Most Broken Card released in the last 2 years

[jokerjake7]

look Power Spray is a new kind of card to pokemon one that only sp can use and also has alot of very fast and efficient tools like poke turn and cyrus so in combination it is overpowered in my opinion idc if t-tar or machamp was or will be ever bdif rare candy will never be broken cause evolutions will always be slower than sp and if there was no sp then everyone will just use rare candy. all of the sp engine stuff are things only they can use thats wat makes them broken

[Victory Bell]

I actually meant Prime although I said 1-1. It is clearly a better tech in any sp after all.

I don't think sp will loose any playability with Gengar's advent. It will just adapt, like it always has. Sp stays BDIF.

[Kayle]

Originally Posted by jokerjake7

look Power Spray is a new kind of card to pokemon one that only sp can use and also has alot of very fast and efficient tools like poke turn and cyrus so in combination it is overpowered in my opinion idc if t-tar or machamp was or will be ever bdif rare candy will never be broken cause evolutions will always be slower than sp and if there was no sp then everyone will just use rare candy. all of the sp engine stuff are things only they can use thats wat makes them broken

/looks at your signature

You just dislike Power Spray because you play a deck that can't function with Sprays in play. Me, I love Power Spray. And I love SP mirror.

Evolutions are not always slower than SP. Case in point: Jumpluff pre-rotation.

Why would limiting the SP engine cards to only SP Pokemon make them MORE broken? Can you imagine if Cyrus just allowed you a Trainer, a Supporter and an Energy?

[ShadowGuard]

Originally Posted by baby mario

I don't care what cards are in the BDIF. I don't care what cards are in the format. I'll work with whatever is legal and I'll play whatever wins.

If every player would think like you, the game was dead. Nobody wants to play a TCG with all the same deck. And what I know from my experience at Nationals is that since I started playing, almost all the top placements have been made by players who choose a deck because they're comfortable with it, not because it's the best.

Originally Posted by Kayle

Why would limiting the SP engine cards to only SP Pokemon make them MORE broken? Can you imagine if Cyrus just allowed you a Trainer, a Supporter and an Energy?

Castaway gave you a Tool, a Supporter and an Energy. Since Roseanne rotated out, I'm really starting to miss that card. =/

[RogueDecker]

Castaway would be great now since you could grab E-belt, a supporter, and a needed energy for the speed evo decks..

[baby mario]

Originally Posted by ShadowGuard

If every player would think like you, the game was dead. Nobody wants to play a TCG with all the same deck.

Other people are free to play what they want, and so am I.

And what I know from my experience at Nationals is that since I started playing, almost all the top placements have been made by players who choose a deck because they're comfortable with it, not because it's the best.

Obviously I play the deck I think I can win with. If I wasn't 'comfortable' with it, I wouldn't feel that way would I? Or is there something wrong with that as well?

[RogueDecker]

I play BDIF and my username is RogueDecker.
I always play rogue unless there isn't one i feel comfortable with.

In order to do good you must use a deck that you are comfortable with, and im quite sure mario knows this.
People think a newcomer could pick up Luxchomp and top-cut which is far from true.

Baby Mario plays BDIF because it's the best deck and he has the resources to obtain the cards.
Many people dont play the BDIF because the prices are usually crazy.
If somebody didnt feel comfortable with Luxchomp they wouldn't play it, unless they have no understanding of how Pokemon TCG should be.

You play what your comfortable with, and playtest decks you are thinking about running.

[Yoshi-]

The thing is tha, at least for me, playing the bdif in format and having fun dont go well together, I want to play long games and not prevent a game from happening. And yeah, @ BM, Ive read the article but what we have now is more like the situation with the one totally broken street fighter character. And honestly, I understand a BDIF will always keep certain decks from being good but when a deck has the ability to just render 90% of cards printed useless it gets too much.

Card has a body? Lightning Weakness? Colorless Weakness? Just a +30 Weakness so it could survive? Needs a power? Needs a setup? A certain Energy? Yeah...

Am I a scrub because IMO the game was way more fun without sp? Weve always had BDIFs but theres a strong deck and a deck thats too strong. And do you really still enjoy playing against Luxrays all day?

And save yourself the "theres just another deck youll whine about" speech because it never worked and never will, I can adapt to strong decks and play accordingly but SP just has a counter to everything because it has too many rule breaking cards, without it there wouldnt jus be another meta deck because decks that play by the same rules can counter each other and we'd see a ton of decks that were rendeed unplayable by a single card in sp. Just think about all the good cards that have a body and will never see any play. Im pretty sure that I could build a good working counter to every deck that would be bdif if SP was gone.

And when Im talking to hardcore sp players like volt and even he goes "Ill just get rid of all cards except sp, its not like Id need anythink else" and "why bother building other decks when SP has an answer anyway or can easily tech one", idk. I just feel like deckbuilding is dead, and not just just "bad rogues".

[Jariel]

about the most broken card im gonna go with DCE it made unplayable pokemon such as Garchomp C Lvl X playable

honestly im tired of seeing the same thing over and over again just like when donks where more common (Machamp & rampardos)

i hope that there are more decks that can be popular hahah deck diversity and set-up (longer games how i miss rock lock, ludicardgo etc hhehehe)

[rotomboyz]

Originally Posted by baby mario

Have they?

I know a lot of players on here think it should be banned, but that's not the same thing.

Link please?

i cant seem to find a link but Dema said so...
i dont know if this is true... but i do know that many people want it banned

[Sabett]

Originally Posted by Jariel

about the most broken card im gonna go with DCE it made unplayable pokemon such as Garchomp C Lvl X playable

honestly im tired of seeing the same thing over and over again just like when donks where more common (Machamp & rampardos)

i hope that there are more decks that can be popular hahah deck diversity and set-up (longer games how i miss rock lock, ludicardgo etc hhehehe)

Garchomp c lv.x was never unplayable, DCE put him over the top.

[pkmn202]

you could always put a different stadium in play or use flygon RR
(i'm referring to people who are whining about gengar and lost world)

[LovingTheAlien]

I'll just say that if your SP deck has trouble with Vileplume/Gengar then you have a bad list.

Also, Pfft Gengar Prime, what about Machamp Prime?

[The_Envoy_of_Chaos]

Not once in this thread has been mentioned the full combo.

Gengar Prime + Lost World is only HALF the equation. Yeah sure, it's a very good combo. What makes that combo make that next step into broken is Hunter and Twins. Hunter sends all those Pokemon that your desperately benching to counter Gengar straight back to your hand. Twins is fantastic as Gengar doesn't have to focus on prizes to win the game. It doesn't matter if it's 6-3 in their favour.

It is broken, but they'll be a counter/deck/something that will beat it or at least hinder it. It doesn't need to be banned. It's nowhere near as bad as Sneasal or Slowking were in their own day.

[LovingTheAlien]

Originally Posted by jokerjake7

look Power Spray is a new kind of card to pokemon one that only sp can use and also has alot of very fast and efficient tools like poke turn and cyrus so in combination it is overpowered in my opinion idc if t-tar or machamp was or will be ever bdif rare candy will never be broken cause evolutions will always be slower than sp and if there was no sp then everyone will just use rare candy. all of the sp engine stuff are things only they can use thats wat makes them broken

I don't know if you've ever played Kingdra or not, but [plenty of] evolution decks most certainly are NOT slower than SP. SP is just the modern day haymaker, with an exceptional and exclusive engine, healing, and supreme tech room, which really swings the game in SPs favor. Luxray GL Lv.X's 60 for 1 + energy gain on t2 at the earliest isn't faster than a Kingdra's t1 80+spray splash, or 80+20 to the bench with the other kingdra or a machamp's t1 take out. It's the type advantage and control. Sure, Dragon Rush and healing breath are fantastic, but do they do anything to Steelix Prime?

The #1 thing that makes SP decks broken is their versatility. "Toolbox" wasn't just tossed around because SP decks are a bunch of junk tossed together. Machamp big in your area? Just play blaziken. Vilegar? Tech in Sableye. SPs? Tech Dragonite. Sableye-based decks? Roserade. Kingdra/Machamp? Tech in Lucario GL and Luxray or Toxitank.

Also, people need to let up on the SP hate. I think SP decks are some of the most fun. I LOVE Sablelock, BlazeChomp, and DialgaChomp. They all have totally unique strategies and are super fun and challenging to play. I also loved AMU+Gardevoir/Gallade, Gyarados, Steelix, Regigigas, Gliscor/Spiritomb, Curse Gengar, Magnezone, Kingdra, Mothim/Gyarados, Ho-Oh+Togekiss, Magmortar+Leafeon, Empoleon, Blissey and PLOX. They all had unique strategies and were very fun to play.

If you want to hate on anything, try hating on garbage like GeChamp, Flygon(uggggghhhhhhhhh) and vileplume/gengar. Those decks are entirely soulless and are actually not very good despite popular belief.

---------- Post added 09/21/2010 at 04:26 AM ----------

Originally Posted by The_Envoy_of_Chaos

Not once in this thread has been mentioned the full combo.

Gengar Prime + Lost World is only HALF the equation. Yeah sure, it's a very good combo. What makes that combo make that next step into broken is Hunter and Twins. Hunter sends all those Pokemon that your desperately benching to counter Gengar straight back to your hand. Twins is fantastic as Gengar doesn't have to focus on prizes to win the game. It doesn't matter if it's 6-3 in their favour.

It is broken, but they'll be a counter/deck/something that will beat it or at least hinder it. It doesn't need to be banned. It's nowhere near as bad as Sneasal or Slowking were in their own day.

Don't forget about the Lv.X, Mr.Mime, Spiritomb, and Looker's, either. They are all absolutely ridiculous when combined with Gengar.

I think I'm just tired of having to tech against some gengar or another. :/

[baby mario]

Originally Posted by Yoshi-

The thing is tha, at least for me, playing the bdif in format and having fun dont go well together, I want to play long games and not prevent a game from happening. And yeah, @ BM, Ive read the article but what we have now is more like the situation with the one totally broken street fighter character. And honestly, I understand a BDIF will always keep certain decks from being good but when a deck has the ability to just render 90% of cards printed useless it gets too much.

Card has a body? Lightning Weakness? Colorless Weakness? Just a +30 Weakness so it could survive? Needs a power? Needs a setup? A certain Energy? Yeah...

Am I a scrub because IMO the game was way more fun without sp? Weve always had BDIFs but theres a strong deck and a deck thats too strong. And do you really still enjoy playing against Luxrays all day?

The whole 'scrub' thing in the article was about players who restrict themselves with their own 'rules' and code of 'honour'. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking anything. I might even agree with you about the game being more fun without SP, or I might not - it's not important. The way I see it is that SP is there to be used and it would be nuts of me not to use it just because I somehow decided for myself that it was 'wrong'.

And save yourself the "theres just another deck youll whine about" speech because it never worked and never will, I can adapt to strong decks and play accordingly but SP just has a counter to everything because it has too many rule breaking cards, without it there wouldnt jus be another meta deck because decks that play by the same rules can counter each other and we'd see a ton of decks that were rendeed unplayable by a single card in sp. Just think about all the good cards that have a body and will never see any play. Im pretty sure that I could build a good working counter to every deck that would be bdif if SP was gone.

And when Im talking to hardcore sp players like volt and even he goes "Ill just get rid of all cards except sp, its not like Id need anythink else" and "why bother building other decks when SP has an answer anyway or can easily tech one", idk. I just feel like deckbuilding is dead, and not just just "bad rogues".

The thing is, I don't see this one monster SP deck any more than I see all Stage 2 decks as being the same. There have been many successful SP decks that are played in very different ways (eg: Luxchomp, Dialga, Palkia Lock). Yeah, they all use Cyrus/TGIs, just like Stage 2 decks all use(d) Candy/BTS/Bebe/Claydol etc.

Your choice of SP deck and the way it is teched out are all important and all take deckbuilding skill. How can deckbuilding be 'dead' because of SP when the most original and innovative new deck last season was Sablelock? A deck which brought back a dead strategy (hand disruption), using a card most people dismissed as rubbish (Cyrus Initiative).

[waynegg]

Originally Posted by The_Envoy_of_Chaos

Gengar Prime + Lost World is only HALF the equation. Yeah sure, it's a very good combo. What makes that combo make that next step into broken is Hunter and Twins. Hunter sends all those Pokemon that your desperately benching to counter Gengar straight back to your hand. Twins is fantastic as Gengar doesn't have to focus on prizes to win the game. It doesn't matter if it's 6-3 in their favour.

And Palkia G LV X so benched Pokemon aren't safe from the Lost Zone, and Omastar so you use their evolutions aren't safe from the Lost Zone, and Hochkrow SV so discarded basics also aren't safe from the Lost Zone. As long as the Gengar player focuses on JUST sending Pokemon to the Lost Zone using the first attack instead of KOing Pokemon it's quick, and like the Crane Technique from The Karate Kid, if done correctly you no can defend!

Yeah... It's broken!

[Kayle]

Originally Posted by Jariel

about the most broken card im gonna go with DCE it made unplayable pokemon such as Garchomp C Lvl X playable

...what?

This is like, the stupidest level I have EVER heard

[Victory Bell]

Originally Posted by RogueDecker

Baby Mario plays BDIF because it's the best deck and he has the resources to obtain the cards.
Many people dont play the BDIF because the prices are usually crazy.
If somebody didnt feel comfortable with Luxchomp they wouldn't play it, unless they have no understanding of how Pokemon TCG should be..

Noobs pick Lux/blaze/sable-chomp up because they want to be pro with the BDIF. I was the same way like five years ago with my net decked Flaridos. At worlds this year I ran Blazeluxchomp. I was uncomfortable with it and failed. I was far better with Sablelock and Gardivior, but in hindsight, I realize I don't regret my choice. I would have only failed harder with the latter two. And I think I have a pretty good idea of how Pokemon TCG should be.

I don't play sp anymore, although it is bdif, but not to be rogue. I do not play it because I am not comfortable playing mirror against better players. But that is just what I do. Everyone plays what they want for their own reasons.

[Jariel]

Originally Posted by Kayle

...what?

This is like, the stupidest level I have EVER heard

Garchomp wasnt that big before DCE try removing DCE from the deck and see how it makes it harder for Garchomp to work

DCE really helped shine a light on those cards you wouldnt normally consider due to high attack cost especially for colorless

[Sabett]

Originally Posted by Jariel

Garchomp wasnt that big before DCE try removing DCE from the deck and see how it makes it harder for Garchomp to work

DCE really helped shine a light on those cards you wouldnt normally consider due to high attack cost especially for colorless

It may have not been big, but it was by no means unplayable.

[LovingTheAlien]

Yeah, Garchomp was the other half of the positively broken pre-DCE cities deck, Dialgachomp. NOTHING beat it. Not Charizard, not Flygon, nothing.

[waynegg]

Originally Posted by LovingTheAlien

Yeah, Garchomp was the other half of the positively broken pre-DCE cities deck, Dialgachomp. NOTHING beat it. Not Charizard, not Flygon, nothing.

Octillery beat it quite handily and a majority of the time. So did K-Lock, LEGOS, and almost anything with Dusknoir DP. It was still a great deck, but nowhere near as strong as it became with the release of Double Colorless Energy.

[jokerjake7]

Ok in my defense and personal opinion, just think of the core idea of SP. Stage 1 and 2 Pokemon as basics. Ok so only ONE pokemon takes advantage of that, and that is Machamp sf. But otherwise its a broken idea, They have all the search and basic benefits. That were usually only for STARTING to get set up in evolution. Also they all have high hp so donking practically never happens while evolutions have to deal with it. So with high speed cause everything is basic and also high def cause of high hp and lack of donking. Thats the very nature of being broken.

[Kayle]

Originally Posted by Jariel

Garchomp wasnt that big before DCE try removing DCE from the deck and see how it makes it harder for Garchomp to work

I played it before DCE came out. In fact, I played it before DCE was announced.

It was SCARY GOOD. DCE made it better in time for its first serious non-SP competition, Jumpluff.

Note that I say non-SP competition. What scared Luxchomp? Dialgachomp