Mewtwo ex not as good as most poeple think

[baby mario]

Originally Posted by Otaku

So let me get this straight... Mewtwo EX really is healing the sick and raising the dead?

It's healing sick matches and raising lost games from the dead, if that's what you mean

[NoPoke]

Its also not responsible for the holocaust, the banking crisis Greek debt, my bad eyesight..... Adding the spurious not raising the dead destroyed any point you might have been trying to make.

[Otaku]

How so No Poke? I said people were overrating it to ridiculous degrees. People are practically deifying Mewtwo EX. Most then can't explain when they lose a game despite having it (unless it was against another Mewtwo EX), but the problem remains: Mewtwo EX is a great card, but it doesn't win the game single-handed.

I allow that an overeager novice player can make that mistake, and even a few over-hyped vet, but it's the degree to which I am seeing that raises concern.

As for destroying my point, NoPoke, I carefully laid out my points in detail. If one use of humorous hyperbole is enough to disqualify my opinion to you, I suspect that was a forgone conclusion. If it was my tongue-in-cheek response to what I considered humorous phrasing from baby_mario and psychup2034 (given my own attempt at levity), I think you'd better be more concerned about how you present yourself over how I present myself.

[baby mario]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Mewtwo EX is a great card, but it doesn't win the game single-handed

This is absolutely true of course. It's completely possible to win games without Mewtwo against decks that do have it.

Here's the problem though: to do that you are overcoming a disadvantage. The person with the Mewtwo(s) has the upper hand. Now I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to go into a game thinking 'my deck could be better than it is' if I can possibly help it. I mean, we all try to make our decks as good as they can be in every other way, don't we?

And right now, for virtually every competitive deck not called Durant, that means Mewtwo.

[Otaku]

baby_mario, you have persuaded me that is at least almost the whole truth, if not the whole truth. My reservation has been that perhaps a few key decks legitimately can make do without Mewtwo EX by using another Pokemon EX that has better synergy with the deck. While I am beginning to be convinced it is unlikely, some very specific decks might actually do better with a different Pokemon EX in place of Mewtwo EX. Maybe.

Disregarding my own personal values for cards, even if one is a striving to build a competitive deck, if their budget is short they will likely have to innovate or lose. Mewtwo EX is that powerful... and expensive. I am curious: one of my comments that probably was lost due to the length of post was was the question of what a player should do if said player must choose: burn the entire budget on Mewtwo EX, or focus on making the rest of the deck as competitive as possible. Not just to baby_mario, but does anyone feel that if someone is in this kind of situation, it would be better to optimize the rest of his or her deck? Perhaps this situation is completely unrealistic, since someone on a very strict budget may need to focus on Durant or simply not playing.

I have been given the impression that Mewtwo EX does win on its own, or at least with the minimal required support to have a competent deck. That is instead of running it in an otherwise complete deck as the current top opener/closer/back-up attacker. I don't think this represents an educated opinion, but that doesn't mean it isn't common. It may be as simple as ol' Otaku getting bogged down by semantics. >.>

[baby mario]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Disregarding my own personal values for cards, even if one is a striving to build a competitive deck, if their budget is short they will likely have to innovate or lose. Mewtwo EX is that powerful... and expensive. I am curious: one of my comments that probably was lost due to the length of post was was the question of what a player should do if said player must choose: burn the entire budget on Mewtwo EX, or focus on making the rest of the deck as competitive as possible. Not just to baby_mario, but does anyone feel that if someone is in this kind of situation, it would be better to optimize the rest of his or her deck? Perhaps this situation is completely unrealistic, since someone on a very strict budget may need to focus on Durant or simply not playing.

That's a very interesting question.

On the face of it, my answer is 'no'. It is not worth blowing your whole budget on a Mewtwo-EX if that means not having enough money to drop on a consistent Trainer engine, or the correct Pokemon lines.

In reality though, this situation will hardly ever arise. Most players will already have their staple trainers and will have few problems getting other Pokemon needed for a deck.

My advice would be to play the best deck that you can afford to play rather than a 'budget' version of an expensive deck. See the budget version will almost always lose out in a mirror match, and will not be performing at full capacity against anything else. I would much rather play something different, but with an optimum list.

I have been given the impression that Mewtwo EX does win on its own, or at least with the minimal required support to have a competent deck. That is instead of running it in an otherwise complete deck as the current top opener/closer/back-up attacker. I don't think this represents an educated opinion, but that doesn't mean it isn't common. It may be as simple as ol' Otaku getting bogged down by semantics. >.>

Mewtwo can win on it's own, as proved by Esa at the ECC. He made top 16 (only losing narrowly) with a deck that ran no other Pokemon besides 4 Celebi Prime and 3 Mewtwo.

[Otaku]

Fascinating. See, I managed to miss that bit of information and it makes a world of difference, especially because before reading it I would (and indeed have) expressed my doubts that Mewtwo EX can carry a deck on its own.

Actually I still have some doubts, but its only been back to "can Mewtwo EX support its own deck when most players have had time to fully prepare?" I didn't play at the ECC (considering I can't even afford to travel to a League in my own country :P), so if someone wants to link me to a good tournament report or just inform me of how many people were packing the two or three copies Mewtwo EX that are a staple (unless a substitute can be found, which seems less and less likely)?

[SuperWooper]

Originally Posted by Otaku

so if someone wants to link me to a good tournament report or just inform me of how many people were packing the two or three copies Mewtwo EX that are a staple (unless a substitute can be found, which seems less and less likely)?

http://www.thedeckout.com/2012/02/ecc-report.html

[baby mario]

Esa's report is right here on the Gym.

Out of the Top 8 of the ECC, only one deck was not running Mewtwo (that was Mees's Mew Toolbox). All of the Top 4 were playing it. As to how many were running it overall, I've heard varying reports. One person told me that every deck they faced in 8 rounds of Swiss (except 1 Durant) played at least 1 copy of Mewtwo, but others have said differently.

Given that the ECC is the only major pre-states tournament, it seems likely that it will lead to an increase in Mewtwo use, at least in the short term.

[Otaku]

Well that pretty much completely undermines any serious arguments I have. Because it's me I am still allowing that there might be some counters out there, but really anyone competitive is going to just go for the Mewtwo EX itself since its established as working, instead of taking a chance that their "miracle counter" no one else is playing is actually undiscovered and not a proven failure. =P

I thank all of you for your patience and information. Better to learn in humility than continue on in proud folly.

[Unfallible]

Originally Posted by thepliskin5005

Well piplup for four energy on reshiram ex you can do 150. So i think thats better. I dont dislike mewtwo ex hes just not my favorite ex.

Well thepliskin for two energy on mewtwo ex you can do 140 to reshiram ex that with four energy and since reshiram ex flipped tails and took 50 it kos reshiram ex and takes two prizes. So i think thats better.

[Pikajew1213]

Honestly reshiram is that big of a threat you will be most likely doing the same each turn which is 60 +. Due to the fact that reshiram is attached at least two energy a turn
Posted with Mobile style...

[doubleaintx]

Garde + Darmax + DCE(s) + (fliptini).....

[Otaku]

Gardevoir only doubles basic Psychic Energy cards when they are attached to Psychic-Type Pokemon; Double Colorless Energy won't be doubled and would thus be no more use in that combo than a basic Psychic Energy.

Skeptical though I was about the full power of Mewtwo EX, this is why a lot of Mewtwo EX counters, apart from Mewtwo EX itself, fall flat. Mewtwo EX can be played well in just about any deck. Darmanitan with DarMAXitan is a 110 HP Stage 1 Pokemon that needs some form of Energy acceleration to work.

Now Double Colorless Energy works reasonably well on its own, but if you're only getting two coin flips, both must then be heads to get the necessary damage to OHKO Mewtwo EX. If it gets zero or one "heads", Mewtwo EX just OHKOs it back. Plus odds are Mewtwo EX didn't come up until it could at least hit something hard, probably for a OHKO. Prize counts are even but you're out a lot more cards.

Weezing is in a similar boat: Super Explosion doesn't hit hard enough to get around Eviolite without help, but even if you do, you've probably lost a Pokemon before this and thus are merely even on Prize count. Other counters I've heard proposed fall prey to similar issues.

[psychup2034]

Originally Posted by doubleaintx

Garde + Darmax + DCE(s) + (fliptini).....

If I see you play down Darumaka, I'm not even going to play down Mewtwo. I'd go aggro Zekrom/Tornadus/whatever instead, since Darmanitan is pretty frail at 110 HP.

[Otaku]

Well, given the 75% chance Darmanitan won't score a OHKO with just a Double Colorless Energy or a single basic Psychic Energy card (in a Gardevoir deck), it is plausible that something else is a bigger threat on the board.

It is no secret that I favor running Gothitelle with Gardevoir (if you're going to run Gothitelle), so in that build I'd be far more worried about Gothitelle/something Evolving into Gothitelle/KOing Gardevoir if a back-up isn't ready. Not exactly a good reason to endorse the tactic. XD