Play Pokemon VG format ideas

[Benzo]

KK- so now that the VG is being incorporated at Play Pokemon events as side events, what can be said about what kind of structure and rules should be used?

There is a lot to take into consideration on this matter. Players want less restrictions, while the event staff want to have a format that is easiest to run with minimal issues and is current with VGC structure/format.

Let's look at this for a minute. At the VGC, the level of competition is high. And the restrictions are in place to keep the "battlefield" the most fair as possable for all levels of players. This format is set up by Nintendo, and it works for this high level of competition. TCPI has recognized what the VG can bring to Play Pokemon events and has begun to support those who play, no matter the players skill level as well.

On the Play Pokemon side, the level of competition is not so high as the atmosphere is not focused solely on the VG. It is a more relaxed environment that is seporate from what Nintendo has in regards to what structure will accomidate the players in this area.

To put the VG scene into a more orginized and structured manner at Play Pokemon events, we need to see what can be done to make players more interested in participating. But how can this be accomplished, while leaving the Nintendo events the "main" structure for the higher level of competition?

First- lets leave the Nintendo format up to the "professionals" at Nintendo, as they do an awesome job at providing some of the best VG events offered in the competition area.

As for Play Pokemon, we have room to format the VG scene to change things up a bit and to make players more interested and want to aprticipate more often.

Let's now look at what a format is. It is a set of rules, restrictions, and requirements that the players must adbide by in order to participate. It is the main structure that keeps the VG event running smooth and fair.

The format is broken down to look somewhat like this:
Requiements are what game cartridge(s) are to be used for the tournament.
Rules: How many Pokemon are to be used for the battle, what level the Pokemon must be at, and how many battles each player must complete. This also includes whether the tournament is swiss or single battle elimination. Also, whether the battle is double or single battle style.
Restrictions: What Pokemon are banned, moves that can not be used, hold items that can not be used, Cheat device/hack warnings, and anything that will keep the tournament unbalenced in skill level for all participating players.

A good format is always best if it is designed to keep the players happy by letting them enjoy the tournament, and must be structured to keep the interest still there.

So, what kind of format should be used at Play Pokemon events?

This is a bit tricky to format, since it requires some rules that are not too restrictive or keeps the tournament unbalanced.
Banning to many moves, hold items, Pokemon that can be used, and having a requirement that all who want to participate do not have will detour alot of players.

Here is an ideal format that might work well in the Play Pokemon environment.

Avoiding swiss rounds at events will keep the players at a happy medium. I say this because too many rounds stretch out the tournamnet too long timewise. If the players are in the TCG event, they feel rushed and sometimes do not even "report in" for the next round of the DS tournament. Single round elimination is shorter timewise, and it is complicated to have a person who went 30+3 to have time to even battle in the DS as TCG pairings go up faster then it takes the time to get in a battle.
Also, having a DS round at lunch time seems to be the time when most of those who signed up to skip out as lunch time is short enough as it is.

Having what game cartridges restricted to only two game cartidges keeps alot of players away and from signing up. Most of the current cartridges are compatible in one way or another. Some features with in the cartridges make the battles easier to set up, like auto level down/up. But, if we format the level to be set for one solid year/season and stick to it regardless of what new games come out, we will have more players signing up. Agian, a happy medium that players can count on for one year and be prepaired for.

The banned list: what is fair and what is not?

A balanced banned list can make or break a good tournament. In my experience, the #1 player complaint is that their "favorite" Pokemon is banned.

I think that if the Pokemon banned list should be structured, it should be in this manner:

ONLY 1 Pokemon can be used from this list: Mew, Jirachi, Celebi, Manaphy, Phione, Arceus, Darkria, Shayman, and Deoxys.

ONLY 1 Pokemon can be used from this list: Groudon, Lugia, Rayquazza, Kyogre, Latios, Latias, Mewtwo, HO-OH, Giratina, Dialga, and Palkia.

ONLY 1 Pokemon can be used from this list: Heatran, Cressalia, Raiku, Entie, Suicune, Regigias, Regice, Rgirock, Registeel, Moltres, Zapdos, Articuno, Azelf, Mesprit, and Uxie.

Since all Pokemon have been released by Nintendo by method of Wi-Fi events or at a venue, the person running the tournament can check for Pokemon's legitimacy to be used in the tournment.

Setting the required battle level at 100 should be the flat requirment. I suggest this because the Pokemon level being 100 makes it easier to keep the cartrige options more availlable to those who do not have the "newest" game yet.

Banning hold items should be kept to a minimum, such as Soul Dew. Most hold items that give a specific Pokemon a greater advantage should be banned. Light ball should not be held by Pikachu, and the two orbs held by Palkia/Dialga should be banned. Rayquazza has an orb that can be held, it too should be banned. These hold items should only be banned if they are held by the Pokemon that Benefits that peticular Pokemon.

A simple hold item ban list should be: Soul Dew, leftovers on Wobbafett, Pikachu holding a light ball, Dialga/Palkia holding their orbs,and Rayquazza holding his orb.

Moves should not be banned but restricted in it's use if it creates a clause that locks your opponent down too much, like Dark void. It can cause the battle to be long and drawn out.

A simple clause for moves should be: Dark void can not be used when your opponant has two Pokemon on the field. Explosion can not be used whe you and your opponant have one only 1 remianing Pokemon on the field and in your party.

I suggest double battle stye format. The battles run quicker, and the competition level is a bit more balenced out. It also makes for the battles to be more fun, and combos to be used more effectivly.

Requiring that palyers have a minimum of 4 Pokies in their party is best. Allowing a player to register 6 Pokies in their party is a good option, using 4 and having the option to switch up if they continue to advance in the tournament is a great way to keep the player at a happy medium.

So- in all- this is my suggested tournament format for Play Pokemon events in the VG department.

Thoughts? Suggestions? ideas? Comments?

[vaporeon]

I agree. The one thing they should do away with is the double battles as thats the most unfair format. I dropped out of one of the tournaments here because of someone spamming Dark Void.

The game has too much going on for there not to be some kind of restrictions. With the release of the dreamworld Pokemon, Pokemon like Kyogre won't be needed becauses there are other Pokemon around to set off the rain. They should just ban all the hard core lengendary pokemon as well as pokemon specific item. Have you see and Clampearl with deepseatooth or scale in the raid with trick room up.

[Pikamaster]

Originally Posted by vaporeon

I agree. The one thing they should do away with is the double battles as thats the most unfair format. I dropped out of one of the tournaments here because of someone spamming Dark Void.

The game has too much going on for there not to be some kind of restrictions. With the release of the dreamworld Pokemon, Pokemon like Kyogre won't be needed becauses there are other Pokemon around to set off the rain. They should just ban all the hard core lengendary pokemon as well as pokemon specific item. Have you see and Clampearl with deepseatooth or scale in the raid with trick room up.

Actually, Vaporeon, this shouldn't be a problem. IIRC, and this might not be official yet, only Gen V Pokemon can be used this year.

[espeon1]

Yeah, but isn't that just for Nationals Pikamaster? If there are the VG side events at States before Black and White comes out, then what are we going to do?

[Prodigiosus]

Taking away Doubles is honestly a terrible idea, it makes the metagame a lot more fun and creative. Sure, you had people spamming Dark Void last year but how far did those people really get? Not far at all. I loved the metagame last year, and yes, it got kind of boring seeing Kyogre on every team, but what are you going to do? The teams that the World competitors were pretty fantastic and showed what the best had to offer.

[Pikamaster]

Originally Posted by espeon1

Yeah, but isn't that just for Nationals Pikamaster? If there are the VG side events at States before Black and White comes out, then what are we going to do?

I don't know, I only heard about Gen V Pokemon being legal, I don't know when it's for.

[RB Golbat]

Gen 5 Pokemon were only legal for the VGC Qualifiers in Japan. The rules have not been announced yet for out of Japan, but it is likely to be the same, since it has been each year in the past.

[Benzo]

Beings that B&W will not make it here until Spring next year, the tournaments held at Play Pokemon events needs some kind of structure.
What Nintendo has planned or what Nintendo plans to format for the VGC this up-comming year is exactly that: Nintendo.
Here on the Pokegym, DS tournies are hosted by members, and the member sets the tournament format/structure according to how they would like to host a tournament.
For TPCI- they have been using Nintendo's format for the DS side events.
There is nothing wrong with TCPI using Nintendo's tournament format. I think that outside of Nintendo held events, TCPI could be more flexable with a format that will bring in more DS players at the side event.
Yes, with B&W's release, people will want change and will want to include the new pokies in battles.
Over time, the format will change as to how the games all will interact, and more information and time has passed to adjust to all the new things B&W will bring into the VG scene, we have to wait.
Until then, a current format OUTSIDE of Nintendos structure/format- a "common ground" format could be worked out and placed into effect at TCPI events that is solid and can be counted on to keep consistany so players have a common expectation as to what is the current format to prepare for.

I am simply trying to find a happy medium format for the TCPI DS tournaments. Even if the format is a bit behind timewise to what Nintendo does- at least a solid format in place that follows the TCG seasons and yearly callender, we will see an increase of players at Play Pokemon events.
And with that increase, there will be an increase of intrest towords Nintendo events as well, because there is an increase amount of support in the community and in the player base (TCG/VG) as well.

[RB Golbat]

What is wrong with using either of the 2009 or 2010 VGC Rule sets?

[Benzo]

One of the biggest issues for using VGC rules is the requirment to have the "newest" game cartridges that are out.

Another issue is the need to restrict what Pokemon can be used to battle with.

If TCPI is to follow the requirments that Nintendo has for the VGC- and switches over to B&W cartridges only- then there will be alot of vg players not even entering the tournaments at all do to the lack of preporation. Look at how much time we have to even prepair for the VGC, what, just shy of two months after we get B&W to go to the first vgc playoff location?

Sure- a slow transition into adding B&W into the vg scene over some time at events is IMO going to be the best thing/option instead of just a sudden "OK- B&W is out, so now we all need to switch now" will hurt the player base as no one will even be able to have Pokies ready, let alone have any want to speed rush through the games.

The atmosphere at Nintendo evnts is more competative, while the players at PlayPO are more come and go casual gamers. Having a more casual format with more cartridges being allowed means more players signing up.

[Regis_Neo]

If this were to be a side event at TCG events (assuming this isn't applying to league), hate to say it but swiss would be the easiest way to set things up; from my general observation, not a whole lot of TCG players bother playing the vg, so size isn't really an issue until you get to something like states and such with big turnouts and more people possibly playing. So you could easily run a quick 16 person tournament or so at cities with swiss and about a 10 minute timer for rounds (doubles really doesn't take that long usually), with their tiebreaker rules, probably even finish within an hour. And yes, I do believe in imposing restrictions to sign ups if there are too many people, stuff happens, life isn't fair, etc etc; for example, I wouldn't recommend running anything larger than a 32 person swiss, as anything beyond that is asking for trouble with size and time. 32 is a nice number for a maximum of people, this assumes at a given state or so with 100ish people, slightly under 1/3 of the people there will have vgs and be interested in playing, and depending on the place might not even get that many I'd think. For regionals, suck it up and sign up early, or if you're kind hearted/running a 2 day regionals, bump it up to 64.

Age groups is a problem though; many of the younger kids I would guesstimate likely play the vg and bring them to TCG events as opposed to the older crowd. So as much complaining as there could be, I would advocate just meshing all the age groups together if you don't have enough for a minimum, but if you do somehow have 8 juniors and 8 seniors or some otherwise easily divisible number (according to vgc age groups), then go ahead and do a seperate swiss for each, otherwise if you're only getting like 6 people total playing, mesh them together. Have em draw cards to see who will play off for the top 4.

As for the Pokemon to be used, until next season starts I would say go with last year's VGC pool of Pokemon and rules applicable to them, as not everyone again is going to rush out to get B/W unless you plan on playing this year's VGC (with rules semi-confirmed by what Japan is using), and then at the start of next season move on to the b/w only rule.

Finally, if this is just meant for league, just simply have them go out and find/battle 3 opponents or so, then give a small door prize or something. I mean, league, who cares what you run really lol. You can go as complicated or as easy as you want here.

[Benzo]

^Agreed that league play is "open" to what ever works for the local players. League is primarily the "slackest" gruop of gamers, so making the league rules "open" is best.

I do agree that splitting the swiss vs SRE with the larger number of players signed up. ( See- I can see reasonable compramise, as I did not even consider this option)-
The larger the event and the larger the numbers of players signing up makes choosing swiss vs SRE is a happy medium when determining all the factors such as time, how many rounds, ect.....ect....

Age brackets being sepporated is also a good idea. Finding a happy medium for the age split will be a bit of a touchy issue- I would say splitting the age groups at 14 and under and 15+.........thoughts?

"meshing" the ages groups is good if there is a small number of signed up players. I can agree to that.