umbreon UD counter in gangplume???

rotomboyz · 09/19/2010, 05:55 AM

hey guys i just got killed by umbreons last battle road... is their a good counter that i should put in?

DonphanAtoZ · 09/19/2010, 07:34 AM

Play the matchup right, or, stick in 1-1-1 Machamp.

DragonClyne725 · 09/19/2010, 07:48 AM

Relicanth works wonders against Umbreon and is a good counter for SP as well.

Its definitly easier to fit in a Relicanth and 2 energys then 1-1-1 Champ and 2 energys

*Kayle* · 09/19/2010, 09:19 AM

How does Relicanth help you when the most they will have is a stadium (maybe)? (Because I would TOTALLY attach, you know, an Expert Belt to a Pokemon that is about to bite a Fainting Spell flip. If Vilegar is working right, there should be NO tools in play AT ALL.) STUPID STUPID DUMB

Play the matchup right. If you can't hurt Umbreon, hurt everything else. Compound Pain ftw.

I maintain that Relicanth should not be necessary in any case.

rotomboyz · 09/19/2010, 10:11 AM

[/QUOTE]Play the matchup right. If you can't hurt Umbreon, hurt everything else. Compound Pain ftw.

I maintain that Relicanth should not be necessary in any case.[/QUOTE]

the umbreon he was playing was doing 60+ a turn to gengar....
and compound pain is way to slow

flariados · 09/19/2010, 10:59 AM

Relicanth also has another attack Amnesia which does 60 damage to Umbreon and makes him forget his second attack.

Ninja · 09/19/2010, 06:27 PM

Ya I like his second attack.
It really works with you to make him not be able to use Moonlight fang.
YES!

*Kayle* · 09/19/2010, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotomboyz

the umbreon he was playing was doing 60+ a turn to gengar....
and compound pain is way to slow

Shouldn't you have 2 energy attached to Gengar anyway? Drop a Bat or something and Shadow Room in the same turn... iunno. Leveled Up, they take 3 turns to kill you anyway.

Besides, they have to bite Fainting Spell anyway, given the history of this deck that shouldn't be such a bad thing.

If you are really concerned then Relicanth would be the play, but I wish you luck getting out that tech energy...

Alex(charm)ander · 09/19/2010, 11:50 PM

You don't need to tech for Umbreon. Snipe around it and Compound Pain. If a Gengar or two gets KO'd Umbreon will fall to Fainting Spell.

fuzzywuzzy229 · 09/20/2010, 04:34 AM

I run Vilegar and I was scared of this too. However, my friend actually ran a 4-4 line of Umbreon for me (how sweet -_-). But anyway, if you think out the course of turns, YOU actually get the advantage. So you have Gengar and he has Umbreon. More likely than not, there would be at least 2 Pokemon on his bench that can be 2 shotted. You take 2 turns to kill of 1 of them so you are up 1 prize and then they'll kill your Gengar so now you're even in prizes. If you manage to flip a heads for Fainting Spell, you are in the lead. If you flip tails, you guys are still even and you should've had a Gengar being setup as well.

So in the end, it really comes down to flips. Good luck :)

*Kayle* · 09/20/2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayle

I'd be more worried about people trying to be clever and sticking 1-1 Umbreon into something like Sableye...

...because then they can stop you from getting more than a Gengar and a Plume. Happens on a regular basis for me in testing. Normally you wouldn't mind since you OHKO everything they have, but when they bring up Umbreon...

rotomboyz · 09/20/2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayle

Shouldn't you have 2 energy attached to Gengar anyway? Drop a Bat or something and Shadow Room in the same turn... iunno. Leveled Up, they take 3 turns to kill you anyway.

Besides, they have to bite Fainting Spell anyway, given the history of this deck that shouldn't be such a bad thing.

If you are really concerned then Relicanth would be the play, but I wish you luck getting out that tech energy...

i didnt apply the weakness to that damage and i run 2 cyrus sooo no problem getting the energy

*Kayle* · 09/20/2010, 03:01 PM

Running Cyrus doesn't help you that much. It doesn't show up all that often, and under trainer lock, how are you going to get the Relicanth? Barring lucky draws, it's gonna be playing one supporter, then supposedly Cyrus right after (or other way around but that's actually slower).

In the time it takes you to get out Relicanth they will have slain a Gengar already.

Mama_Luigi · 09/20/2010, 03:17 PM

Honestly, not many people are playing umbereon. There are none in my meta, and I doubt yours is full of them

rotomboyz · 09/20/2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayle

Running Cyrus doesn't help you that much. It doesn't show up all that often, and under trainer lock, how are you going to get the Relicanth? Barring lucky draws, it's gonna be playing one supporter, then supposedly Cyrus right after (or other way around but that's actually slower).

In the time it takes you to get out Relicanth they will have slain a Gengar already.

i dont run lux ball... and gengar can be a wall until i send out relicanth(2T)

---------- Post added 09/20/2010 at 08:29 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mama_Luigi

Honestly, not many people are playing umbereon. There are none in my meta, and I doubt yours is full of them

yeah but the person who has it usually has the same score as me...

*Kayle* · 09/20/2010, 07:07 PM

Whether or not you ran Luxury Ball wasn't the point, it's a matter of, how are you going to get Relicanth and the Energy reliably and quickly enough, PARTICULARLY with no trainers whatsoever, to counter Umbreon before Umbreon does enough damage to cost you the game?

rotomboyz · 09/21/2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayle

Whether or not you ran Luxury Ball wasn't the point, it's a matter of, how are you going to get Relicanth and the Energy reliably and quickly enough, PARTICULARLY with no trainers whatsoever, to counter Umbreon before Umbreon does enough damage to cost you the game?

i can get bebes with fighting energies via cyrus!!!
next turn: relicanth benched and gengar active using shadow room...

*Kayle* · 09/21/2010, 04:23 PM

And, opponent's next turn, Gengar fainted and Umbreon possibly killed by Fainting Spell. You just wasted two supporters getting a Relicanth you now have no use for! Congrats!

rotomboyz · 09/21/2010, 04:36 PM

but by that time i would have another gengar on the bench or a relicanth and the guy i was facing already had another umbreon on the bench...
soooo he either sends up a umbreon that can kill gengar but is countered by relicanth or another pokemon that is killed by gengar!!!

besides some times you have to sacrifice a pokemon to KO another.

*Kayle* · 09/21/2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kayle

I'd be more worried about people trying to be clever and sticking 1-1 Umbreon into something like Sableye...

Seriously, the number of games in which I have limited my opponent to 1 Gengar and 1 Plume (or worse) is well over half of the games I have tested with, and 1-1 Umbreon killing that single Gengar is all it would take to secure the win.

**baby mario** · 09/21/2010, 04:41 PM

If Umbreon was popular in my area, I wouldn't play the only deck that has major problems with it.

Just saying.

09/19/2010, 09:19 AM	#4
Kayle Images: 2	How does Relicanth help you when the most they will have is a stadium (maybe)? (Because I would TOTALLY attach, you know, an Expert Belt to a Pokemon that is about to bite a Fainting Spell flip. If Vilegar is working right, there should be NO tools in play AT ALL.) STUPID STUPID DUMB Play the matchup right. If you can't hurt Umbreon, hurt everything else. Compound Pain ftw. I maintain that Relicanth should not be necessary in any case. __________________ Team B-Side \|\| cardmaker, competitive tcg player, competitive vg player. \|\| \|\| programmer, game designer; fantasy writer, amateur artist. \|\| .....the figter of shadows..... Last edited by Kayle; 09/19/2010 at 09:25 AM.

09/20/2010, 03:01 PM	#13
Kayle Images: 2	Running Cyrus doesn't help you that much. It doesn't show up all that often, and under trainer lock, how are you going to get the Relicanth? Barring lucky draws, it's gonna be playing one supporter, then supposedly Cyrus right after (or other way around but that's actually slower). In the time it takes you to get out Relicanth they will have slain a Gengar already. __________________ Team B-Side \|\| cardmaker, competitive tcg player, competitive vg player. \|\| \|\| programmer, game designer; fantasy writer, amateur artist. \|\| .....the figter of shadows.....

09/20/2010, 07:07 PM	#16
Kayle Images: 2	Whether or not you ran Luxury Ball wasn't the point, it's a matter of, how are you going to get Relicanth and the Energy reliably and quickly enough, PARTICULARLY with no trainers whatsoever, to counter Umbreon before Umbreon does enough damage to cost you the game? __________________ Team B-Side \|\| cardmaker, competitive tcg player, competitive vg player. \|\| \|\| programmer, game designer; fantasy writer, amateur artist. \|\| .....the figter of shadows.....

09/21/2010, 04:23 PM	#18
Kayle Images: 2	And, opponent's next turn, Gengar fainted and Umbreon possibly killed by Fainting Spell. You just wasted two supporters getting a Relicanth you now have no use for! Congrats! __________________ Team B-Side \|\| cardmaker, competitive tcg player, competitive vg player. \|\| \|\| programmer, game designer; fantasy writer, amateur artist. \|\| .....the figter of shadows.....

09/21/2010, 04:41 PM	#21
baby mario Front Page Article Editor 2010 Theme Deck Champion	If Umbreon was popular in my area, I wouldn't play the only deck that has major problems with it. Just saying. __________________ Read my article on Blastoise/Keldeo pleaseUK National Seniors Champion '10 \|\| Worlds Competitor '08, 09, '10, '11 Worlds 2012 Top 32 Masters Division YOU/USEDTO_B E A_LRIGHT_AT/POKE_MON WHAT /HA_PPENED

09/19/2010, 05:55 AM	#1
rotomboyz	umbreon UD counter in gangplume??? hey guys i just got killed by umbreons last battle road... is their a good counter that i should put in?

09/19/2010, 07:34 AM	#2
DonphanAtoZ	Play the matchup right, or, stick in 1-1-1 Machamp. __________________

09/19/2010, 10:11 AM	#5
rotomboyz	[/QUOTE]Play the matchup right. If you can't hurt Umbreon, hurt everything else. Compound Pain ftw. I maintain that Relicanth should not be necessary in any case.[/QUOTE] the umbreon he was playing was doing 60+ a turn to gengar.... and compound pain is way to slow

09/19/2010, 10:59 AM	#6
flariados	Relicanth also has another attack Amnesia which does 60 damage to Umbreon and makes him forget his second attack.

09/19/2010, 06:27 PM	#7
Ninja	Ya I like his second attack. It really works with you to make him not be able to use Moonlight fang. YES! __________________ Team Shuriken Cade K. Texas. Master. Gonna make it big someday.

09/20/2010, 04:34 AM	#10
fuzzywuzzy229	I run Vilegar and I was scared of this too. However, my friend actually ran a 4-4 line of Umbreon for me (how sweet -_-). But anyway, if you think out the course of turns, YOU actually get the advantage. So you have Gengar and he has Umbreon. More likely than not, there would be at least 2 Pokemon on his bench that can be 2 shotted. You take 2 turns to kill of 1 of them so you are up 1 prize and then they'll kill your Gengar so now you're even in prizes. If you manage to flip a heads for Fainting Spell, you are in the lead. If you flip tails, you guys are still even and you should've had a Gengar being setup as well. So in the end, it really comes down to flips. Good luck :)

09/21/2010, 04:36 PM	#19
rotomboyz	but by that time i would have another gengar on the bench or a relicanth and the guy i was facing already had another umbreon on the bench... soooo he either sends up a umbreon that can kill gengar but is countered by relicanth or another pokemon that is killed by gengar!!! besides some times you have to sacrifice a pokemon to KO another.

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