Espeon

[cabd]

Originally Posted by honchvire

I'm not sure Espeon/Lanturn Prime is BDIF. It certaintly is a silly SD. I mean, dealing 4 damage while healing 4 from yourself is ok, preventing statuses is good and the type coverage is awesome(Lightning, Water, and Psy), but the pokes are too fragile in this big basic format to handle things that arent Accelgor, vVv, GroudonEX or Tyram consistently.

I do hope you're just being extra-sarcastic. I was entirely joking.

[tinox6]

Let's just be real, at this point, there is SUCH a crazed fear of playing a status deck, that most people ARE going to be teching for something that doesn't even comprise 5% of the top cut statistics (as far as battle roads are concerned), and something that couldn't even make it out of the first round of the top cut in the French nationals, so let's all just admit that playing a status lock deck at this point is a really really bad decision.

[DonphanAtoZ]

It's still worth teching for something that's x-0'd multiple nationals.

[Charranitar]

Originally Posted by DonphanAtoZ

It's still worth teching for something that's x-0'd multiple nationals.

Wouldn't it be better worth your time to tech for Darkrai, something that's dominated our Battle Roads and most of the international National Championships (actually being the winning deck of that French tournament that created the wide spread ice cream panic.)

I don't think Vanilluxe is a threat to win the tournament at all. Accelgor is solid, but it's going to be played in such small numbers and it's a Vileplume deck, so it has a good chance of just not performing for one match in the tournament getting that player knocked out, and it also has major time issues.

Why tech for 2% of the field and not tech for something that's going to be 30% of the field?

[InnoceNt]

I think it's going to be more than 2% of the field, not to mention you'll see a lot of them at the higher tables.

[Pikajew1213]

My guess is as good as any other there are gonna be those people that play status condition people wanna have a truth feel by playing a deck that's out there and doing well I think there will be like 50 status/Acelgor decks total in seniors maybe more in masters but the truth is we won't know until thursday

[Raen]

http://www.thedeckout.com/2012/06/wi...agame-pre.html

Well, it's official. Both Pooka and Esa think Vanilluxe is really good.

Expect lots of VVV, and LOTS of Espeon this weekend. Should be. . . "fun".

[King Piplup]

Originally Posted by Raen

http://www.thedeckout.com/2012/06/wi...agame-pre.html

Well, it's official. Both Pooka and Esa think Vanilluxe is really good.

Expect lots of VVV, and LOTS of Espeon this weekend. Should be. . . "fun".

It's official. Yet another good reason to play Espeon. VVV is gaining hype from passing second. Hence why people will play Espeon. Therefore, VVV is a terrible play.

[WarpPointJordan]

imo articles like this should only end up dissuading people from playing vvv. it encourages people to play espeon or cure. I think people showing up to nats with a status lock deck are going to be in for a rude awakening when they realize they have been out teched.

[kirbyking]

Or be more consistent and play unknown cure and seeker.........
I probably won't play either

[dialga master]

Seeker ruins RR.
I think Cyrus said that somewhere.

[Pikajew1213]

also unown cure only works if you can one hit it and you would have to use it multiple times so no espeon is better plus you can get it back with super rod

[HerpTheDerp]

I'm still inclined to just pass this off as hype. I really can't see that many people playing status lock/item lock decks at a premier event like Nationals. Most of the Established Tier 1 decks can handle them with minimal, if any at all (in most cases), techs. Hence why you don't see them winning the battle roads and regionals. I would personally just not run Espeon as it messes with your consistency no matter how you look at it. If you do happen to run into a status/item lock, smart planning and plays will still make you come out on top of it. And if you do lose to one I would think you would only run into one so you may even top cut still. The more you try to tech against this, IMO over-hyped threat, the more you are giving actual threats like Darkrai/ZekEel advantages. Just my 2 cents.

[WarpPointJordan]

a 1-1 espeon does not hurt your consistency. it's two cards and Eevee is as good of a starter as you could hope for in this format.

[HerpTheDerp]

Originally Posted by WarpPointJordan

a 1-1 espeon does not hurt your consistency. it's two cards and Eevee is as good of a starter as you could hope for in this format.

I would have a hard time finding two slots in my Darkrai deck and 1-1 in a deck that does not use cards to search for pokes, save for ultra ball, it would be rather useless to me. Considering how many games would be played at Nationals, 1-1 is not a consistent line-up as the more games you play the more chances you have to not be able to use it. It would be very rare for it to be prized the one or two times you play against a deck you'd would need it, I know but It's just not something I would chance on. Which brings us to the point where we try to make this tech consistent. Naturally you would add more to the line-up which then affects the consistency of your main strategies in your deck exponentially the more you add. And in this deck it's not something you would want to be discarding if you didn't need it, as it would mess with dark patch, JA, and Sableye. And furthermore in a lot of Darkrai decks you would rather start with sableye (at least I would).

[Pikajew1213]

who bets herpthederp is playing status lock?

[HerpTheDerp]

Originally Posted by Pikajew1213

who bets herpthederp is playing status lock?

This is another statement that I am seeing being said a lot, that is just showing a lot of ignorance by the player-base as a whole. It's getting to the point where no one is considering what the argument is putting forth and just passing it off as "Oh so-and-so just doesn't want people to play such-and-such so they can play such-and-such." Not only is it a poor thought it just has no merit to the argument as a whole. I do not feel that lock decks need to be teched against. If I can make it to Nationals I would be playing Darkrai, not that I even need to justify my comments, and I feel I DO NOT NEED TO TECH AGAINST IT. That is why I am saying Espeon is not worth it. And the funny thing about it is this has been so over-hyped, that if ANY deck wins with espeon in it's line-up the player-base will mark that off as it won BECAUSE it had Espeon in it, whether or not it was in fact needed or even used AT ALL in the entire tournament.

[Pikajew1213]

^bro i was just trolling you

[EliGagerNorris]

Guys, just let these Espeon people play it and lose to more consistent mirror matches.

[Charranitar]

Originally Posted by WarpPointJordan

a 1-1 espeon does not hurt your consistency. it's two cards and Eevee is as good of a starter as you could hope for in this format.

Eevee is a bad starter. It's easily donked by Mewtwo EX and Tornadus EX.

[Pikajew1213]

^but so do alot of things
also they would need a pluspower to t1 it

[Raen]

Eevee isn't that bad of a starter. It knows Call for Family. Nothing that knows call for family is that bad of a starter.

In fact, it's a much better starter than Shaymin, or even Mewtwo EX.

[kirbyking]

Even a little tweak in consistencey can really affect you. Trust me. Example- I played 9 supporters and 2 random recievers, which is WAY different than 10 supporters and 2 random recievers. It's the difference between a bad start and a good one. Espeon is probably better in Zekeels than in Darkrai, but that is just my opinion.

[honchvire]

I wasn't ENTIRELY joking. Secret decks need to be seekeret to be effective.

Espeon might be more than a 2 spot in your deck. Ive seen some bad lists that include espeon, but no way of searching it out. Make sure your list has Ultra Ball, Level Ball, Professor Elms, or Pokemon Communication if it doesn't already. If you have to make changes to your T/S/S line too, you might want to make sure that the difference Espeon makes doesn't muck things up further.

Also: Espeon confuses new players who don't understand what "Effects from an attack" mean. Anyone who was around for Unown G should know the basic rulings, but I bet nats will have plenty of judges being asked: Does Espeon prevent Bench Damage from Darkrai? Does Espeon stop PlusPower from adding damage? Does Espeon stop Call for Family since it doesn't do any damage? Does Espeon protect my Benched pokemon without energy from being switched to the active by Carnivine if my active Pokemon has energy?
Answer to these questions: No.

[cabd]

There's an article in the site in my sig where we took Espeon rulings and broke them down situation b situation. that I hope anyone playing espeon will have read, if they were not around for the unown G rulings.

As far as teching it, I have mixed feelings.