive that it really does make Giritina a worthwhile play. As stated, you can't throw it around without considering the nature of the opponent's deck, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't play it. It isn't as if you don't have options when it is Bright Looked, DCE provides 2/3 of the retreat cost. If you are really worried abotu that, just throw an energy on Giritina after you play it down. Then you are a DCE away from retreating if it really is the difference between winning the game and losing it.

[Snazzle-]

Play one with either some warp points or warp energies.

It is a staple in Sablelock though, and it really does help the deck alot.

[baby mario]

Giratina is definitely not a staple in Sablelock.

If it was, then you would think the most successful Sablelock deck would run it - but it didn't.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this question. It can be very useful, it can also be a massive liability. I don't run it myself, but I have no big problem with lists that do.

[Sabett]

Originally Posted by baby mario

Giratina is definitely not a staple in Sablelock.

If it was, then you would think the most successful Sablelock deck would run it - but it didn't.

I don't think there is an easy answer to this question. It can be very useful, it can also be a massive liability. I don't run it myself, but I have no big problem with lists that do.

Does that make Promocroak or Call energy definetely not a staple in SP either then? I didn't see any in Yuta's list.

That said it should just be tested with, see how much of an issue it is to work with, push comes to shove don't run it or put some warp energy in there.

[nnaann]

Originally Posted by Sabett

Does that make Promocroak or Call energy definetely not a staple in SP either then? I didn't see any in Yuta's list.

That said it should just be tested with, see how much of an issue it is to work with, push comes to shove don't run it or put some warp energy in there.

Imo, Yuta going 12-0 and winning worlds does mean that Promocroak and Call Energy aren't essential in Luxchomp - doesn't stop them being good cards in the deck though. However it's not a brilliant comparsion because alot of good Sabelock lists don't run Giratina and most top tier Luxchomp decks do run Croak/Call Energy.

[baby mario]

Originally Posted by Sabett

Does that make Promocroak or Call energy definetely not a staple in SP either then? I didn't see any in Yuta's list.

Obviously not.

A staple is a no-debate inclusion in every good list.

Cyrus is a staple in Luxchomp
PokeTurn is a staple in Luxchomp

Promocroak and Call can no longer fit that definition (if they ever did). Call them near-staple if you want.

I'm sure I've left you some room for tedious quibbling there, so knock yourself out.

[Barkjon]

I'd go for 1 Let Loose Giratina - to decrease the chances of starting with it. You might as well just run more Judges to stop from being Power-Sprayed or Bright-Looked.

[Shino Bug Master]

On the promocroak/call note, call has never been a staple, it's simply found in the uppercrust of LuxChomp. Havign so little room for Warp/other basic energy, its rather obvious to see there isn't really anything else that could be cut for it.

I do believe however, that Toxicroak G Promo is a staple, for the simply fact that it is the decks only out against T-Tar, and the greatest out in mirrior against Luxray, along with a slew of other match-ups where it shines, and its Poke-Power is brilliant. The only excuse for not running it is just not having access to it, which is understandable. Lists may be forced to make do without it, but those that have access really can't complain about how much difference the 2 spaces (Toxi Promo and (P) energy) really make for the deck.

[DarthPika]

1. It REALLY sucks when you start with it.
2. Half the time it seems to backfire in your face, leaving you with nothing while your opponent draws an amazing hand, that you can't disrupt even with the Sableye.
3. It also REALLY sucks when your opponent manages to drag it to the active position.

[Meesie6x6]

Originally Posted by Shino Bug Master

On the promocroak/call note, call has never been a staple, it's simply found in the uppercrust of LuxChomp. Havign so little room for Warp/other basic energy, its rather obvious to see there isn't really anything else that could be cut for it.

I do believe however, that Toxicroak G Promo is a staple, for the simply fact that it is the decks only out against T-Tar, and the greatest out in mirrior against Luxray, along with a slew of other match-ups where it shines, and its Poke-Power is brilliant. The only excuse for not running it is just not having access to it, which is understandable. Lists may be forced to make do without it, but those that have access really can't complain about how much difference the 2 spaces (Toxi Promo and (P) energy) really make for the deck.

yeah, like the world champion [/sarcasm]

[Denjin Hadou]

I say no. Because it's in your deck, you run the risk of starting with it, which is never a great idea. Without Super Scoop-Up to retreat him, Luxray GLX can just bring him to the front and either 2-hit or have Garchomp snipe bench sitters. The temptation to reduce your opponent's hand by turn 2 or even their first turn maybe high, but anyone playing the deck long enough would probably agree that space would be better used for something else.