New Ruling needed (or not): E-Birds and Rainbow/Multi/Crystal Energy

dkates · 10/09/2003, 04:38 PM

It has been previously ruled that the Poke-Bodies Anti-Fire, Anti-Lightning, and Water Immunity do not allow a player to attach Rainbow, Crystal, or Multi Energy to those Pokemon from the hand. I believe this ruling is in error.
Take, for example, the ruling on Blastoise's Rain Dance Power and Rainbow Energy. Rainbow Energy cannot be Rain Danced onto a Pokemon because it is not yet a Water Energy while it is in the hand. There are other rulings with similar reasonings, such as the one concerning Neo: Discovery Eevee.
Why, then, can these birds not have these Special Energy cards attached to them? If they are not Energy cards of that color while in the hand, as has been ruled, then they should bypass these Powers.
[EDIT] Disregard the above. There is no such ruling -- I was mistaken.

Porygon3 · 10/09/2003, 06:11 PM

i dont belive that rulling was ever in place, as when specal engery is in your hand it provides no type, its only when its in play that it provides those types. however i recall rainbow engery and engery evo eevee rulling alowing to search for ANY evolve of eevee if you put that rainbow on it, I belive this was due to the way the power was worded. as for the Purebody Powers I see no reasion that you could not attach specal engery to it from your hand as its not providing the stated engery untill it is in play. If somehow you shut off the power it would be easyer to play these birds, look for Muk EX to do just that in the next set.

***PokePop*** · 10/09/2003, 07:10 PM

Care to quote the source of that ruling?
I don't recall it.

dkates · 10/09/2003, 07:21 PM

I seem to remember seeing such a ruling in the Compendium.

[EDIT] Oops. No such ruling. However, this ruling, on a similar situation, is unclear:

Q. Since Rainbow Energy counts as all types while being attached (allowing Energy Evolution Eevee to use its power) would it also count for Aquapolis Entei's Pure Body?
A. Yes. (Jun 19, 2003 WotC Chat, Q2008)

Does this mean that Rainbow Energy activates that Power, and an Energy card must be discarded?

*yoshi1001* · 10/09/2003, 07:35 PM

From the compendium:

"Q. Can you Rain Dance Rainbow Energy?
A. No. Because it does not count as any type while in your hand. (June 22, 2000 WotC Chat, Q247)"

There are no rulings on the birds.

SteveP · 10/10/2003, 12:31 AM

Both Crystal and Multi Energy have the colorless symbol on them, so obviously, that's okay to use them on the e-card legendary birds. But Rainbow has a different symbol.

A better question would be, are Crystal and Multi Energy cards considered to be colorless energy cards while in-play, even though them might be providing non-colorless energies? For example, what happens when your opponent removes Crystal and/or Mulit Energy from your Pokemon while EcoGym is in-play?

**BJJ763** · 10/10/2003, 04:51 AM

Depends upon what the Crystal or Multi Energy card was providing it was removed. If they were providing something other than Colorless energy, they'd be returned by Ecogym. If they provided C energy, they get Discarded. If an energy card provides X-type energy, it gets treated as an X-type energy card.

Otaku · 10/10/2003, 10:09 AM

Quote:

== PURE BODY (Entei - Aquapolis Expansion)

Q. Since Rainbow Energy counts as all types while being attached (allowing Energy Evolution Eevee to use its power) would it also count for Aquapolis Entei's Pure Body?
A. Yes. (Jun 19, 2003 WotC Chat, Q2008)

As was mentioned, that is the ruling on the e-dogs. Thisruling is one that more and more people, including myself, hold as being in error. When one actually reads the cards (as opposed to assuming what they say). What to I mean? Entei's Pure Body reads:

Quote:

To attach a (R) Energy card from your hand to Entei, you must discard an Energy card attached to Entei. (Attach the (R) Energy, and then discard an Energy from Entei.)

Now look a Moltres:

Quote:

You can't attach (R) Energy cards from your hand to Moltres.

Both talk about attaching (R) Energy from your hand to the Pokemon. Now, the ruling on Entei refers to Neo Discovery Eevee. It's Pokemon Power states:

Quote:

Whenever you attach an Energy card to Eevee, flip a coin. If heads, search your deck for a card that evolves from Eevee that is the same type as the Energy card you attached to Eevee. Attach that card to Eevee. This counts as evolving Eevee. Shuffle your deck afterward. This power can't be used if Eevee is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed.

Eevee's Power triggers at the point of attachment, while Entei and Moltres's Poke-Body trigger when you attempt to attach an from your hand to them... meaning before they actually attach. So, either the Entei ruling is bad (which I believe it is), or Moltres can't use Rainbow, Multi Energy, or Crystal Energy (if you have already managed to attach a Basic Fire Energy card).

Porygon3 · 10/10/2003, 10:54 AM

this reminds me of the porygon2 rulling ...

***PokePop*** · 10/10/2003, 10:57 AM

I agree that that Entei ruling seems wrong.
I think we'll ask about it at the next rules meeting. We'd prefer to use a R/S card as the template though. Any suggestions for that?

dkates · 10/10/2003, 11:04 AM

I posted the question in "Ask the Master Trainers." BTW, that makes the second time I've reposted a question that was already posted there. The only R/S cards I can think of that you can use for reasoning are Holo Swampert and Sandstorm Azumarill, since they each attach a certain type of Energy card to one of your Pokemon from the hand. As far as rulings to reference, I mentioned two in the top post -- Discovery Eevee and Base Blastoise.

NoPoke · 10/10/2003, 04:47 PM

So the rulings question becomes 'when does the text on a special energy card become effective"?

After successfull attachment or during the process of being attactched? Or is the answer that the text is activated when ever it becomes important to resolve the type of energy?

*Orange Soda* · 10/10/2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoPoke

So the rulings question becomes 'when does the text on a special energy card become effective"?

After successfull attachment or during the process of being attactched? Or is the answer that the text is activated when ever it becomes important to resolve the type of energy?

I'd say the latter. For instance, Light Dragonite with Boost Energy.

NoPoke · 10/10/2003, 05:13 PM

Well if it is the later (ie the third option) then you cannot attach a Multi-energy card to Aq suicune since its poke body would query the energy type written on the card.

The distinctionthat I and others are seeking clarification on is similar to the in play vs comming into play powers that Muk was unable to shut down.

10/09/2003, 07:35 PM	#5
yoshi1001 Images: 8	From the compendium: "Q. Can you Rain Dance Rainbow Energy? A. No. Because it does not count as any type while in your hand. (June 22, 2000 WotC Chat, Q247)" There are no rulings on the birds. __________________ Listen to PIRN! The Pokemon Internet Radio Network. We have tons of Pokemon Music, along with interviews with major players in the Pokemon world. Now in CD quality! Latest Song Parody: Dewott You Do League Leader-Pegasus Games-Madison, WI

10/10/2003, 04:51 AM	#7
BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Images: 2	Depends upon what the Crystal or Multi Energy card was providing it was removed. If they were providing something other than Colorless energy, they'd be returned by Ecogym. If they provided C energy, they get Discarded. If an energy card provides X-type energy, it gets treated as an X-type energy card. __________________ The Compendium "We are not purposely trying to mess with your minds." - DMTM Indentifier of the Magby Rule. Diamond & Pearl H/W You'd be crazy not to attend the New England Regional Championship.

10/10/2003, 04:47 PM	#12
NoPoke Images: 6	So the rulings question becomes 'when does the text on a special energy card become effective"? After successfull attachment or during the process of being attactched? Or is the answer that the text is activated when ever it becomes important to resolve the type of energy? __________________ Click for a graph of the number of X-2s or better against attendance One of the Dinosaurs.

10/10/2003, 05:13 PM	#14
NoPoke Images: 6	Well if it is the later (ie the third option) then you cannot attach a Multi-energy card to Aq suicune since its poke body would query the energy type written on the card. The distinctionthat I and others are seeking clarification on is similar to the in play vs comming into play powers that Muk was unable to shut down. __________________ Click for a graph of the number of X-2s or better against attendance One of the Dinosaurs.

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10/09/2003, 04:38 PM	#1
dkates	New Ruling needed (or not): E-Birds and Rainbow/Multi/Crystal Energy It has been previously ruled that the Poke-Bodies Anti-Fire, Anti-Lightning, and Water Immunity do not allow a player to attach Rainbow, Crystal, or Multi Energy to those Pokemon from the hand. I believe this ruling is in error. Take, for example, the ruling on Blastoise's Rain Dance Power and Rainbow Energy. Rainbow Energy cannot be Rain Danced onto a Pokemon because it is not yet a Water Energy while it is in the hand. There are other rulings with similar reasonings, such as the one concerning Neo: Discovery Eevee. Why, then, can these birds not have these Special Energy cards attached to them? If they are not Energy cards of that color while in the hand, as has been ruled, then they should bypass these Powers. [EDIT] Disregard the above. There is no such ruling -- I was mistaken. __________________ Every time I think I can't say anything stupider, I prove myself wrong. Maybe I should just stop thinking. There's an exception to every rule, except this one. This one has two. Last edited by dkates; 10/09/2003 at 07:52 PM.

10/09/2003, 06:11 PM	#2
Porygon3	i dont belive that rulling was ever in place, as when specal engery is in your hand it provides no type, its only when its in play that it provides those types. however i recall rainbow engery and engery evo eevee rulling alowing to search for ANY evolve of eevee if you put that rainbow on it, I belive this was due to the way the power was worded. as for the Purebody Powers I see no reasion that you could not attach specal engery to it from your hand as its not providing the stated engery untill it is in play. If somehow you shut off the power it would be easyer to play these birds, look for Muk EX to do just that in the next set. __________________ I own 24 or so Erica cards. I'm nearly done with every set, execpt the last E serires is a pain, and I dont think I'll EVER finnish the reverse foils... "I don't know, seemed like a good idea at the time..." "Nothing is inpossible!!"

10/09/2003, 07:10 PM	#3
*PokePop* Administrator Images: 1073	Care to quote the source of that ruling? I don't recall it.

10/09/2003, 07:21 PM	#4
dkates	I seem to remember seeing such a ruling in the Compendium. [EDIT] Oops. No such ruling. However, this ruling, on a similar situation, is unclear: Q. Since Rainbow Energy counts as all types while being attached (allowing Energy Evolution Eevee to use its power) would it also count for Aquapolis Entei's Pure Body? A. Yes. (Jun 19, 2003 WotC Chat, Q2008) Does this mean that Rainbow Energy activates that Power, and an Energy card must be discarded? __________________ Every time I think I can't say anything stupider, I prove myself wrong. Maybe I should just stop thinking. There's an exception to every rule, except this one. This one has two. Last edited by dkates; 10/09/2003 at 07:32 PM.

10/10/2003, 12:31 AM	#6
SteveP Images: 31	Both Crystal and Multi Energy have the colorless symbol on them, so obviously, that's okay to use them on the e-card legendary birds. But Rainbow has a different symbol. A better question would be, are Crystal and Multi Energy cards considered to be colorless energy cards while in-play, even though them might be providing non-colorless energies? For example, what happens when your opponent removes Crystal and/or Mulit Energy from your Pokemon while EcoGym is in-play?

10/10/2003, 10:54 AM	#9
Porygon3	this reminds me of the porygon2 rulling ... __________________ I own 24 or so Erica cards. I'm nearly done with every set, execpt the last E serires is a pain, and I dont think I'll EVER finnish the reverse foils... "I don't know, seemed like a good idea at the time..." "Nothing is inpossible!!"

10/10/2003, 10:57 AM	#10
*PokePop* Administrator Images: 1073	I agree that that Entei ruling seems wrong. I think we'll ask about it at the next rules meeting. We'd prefer to use a R/S card as the template though. Any suggestions for that?

10/10/2003, 11:04 AM	#11
dkates	I posted the question in "Ask the Master Trainers." BTW, that makes the second time I've reposted a question that was already posted there. The only R/S cards I can think of that you can use for reasoning are Holo Swampert and Sandstorm Azumarill, since they each attach a certain type of Energy card to one of your Pokemon from the hand. As far as rulings to reference, I mentioned two in the top post -- Discovery Eevee and Base Blastoise. __________________ Every time I think I can't say anything stupider, I prove myself wrong. Maybe I should just stop thinking. There's an exception to every rule, except this one. This one has two.