Werewolf xvi the rise of team plasma: Town wins

[Diaz]

375
If you need a bump jp, here it is.

[jpulice]

Less talking less
Chance to be
Caught in lies
Townies shouldn't lie
Thank you Diaz

[PokeChampofPokeBeach]

@ #372 :

I fail to see how a someone who votes for players because they are going on vacation, or because they cast a vote against him, or for any other numerous amount of reasons that are, if we are all being honest here, completely ridiculous and baseless can do anything but be completely destructive to the game. Diaz could just as easily be a Werewolf and his playstyle would effectively conceal that. How can you tell if someone made a slip-up when every post that Diaz makes is borderline trolling? If Diaz were a wolf, I want to know DarthPika how you could tell. What would give it away? Every post he makes is more useless than the next. I repeat, how can you tell?

Though I agree that, all in all, PMysterious is probably the best candidate for the lynch at the moment. But I'm not going to just write off Diaz' play because he does the same thing every game. I agree with Cantor, he lied to us. Deceit isn't exactly a quality of the innocent.

[DarthPika]

There is nothing to support Diaz being a wolf, or a townie. I've seen him play like this before though, so I really don't think we should make a big deal out of it for now. He could be a wolf, I don't know. He could also be an indi or a townie. The bottom line is, he knows what he's doing, and I think our efforts are better spent on removing those who don't know what they're doing first.

[sdrawkcab]

The last time today I will be posting in regards to Diaz, Just to be clear, he didn't "lie" about having a role, he did however pretend he had one.

As I stated in my last post, I feel the only reason Diaz played this way is because it would be suspicious if he didn't. Its seems to me he's likely not-town aligned. (should I end up being right about this read I am the best WW ever ;-), if im wrong then I'll retire from professional pokegym WW games =p)



On the other hand, I would rather see a PMysterious day 1 lynch then no lynch at all.

[orcmonkey2000]

380

Originally Posted by PMysterious

@orcmonkey2000: Is there any reason that you want to vote for me other than the suspicious reason you came up with? If there is, say it. Otherwise, get off my case
...
Challenge: Jellyfisher, JewelQuest, and orcmonkey 2000 at the same time.

To be fair, Pikamaster came up with it, I merely agreed. But no, there is no further reason. And you have yet to explain yourself, or present any evidence in your own defense short of blasting everyone who voted for you for getting on your case. So my vote stays on you for the time being. Give me one good, logical reason to unvote you, and you have my word, I will do so.

Although I must say the challenging/unchallenging bit does make me lean towards the "nervous newbie" theory (I don't mean that as an insult--I'm a noob too)--although I'm still not sure whether to think you are a scared wolf or a scared townie at the moment.



[QUOTE=TheKing;2236550]I don't like how he just quoted Pikamaster and used that as an excuse to vote for you either./QUOTE]

Call it what you will, I agreed with Pikamaster's post and acted upon that agreement in a (to me) logical manner, hoping to contribute to putting some pressure on PMysterious to reveal something about his role/goals/reasons for acting so strangely.

Originally Posted by DarthPika

...I think our efforts are better spent on removing those who don't know what they're doing first.

I'm going to say I don't really like this sentiment, and it's not (just) because I'm a noob--nor am I admitting to not knowing what I'm doing. How exactly do you expect new people to learn how to play the game if you vote them out just because they're new and don't immediately pick up on every nuance of the game? Sounds like elitism to me...

[Cardzmaster2004]

Votes to lynch : 16!

Vote count:

Diaz (2): sdrawkcab, Cantor
Sdrawkcab (1): Diaz
Dave628 (2): pokemonfreak5, scottistru
Pmysterious (3): jellyfisher, jewelquest, orcmonkey2000

Continue play!

~Cardz.

[Benzo]

Seems to me that Diaz is "testing" for reactions, and I am interested in seeing where this goes on his part. As for Ulti, challenging someone could be one of three possabilities:
1. Could be agressive attempt to stir things up.
2. Could be a way to test/call out a player to get info under pressure.
3. Could be an attempt to look innocent as being a townie yet holding a role thats not to promising for the town with an ability to gain info for plotting for the night.

I think I have spotted a lie already, but I need to wait and re-look at the postings before making a vote. I do not think it is a solid lie as of yet. I will elaborate when I re-read what I think I may have spotted.

I would also like to hear from the unspoken, I know the day has little in it to analize at this time.

Don't waste votes on people on red-zone warning status from the mod(s)- as non contribution leads to replacement and nothing to go on results in little with horrible results.

I should be able to check in on here over the weekend, I do not have my laptop on this trip but accomplices will. So, IF I do not post, its is due to exhastion and lack of time, totaly unintentional.

Side note: I would hope that people would understand that since this is a community, and plenty of people make up the community that actually run/assist/staff Resgional's, leagues, ect...... that our part in this is real-life vs internet, and I do prefer real life and support the community, and this game is one of my internet priorities, but nothing compared to doing what I enjoy most. Please do not be so hard on us who are attending/staffing, ect.... to events- this site is catered to that and this is secondary.

Feel free to vote for me if I am inactive for the next three/four days- I will simply appologise and sig up for the next game is all with no hard feelings.

b.o.t:

So, too early for me to really make a great vote at this time. I await to see what unfolds in the next to days. (if time allows, that is.

[cabd]

383



Benzo, I’m quite interested to hear what lie you’ve found. I await your revealing it once you’re sure of it.

New players. Please, for the love of the great Arceus, read this, at the very least:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?...Guide_to_Mafia

And to link the important part about your questions:

Originally Posted by From_the_Mafia_Wiki

A scumtell, strictly speaking, is an action that reveals a player to be scum. The term "tell" originates from card games such as poker, wherein players will subconsciously or involuntarily reveal how good their hand is and the other players can act accordingly.

In practice, "scumtell" is used to describe scummy actions; that is, actions that scum players are more likely to do in Town.

Scumtells are usually divided between game-based tells and meta-based tells. Game-based tells, or "objective scumtells", are generic tells that scum will generally fall into regardless of who they are. JEEP's Common Tells are examples of this - players would commit these tells as any alignment without realizing it, simply because it appeared to be advantageous for them to do so. Meta-based tells, or "personal scumtells", are tells that are specific to a player. For instance, an ordinarily active player who is known to lurk as scum can be said to have a meta-based scumtell - if they lurk, they're more likely to be scum.

It is worth noting that while "tells" are wonderful when other players commit them, players themselves do not like being read. After all, a scum player who can easily be read as scum is not a very good scum player. Thus, as soon as players become aware of their own meta, they will generally start trying to change them or intentionally break them.

I’ll agree with the majority that PM is acting quite silly and downright stupid at times, but I think I’d rather see if anyone else comes out of the woodwork. PM, if I was you, I’d really re-focus my efforts. Actually, you remind me a LOT of the first game I played where I was scum. You’re making many of the same mistakes as I made during the previous game as Darth Pikachu; but not enough that I feel 100% ready to vote for you. Redeem yourself.

I’m not currently too worried about Ulti. I suppose if he is doing something for nefarious reasons, I’ll be a target tonight. If so, then you guys know what to do. I honestly don’t think he is; though.

Honestly, I agree with most of Benzo’s post. It’s silly to waste votes on null-reads, especially red-zoned inactives. Voting for them has little point when the moderator just called them out for it. Let’s keep people talking, and get as much readable information out there as possible.

[ProHawk]

Originally Posted by DarthPika

The bottom line is, he knows what he's doing, and I think our efforts are better spent on removing those who don't know what they're doing first.

Woah! This game isn't rocket science man... This is a complete game about manipulation, lies and logic. Although you didn't explicitly say that you wanted to remove the new players, I feel from your tone that is what you meant. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you have already made my list of suspicion solely due to the fact you are targeting not based on the premise of what is best for the town, but rather on what you feel would make a better, more interesting game. Be cautious of who you accuse, voting or otherwise. Just my two cents.

[baby mario]

I've never liked Darthpika's 'never vote off a vet because they know what they are doing' principle. Diaz is being deliberately disruptive and confusing, and I'm not sure how that can be of benefit to the town, regardless of his alignment.

However, it seems like on every Day 1, some new player will act all hinky and make themselves the least-worst-case-scenario lynch. That is to say, even if they ARE Town, they are playing so badly that they would be less of a loss than any other Town player.

It seems PMysterious has taken on that role in this game. I'm not going to insist of a defence, because that could bait him into an unwise role reveal (which should really be a last resort). However, I would like to see some kind of positive contribution from him pretty quickly.

[Pikamaster]

Originally Posted by ProHawk

Woah! This game isn't rocket science man... This is a complete game about manipulation, lies and logic. Although you didn't explicitly say that you wanted to remove the new players, I feel from your tone that is what you meant. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you have already made my list of suspicion solely due to the fact you are targeting not based on the premise of what is best for the town, but rather on what you feel would make a better, more interesting game. Be cautious of who you accuse, voting or otherwise. Just my two cents.

Just a note, ProHawk. Players who don't know what they're doing =/= new players. There have been a lot of new players who come out with a decent if not good grasp of the game and make good posts and help whatever their cause is a lot. What I feel DP means, and what I agree with, is that I would rather lynch a new player who's making illogical, unhelpful, confusing, aggressive, and/or stupid posts who will almost definitely be a liability later rather than lynching a player who is known to be good and is just stirring things up, whether for sake of conversation or otherwise, and will almost definitely stop, or at least not be swayed by arguments from the wolves later.

To restate that, if that was confusing, Diaz is doing what he's doing on purpose, for whatever reason that may be. Whether he's town, wolf or indie, we don't know right now. But he's not playing like this because he doesn't know what he's doing.

PMysterious, on the other hand, is being just as bad, if not worse, and stirring things up, making bad posts, etc. He's not doing this on purpose, and therefor is unlikely to change. I'm not saying that he can't change, but he hasn't yet (although granted, it's only be one day). To look at it from a logical standpoint, who would you rather vote for (I am not in support of voting either player just yet, so this is just an example so everyone can see the logic behind "don't vote a vet off day one". Would you rather vote for someone you know will change later, and if they don't, at least you know that they could and can tell them to shape up or they'll be lynched? Or would you rather vote for someone who can't improve their game and will almost always be the same liability?

[DarthPika]

Originally Posted by orcmonkey2000

I'm going to say I don't really like this sentiment, and it's not (just) because I'm a noob--nor am I admitting to not knowing what I'm doing. How exactly do you expect new people to learn how to play the game if you vote them out just because they're new and don't immediately pick up on every nuance of the game? Sounds like elitism to me...

Getting too emotional is exactly the kind of thing that will get you lynched. I have nothing against new players. However, I can tell those who kind of have an idea from what to do, from those who are going to lead the town down the fiery path of destruction. It's day one, and day one is where usually the first person to make a dumb mistake gets lynched... meaning usually a new player. If you're a new player, and start digging your own grave, most people here, including me will tell them what they're doing, why it's a bad idea, and to kindly stop or else they'll likely get voted off.

Originally Posted by ProHawk

Woah! This game isn't rocket science man... This is a complete game about manipulation, lies and logic. Although you didn't explicitly say that you wanted to remove the new players, I feel from your tone that is what you meant. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you have already made my list of suspicion solely due to the fact you are targeting not based on the premise of what is best for the town, but rather on what you feel would make a better, more interesting game. Be cautious of who you accuse, voting or otherwise. Just my two cents.

Voting off new players who have no idea what they're doing is in the best interest for the town. I don't care if it's a new player or not, I care about how they're playing. When Diaz played his first game, I went great lengths to save him from being lynched. What I don't want to see is illogical play. Vets playing illogical have a bit more lee way, since they obviously know what they're doing, and it's usually in the towns best interest to observe them for a while to see what they're doing. New players who play illogical don't have that luxury. Until they've proven otherwise, new players who are over emotional and illogical are nothing but puppets for the wolves.

Originally Posted by baby mario

I've never liked Darthpika's 'never vote off a vet because they know what they are doing' principle. Diaz is being deliberately disruptive and confusing, and I'm not sure how that can be of benefit to the town, regardless of his alignment.

However, it seems like on every Day 1, some new player will act all hinky and make themselves the least-worst-case-scenario lynch. That is to say, even if they ARE Town, they are playing so badly that they would be less of a loss than any other Town player.

I wouldn't say never vote off a vet. However, a vet who is acting illogical has a reason for it. It is planned, and there is a strategy. They also, if town aligned, won't be easily fooled by the wolves. A new payer acts like that, not because they chose to, but because they are. That's not good for the town.

[Diaz]

Originally Posted by DarthPika

Getting too emotional is exactly the kind of thing that will get you lynched. I have nothing against new players. However, I can tell those who kind of have an idea from what to do, from those who are going to lead the town down the fiery path of destruction. It's day one, and day one is where usually the first person to make a dumb mistake gets lynched... meaning usually a new player. If you're a new player, and start digging your own grave, most people here, including me will tell them what they're doing, why it's a bad idea, and to kindly stop or else they'll likely get voted off.



Voting off new players who have no idea what they're doing is in the best interest for the town. I don't care if it's a new player or not, I care about how they're playing. When Diaz played his first game, I went great lengths to save him from being lynched. What I don't want to see is illogical play. Vets playing illogical have a bit more lee way, since they obviously know what they're doing, and it's usually in the towns best interest to observe them for a while to see what they're doing. New players who play illogical don't have that luxury. Until they've proven otherwise, new players who are over emotional and illogical are nothing but puppets for the wolves.



I wouldn't say never vote off a vet. However, a vet who is acting illogical has a reason for it. It is planned, and there is a strategy. They also, if town aligned, won't be easily fooled by the wolves. A new payer acts like that, not because they chose to, but because they are. That's not good for the town.

QFT. Also, for anyone who doens't get it, my "challenge" was a joke. Anything else I posted in bold that wasn't a vote *wasn't real*. I think players are copying that and "challenging" other players while thinking that it has some actual in-game value. If it isn't in your role, it doesn't actually do anything.

[ProHawk]

@ DarthPika

Thank you for clarifying, it makes a little more sense, and I can agree with your logical argument, although I still feel your tone is a bit confrontational.

[desufnoc]

I think Pikamaster summed it up perfectly. I am new myself at this game but I didn't feel offended at all about what DarthPika said. I am sure he would vote for whoever he thought was a wolf regardless of being a vet or a new player.

[PokeChampofPokeBeach]

I have to agree with DP for now. While I still don't like the way Diaz plays, I have to agree, no matter whose side he is on, he does know what he is doing. Can't say the same for PMysterious.

[TheKing]

Originally Posted by DarthPika

Getting too emotional is exactly the kind of thing that will get you lynched. I have nothing against new players. However, I can tell those who kind of have an idea from what to do, from those who are going to lead the town down the fiery path of destruction. It's day one, and day one is where usually the first person to make a dumb mistake gets lynched... meaning usually a new player. If you're a new player, and start digging your own grave, most people here, including me will tell them what they're doing, why it's a bad idea, and to kindly stop or else they'll likely get voted off.



Voting off new players who have no idea what they're doing is in the best interest for the town. I don't care if it's a new player or not, I care about how they're playing. When Diaz played his first game, I went great lengths to save him from being lynched. What I don't want to see is illogical play. Vets playing illogical have a bit more lee way, since they obviously know what they're doing, and it's usually in the towns best interest to observe them for a while to see what they're doing. New players who play illogical don't have that luxury. Until they've proven otherwise, new players who are over emotional and illogical are nothing but puppets for the wolves.



I wouldn't say never vote off a vet. However, a vet who is acting illogical has a reason for it. It is planned, and there is a strategy. They also, if town aligned, won't be easily fooled by the wolves. A new payer acts like that, not because they chose to, but because they are. That's not good for the town.

Originally Posted by DarthPika

The more I think about it, the more Diaz's logic bothers me. He doesn't seem like someone who would use such... bad logic. I don't care how bad at math you are. ANYONE can see that the odds of randomly hitting a skilled wolf out of many skilled townies is next to none. Even if Diaz is a towni, I don't want someone around who is going to try and lynch the best players. That just doesn't make any sense. I agree with Lucario EX that his role sounds like he could be some form of indi, probably a potentially dangerous one at that. Even if he isn't, I don't like someone making big moves like that on the very first day when we have next to nothing to go off of. It's just not smart.

Therefore,

UNVOTE: Smacktac15

VOTE: Diaz

Diaz, if you want me to change my mind on this, why are YOU vaulable to the town? If you are a towni with a vaulable role, I don't want you lynched. But as it stands, you seem to be more of a threat to the town than anything else. Please, convince me otherwise.

Because this totally looks like you going to great lengths to stop him from being lynched...

[ultimatedra]

Originally Posted by Diaz

QFT. Also, for anyone who doens't get it, my "challenge" was a joke. Anything else I posted in bold that wasn't a vote *wasn't real*. I think players are copying that and "challenging" other players while thinking that it has some actual in-game value. If it isn't in your role, it doesn't actually do anything.

Just checked into my hotel for regionals. Gone for 24 hours and I see that people are trying to test out "Challenge"s. And a vote if I didn't accept PMysterious? Really? Just throwing it around at several people and hitting me for a vote?

I said that I would be AFK for a while until I got to my hotel - was about 24 hours and it is uncalled for to vote like that. I like how so many people were able to draw out PMysterious to play better, I find it odd that there was a 7 minute gap from PM's post, JewlQuest's response, and 5 minutes before it was taken back.

I am seeing small gaps here so I would guess these two are communicating using other means - be it wolf, mason, or whatever. Something I would watch in the future.

Wow - that is quite the change in gameplay Diaz. Way to show that you aren't just a troll for the 1st day. I take back what I said about ignoring you, this post was commendable.

I want to see how many more "Challenges" go out before people stop doing it without result.

Vote:undecided (PM, Jewel, and Dave are on my suspicion list though)

[Pikamaster]

Originally Posted by TheKing

Because this totally looks like you going to great lengths to stop him from being lynched...

TheKing... Normally I wouldn't say something, but this is just stupid... Yes, DP did go to great lengths to keep Diaz from being lynched. He never said that he didn't question him or consider lynching him at one point.. The fact that you're doing this to try to make DP look bad just makes you look bad in my eyes. You've played a couple games, you're not exactly a noob. So why do this?

[TheKing]

Originally Posted by Pikamaster

TheKing... Normally I wouldn't say something, but this is just stupid... Yes, DP did go to great lengths to keep Diaz from being lynched. He never said that he didn't question him or consider lynching him at one point.. The fact that you're doing this to try to make DP look bad just makes you look bad in my eyes. You've played a couple games, you're not exactly a noob. So why do this?

It was just a joke, I didn't mean anything. I just found it funny when DP said he went to great lengths to save Diaz when he acaatually id vote for him.

[JewelQuest]

Originally Posted by ultimatedra

Just checked into my hotel for regionals. Gone for 24 hours and I see that people are trying to test out "Challenge"s. And a vote if I didn't accept PMysterious? Really? Just throwing it around at several people and hitting me for a vote?

I said that I would be AFK for a while until I got to my hotel - was about 24 hours and it is uncalled for to vote like that. I like how so many people were able to draw out PMysterious to play better, I find it odd that there was a 7 minute gap from PM's post, JewlQuest's response, and 5 minutes before it was taken back.

I am seeing small gaps here so I would guess these two are communicating using other means - be it wolf, mason, or whatever. Something I would watch in the future.

Wow - that is quite the change in gameplay Diaz. Way to show that you aren't just a troll for the 1st day. I take back what I said about ignoring you, this post was commendable.

I want to see how many more "Challenges" go out before people stop doing it without result.

Vote:undecided (PM, Jewel, and Dave are on my suspicion list though)

...Or it could just be that we were on at the same time when we posted those. If you were accused by someone, and that person was on at the same time as you, wouldn't you respond right away.
To be honest, I didn't even realize he was on at the same time as me until after I had posted and he posted again, and I didn't even realize I had posted within seven minutes of him posting the first time until you pointed it out.
Also, I am posting this soon after you post that. Why is this? Because I happen to be on at the same time as you. Just because a couple of people have a small argument in the space of a few minutes doesn't mean they are communicating with other means.

[Pikamaster]

Originally Posted by TheKing

It was just a joke, I didn't mean anything. I just found it funny when DP said he went to great lengths to save Diaz when he acaatually id vote for him.

Thank you for clarifying... but maybe a smiley should be used, if you're going to make a post like that.

[ultimatedra]

Originally Posted by JewelQuest

...Or it could just be that we were on at the same time when we posted those. If you were accused by someone, and that person was on at the same time as you, wouldn't you respond right away.
To be honest, I didn't even realize he was on at the same time as me until after I had posted and he posted again, and I didn't even realize I had posted within seven minutes of him posting the first time until you pointed it out.
Also, I am posting this soon after you post that. Why is this? Because I happen to be on at the same time as you. Just because a couple of people have a small argument in the space of a few minutes doesn't mean they are communicating with other means.

Alright - you are just VERY punctual then in your posts. And quick to type as well. You have shown this just now and I apologize.

Do you get emails when there is a reply or something? or are just stalking the thread? Neither are bad but I am amazed on how quickly you respond to posts.

[TheKing]

Originally Posted by Pikamaster

Thank you for clarifying... but maybe a smiley should be used, if you're going to make a post like that.

I was considering using this but decided against it D: