Will dark pokemon be king?

[thepliskin5005]

The next set dark exploers hase a pokemon tool called dark claw. It increase your dark pokemon's attack by twenty damage when attached and dont forget there is the special dark energy also. Here are some card's i found best attached to dark claw.

Zoroak from bw. This card can coppy your opponent attack but with dark claw it copies it and does twenty damage more or evan more!!

Zoroak from ep. This card i find to be underated. It can one shout chandelure and if you have dark claw attached to it 100 damage with no draw backs.

Scrafty from Bw. Scrafty can put your oppoent in to a mean lock with fliptini on the bench. But you can switch to get out of paralized and burned. If its none ex pokemon i doubt your opponent will survive two turns with dark claw attached to scrafty while useing its first attack with out oppent playing switch or you getting two tails.

And remeber there is also the card dark patch to help out dark pokemon and other pokemon to.

[Vablakes]

No mention of Absol Prime? T1 attach Dark Claw, get a Sp. Dark in the discard via Junk Arm or the like, play Dark Patch, attach energy from your hand and swing for 100 T1.

[Chamanda66]

There is also the new krookodile , zoroark, and darkarai ex from dark rush.

[thepliskin5005]

Well that cant work vlab because you need a trainer card in your discard pile in order to use junk arm. And dark patch only works on your benchd pokemon. What would work is use engineers adjustment discard a dark energy have clefa active use dark patch on to absol then attach energy on to absol then retreat with clefa.

[Otaku]

In short, not they will not, but they'll enjoy a major surge in play after BW: Dark Explorers is released, even if all the cards end up falling flat. Fans of Pokemon will just have to try out the new cards. Whatever does work will stick around, but doesn't strike me as BDIF caliber.

Originally Posted by thepliskin5005

The next set dark exploers hase a pokemon tool called dark claw. It increase your dark pokemon's attack by twenty damage when attached and dont forget there is the special dark energy also.

Of course, against the premiere attackers of the format (big Basic Pokemon), that just means Darkness Claw will cancel out Eviolite.

Originally Posted by thepliskin5005

Zoroak from bw. This card can coppy your opponent attack but with dark claw it copies it and does twenty damage more or evan more!!

This is where a few cards make things misleading. The plain versions of Zekrom and Reshiram are just 10 points away from OHKOing each other... and since they have the same HP, you OHKOing them with their own copied attack. This isn't common, plus again factor in Eviolite - using this Zoroark you still must supply another 10 points of damage for the OHKO. That isn't bad, of course.

It is when you pull out for the big picture. Zoroark only has 100 HP, making it a bit small, compared to the big Basic Pokemon, Pokemon EX, and even occasional Stage 2 Pokemon it will be going head-to-head with. Simply put, whatever you invest in it will almost certainly be gone the next turn. Plus many Pokemon can't OHKO themselves (in mirror), so you'll have to invest in Zoroark to shoot for that OHKO yourself.

If it works, it would be brilliant for a Zoroark to urn around and OHKO a Pokemon EX, but unfortunately that isn't happening with the one's we've got right now, unless you spam PlusPower or all your Special Energy Darkness Energy.

Originally Posted by thepliskin5005

Zoroak from ep. This card i find to be underated. It can one shout chandelure and if you have dark claw attached to it 100 damage with no draw backs.

Except the same set that brings us Darkness Claw probably brings us this:

Originally Posted by Translation from Pokebeach.com

Zoroark 100HP
Stage 1 – Evolves from Zorua
Beatdown: Does 20 damage times the number of Darkness-type Pokemon you have in play.
Dark Rush: Does 20 damage times the number of damage counters on this Pokemon.
Weakness: (x2)
Resistance: (-20)
Retreat:

With everything else coming in the set, Beatdown should be an easy 120 Turn 2+, and if for some reason your opponent doesn't OHKO Zekrom (trying to think of how to handle that... Defender, maybe?), Dark Rush will likely be amazing (if you're hanging on with less than 40 HP, then it does more than Beatdown with a full Bench!).

Originally Posted by thepliskin5005

Scrafty from Bw. Scrafty can put your oppoent in to a mean lock with fliptini on the bench. But you can switch to get out of paralized and burned. If its none ex pokemon i doubt your opponent will survive two turns with dark claw attached to scrafty while useing its first attack with out oppent playing switch or you getting two tails.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I will not deny that Darkness Claw helps that Scrafty, but it is hardly worth mentioning. Your combo of a Stage 1, a Pokemon Tool, an Energy an Energy still only works 3/4 of the time on your end. The effect of it "working" is only a 50% chance of two more damage counters between turns, and if your opponent Evolves, Retreats, or burns a Switch, its gone. That means at best it would be a "soft lock". You could improve it by adding in a Benched Vileplume so that only Evolving breaks the lock (and of course, a lot of attackers can't Evolve farther) but... well that is probably the best way to use Scrafty, but you're halfway to a better deck. Plus you of course must get Darkness Claw attached before you drop Vileplume.

Originally Posted by thepliskin5005

And remeber there is also the card dark patch to help out dark pokemon and other pokemon to.

Indeed, I'd say it is as important or more important than Darkness Claw for a lot of them.

Originally Posted by Vablakes

No mention of Absol Prime? T1 attach Dark Claw, get a Sp. Dark in the discard via Junk Arm or the like, play Dark Patch, attach energy from your hand and swing for 100 T1.

Absol Prime was helped majorly by Skyarrow Bridge, since it becomes a free retreater. That way you can open with it, and get it out of the way easily. If your opponent focuses on it, they ignore your real attacker. If they ignore it, you can throw it up later when it can really hurt.

You do need to read the spoiler for Dark Patch:

Originally Posted by Pokebeach.com

Dark Patch – Trainer
Choose 1 Basic Darkness Energy card from your discard pile and attach it to one of your Benched Darkness-type Pokemon.
You can use any number of Trainer cards during your turn.
64/69

As thepliskin5005 stated, something else has to be Active, so you can Dark Patch to something on your Bench. You can manually attach a Special Energy, but Dark Patch only works on basic Darkness Energy cards. Hitting for 100 means using another Pokemon and either Switch or something you can manually Retreat. If you manage to get two basic Darkness Energy cards into your discard pile, you could double up on Dark Patch and use your manual Energy attachment on an Active to hopefully pay for its Retreat Cost, but then your combo only does 90, which isn't bad.


It really is in the deck set-up. Absol Prime opening (unless you needed it for something like a Cleffa) means anything your opponent doesn't play down pre-game but plays that first turn gets stuck with an extra 2 damage counters on it. If that's a Zekrom, even one they equip with Eviolite, Bolt Strike would do 20 more points of self-damage... and then it only has 90 HP left.


Note, I said Zekrom with Eviolite: we still aren't getting a OHKO without even more help, which is why I keep saying these Quickstrike Darkness decks are going to need PlusPower. Darkness Claw effectively negates Eviolite, so now Special Darkness Energy and PlusPower can go back to doing their thing. If Xtransceiver wasn't a flip and/or we still had Vs Seeker, Black Belt would be a lot more useful.


Charmanda66, I do like that Krookodile, but it looks like it will be tricky to get going. With two Dark Patch and a Double Colorless Energy, while I wouldn't plan on pulling the combo off more than once, you could power one up fully in a single turn. Once you've got three Prizes taken, it's solid.( for 120). Four Prizes taken and it's good (four for 160, OHKO range for a non-Pokemon EX). When you're on your last Prize anyway, you get a massive 200 points of damage, somewhat ironically enough to OHKO any Pokemon EX, even when it has Eviolite attached (the irony is you only need one Prize then).


Darkrai EX looks promising. Open with Absol Prime ideally. Use the appropriate Supporter (or Item followed by a Junk Arm) to get some basic Darkness Energy into the discard pile, and while it will require a double Dark Patch you'll have Darkrai EX ready to go your first turn. Attach whatever Pokemon Tool looks most useful for the situation (probably Eviolite or Darkness Claw) and go to town. Ideally everything is already a little injured from Absol Prime, and your opponent now has you OHKOing the Defending Pokemon while you keep building damage on the Bench, setting up more KOs (possibly two at a time).


Darkrai & Cresselia LEGEND aren't helped that much, but anything that spreads damage (see above) might have a good use for them.


A 1-1 Honchkrow line (version with Vengeance), while risky, might work in a Pokemon heavy deck now, since you can power it up in a single turn. Sadly you still can't EVOLVE it in a single turn, so it will be seen coming. Kind of doubtful, since it takes 11 Pokemon in the discard pile before it becomes decent; it'd be another Pokemon to save for late game then.


I suppose if you're feeling real lucky and can play the necessary cards (and make them succeed) to strip your opponent's hand to almost nothing, now either Houndoom can at least function. It is sad though; the one that discards cards is so small it needs help discarding so that it can hopefully somehow OHKO (or use Crushing Hammer to strip of Energy) whatever your opponent opened with. The other is hardier but still isn't doing enough to the Defending Pokemon to stay alive. At least Darkness Claw still ups their damage and Dark Patch still speeds them up.


Hydreigon will have some better back-up and speed. I can really see Absol Prime/Darkrai EX/Hydreigon work now. I still don't expect it to be a top deck, but when you have all of those hitting the Defending Pokemon pretty hard while softening up the Bench, you basically are only losing to everything that OHKOs you fast.


...

It doesn't help much, but Sharpedo decks will benefit a little from the anticipated Trainers.


Tyranitar decks will benefit (mostly the Prime, but if you really wanted to use the non-Prime, it would technically be better than it currently is), as would the old Weavile.


Hmm... really pretty depressing if you think about it. Most of the Darkness-Type Pokemon we have or know we are getting really aren't all that great.

[Tash]

The main problem with dark types is that they just can't take a hit. In a format where things get set up instantly, that's not a good thing.

[Otaku]

That's why I am wondering if Darkness Types are best off using a spread style set-up. If (and this is a big if) you can actually keep them up and running (and spreading) you might be able to outpace the countdown to loosing.

[Calm_Lava]

Hydreigon if pp and darkness claw add 30 damage to the bench damage
Posted with Mobile style...

[cabd]

Originally Posted by Calm_Lava

Hydreigon if pp and darkness claw add 30 damage to the bench damage
Posted with Mobile style...

They don't. It's only added to the active.

[Otaku]

Right. Hydreigon has potential because Absol Prime is now a better opener, and with Darkness Claw, its Berserker Blade will hit the active for 80 damage. With the extra damage counter placement from Absol Prime and the spread damage going on as well, you might be able to afford the Prize or two you're going to get behind using a spread strategy. Darkness Claw thus matters because the damage against the Defending Pokemon is so poor on Berserker Blade. Dark Patch will help Hydereigon set up faster, which is ever more important. All this is a big maybe. Darkrai EX is also a factor: if it proves worthwhile, the above is more likely to matter.

[TheDoctor]

Originally Posted by thepliskin5005

Well that cant work vlab because you need a trainer card in your discard pile in order to use junk arm. And dark patch only works on your benchd pokemon. What would work is use engineers adjustment discard a dark energy have clefa active use dark patch on to absol then attach energy on to absol then retreat with clefa.

You also have Ultra Ball to discard energy which also allows you to grab a Pokemon for Absol if you're going that route.

[gyarados35]

Another thing about a dark deck is that it lacks a none evolving attacker that can take down or compete with everything else (dragons) zoroak is a good idea but it is only a short term fix plus almost every thing else needs to evolve. which will make this deck way to slow and will get creamed by almost every t1 deck.

[thepliskin5005]

I thought of that the doctor. What do you mean gyarados there is absol prime and darkri ex. And you can evolve in to zoroak right away with the new zorua comeing out.

[gyarados35]

Both Absol prime and zoroak can be killed by most big hitters and zoroak can not one hit them with out the plus power and absol cant attack inless you remove a pokemon from your hand and darkri ex can only do 90 but it snipes, can any one say ko terykian

[koolkidhp]

tyranitar prime or krookodile (Dark rush) paired with it?? for pokemon lines i am thinking something like this:
2-1-2 tyranitar prime/krookodile dark rush (will have candys)
4-4 zoroark (2 dark rush, 2 BW) (if using tyranitar prime 3-3 2 dark rush, 1 BW)
2 darkrai EX
2-2 mandibuzz BW (only if using T-Tar prime)
i came up with this off the top of my head so it probally isn't great, but a start/skeleton.

[JandPDS]

Sorry but in this Big Basic format, (thanks to the new EX's it is now worse then durring the SP days) you will rarly have the time to set up two Sage lines in one deck. The faster decks will overwhelm you.

[Otaku]

koolkidhp: Are you trying to run Tyranitar Prime on its own, or alongside the upcoming Krookodile? I read it as either/or, but I wanted to make sure. The two together would be more or less suicidal.

In General: I am not willing to write off Stage 2 Pokemon yet, but perhaps I am being naive. Still, the general rule of TCGs is if you don't plan for it, that's what gets you. You may not need a specific counter, but you need to know how to play it. Since people have a hard time reacting logically under pressure (say at a high level event), that usually means drilling on how to best counter with what you have on hand.

So Tyranitar (HS: Unleashed 88/95) definitely has issues against Fighting Pokemon... but it also is huge. It may be a Stage 2, but it is a Stage 2 that is just 20 points shy of the maximum this format. I didn't think any of the anticipated Pokemon EX jacked the HP max up any higher, so while it may not last long, it should at least survive a hit. More on why that matters in a moment.

First, seriously how close/what is needed for our current Pokemon EX to OHKO T-tar Prime.

Kyurem EX: Misses by 40.
Mewtwo EX: X-Ball requires a total of nine Energy cards between them.
Regigigas EX: If down to 70- HP, Raging Hammer scores a OHKO.
Reshiram EX: Misses by 10
Shaymin EX: Opponent has to have taken five Prizes.
Zekrom EX: Misses by 10.

What about ones out in Japan? They appear more "technical" than what we have now.

Kyogre EX: Either 30 to the Defending Pokemon, or 50 to 2 on bench.
Groudon EX: 20 and 10 to opponent's Bench, or 80 (+40 if Defending Pokemon has 2+ damage counters on it).
Raikou EX: 30 w/50% chance of Paralysis, or discard all Enregy for 100 that can hit Active or Bench.
Entei EX: 30 with Burn, or 90 and attach a Energy from discard to something on your Bench.
Darkrai EX: 90 against Defending Pokemon, 30 to something on the Bench. Has Poke-Body that zeroes out Retreat Cost on Pokemon with any Energy attached.
Tornadus EX: 30 (60 if there is a Stadium in play, or 100 w/50% chance of discarding 1 Energy from self.
Giratina EX: 90 while ignoring effects on Defending Pokemon, or 130 and must discard top 3 cards of own deck.
Rayquaza EX: Discard the top 3 cards of your deck and attach Energy from said discard to itself, or discard all or Energy for 60 points of damage per Energy discarded.

So... Groundon EX via Weakness and Rayquaza by discarding three of the appropriate Energy from itself. Added to a nearly KOed Regigigas EX, an Energy laden Mewtwo EX, or Shaymin EX doing its "surprise ending KO" trick. Without outside sources of damage, only five. That's kind of good, actually.

I am wondering if how T-tar Prime is apt to be played is being ignored. With a Darkrai EX on the Bench, it has a free Retreat Cost while it has a Energy attached. I bring this up since I assumed first we'd spam Darkness Howl, hopefully after an Absol Prime open. Thanks to Darkrai EX and Dark Patch, you never know when an opponent can shift from spread to a fully healthy, fully Energized T-tar Prime that (thanks to prexisting damage) can safely do enough in one hit to finish off the important Pokemon that were in play., or if you have all the T-tar in your deck go down howling (I am allowing for three), Darkrai EX itself is likely taking two Prizes per attack.

Darkrai EX is as hard to OHKO as any of the other Pokemon EX, so if they pick on that Absol Prime you just get an extra Darkness Howl. I am hoping there will be room for Max Potion: if T-tar Prime is just using a single Energy, no harm healing it between attacks.

Plenty to go wrong of course: your opponent might easily be able to power up their own Pokemon for the OHKO after all, I am working with a Stage 2, your opponent may be able to ride out the damage spread, etc.

[koolkidhp]

@otaku i meant either or

[thepliskin5005]

Ill say terikan could be very well a problem here but in my deck im planning to have a 2 2 mandibuzz in there. And darkri ex can hit over ninety. And zoroak does good aginst mewtwo ex.

[koolkidhp]

1 mewtwo ex sorts terrakion
Posted with Mobile style...

[baby mario]

It really doesn't.

You will need a 4-5 Energy on a Mewtwo that will likely be KO'd by your opponent's Mewtwo + DCE next turn.

[Dark Shedinja]

To the question of the thread: No.
Raikou/Eels have the important consistency, they have Terrakion to OHKO your stuff and last but not least, they will KO your benched Zoroark.

But I think Darkness has some potential as a independent Deck, if you play it with most consistency and keep your eyes on the most important Pokémon.

Pokémon to think about:

Zoroark DE:

First attack is powerful, but you have to know if it´s necessery in your Metagame.
What I mean is: You can always 2HKO a EX, you don´t need a Zoroark for that.
And a single Cleffa, a single Shaymin makes the attack average.

Weavile UD:

My favourite tech, early disruption can cripple the opponent for the rest of the game.
That´s enough reason for me to play it, but you have to consider that it´ll be a benchsitter afterwards.

Unown D_A_R_K:

Makes Energy searchable, good for donking, but a benchsitter aswell.

Sableye DE:

Great, just get your Catchers and Patches back into your hand.

Must haves:

Darkrai EX:

Big Basic, should be clear why played.

Zoroark BW:

Copy Raikou, copy Zekrom, copy anything.

Darkness Patch:

Acceleration for this Deck

Darkness Claw:

20 more damage.


The BIG PROBLEM is Terrakion. It OHKOs everything but a Darkrai w/ Eviolite.
IMO, your only chance is to Claw Snag when it´s on your opponents hand or, if it´s played a turn before it attacks, to catch it to the active spot and KO it with Darkrai EX.

[thepliskin5005]

Well baby mario you can still use the bw zoroak and copy xball with doing more damage with darkness claw. I know this will have problems with cmt.

[Otaku]

For a Foul Play copied X-Ball to OHKO a healthy Mewtwo EX, there must be a total of nine Energy between Mewtwo EX and Zoroark (both of which normally operate on two Energy), assuming no Tools or Darkness Claw canceling out Eviolite. You're better off most of the time copying Psydrive: the discard doesn't matter since Zoroark is as good as KOed.

Also, let's be honest, neither version of Mandibuzz is worth running unless there's another card we don't know about that improves them.

• 90 HP
• Lightning Weak
• Stage 1

Most decks can OHKO them. Lightning decks will be able to OHKO them even easier than normal. Maybe if this was a Basic Pokemon, but it is a Stage 1.


Why do you want to run Fighting Resistance?


To frustrate Terrakion heavy decks, right? Well, what does that get you? Terrakion needs a second turn assuming the person running use PlusPower twice, or Mandibuzz is uninjured itself. What can Black & White Mandibuzz do?

• 50 points of damage to something already injured for a cost of ()
• 60 for (), or 100 if it is a Stage 2.

What about BW: Emerging Powers Mandibuzz? Better, but not by much.

• 50% chance of zero for (). 50% chance of at least doing 30.
• For (), 20+ 10 per Energy you have in play.

I can see how either seem nice at a glance, but remember they are as good as KOed after their first attack. Unless you want to run some bizarre Hydreigon/Emboar/Mandibuzz deck, the second attack really isn't going to hit too hard: how often will it be safe to let a bunch of Bench-sitters be loaded with Energy?


I'd look into running an off-type splash or some other counter-Terrakion measure.

[thepliskin5005]

Wow otaku you need to chill out i said i was thinking about it. I meant the ep mandibuzz and you can have dark claw attached to it.