Hmmm... Thoughts on Poliwrath?

[Pokemaster1110]

Okay, on Apprentice I threw together a Poliwrath deck very quickly for fun and it actually won! I was shocked at just how great the Poliwrath did! I am speaking of the UF one, of course. But in real life, Poliwrath needs a stratagy, a combo or something. Any thoughts on how to use Poliwrath and with what?

[Kevin89]

hmm, politoed ex?

[BLiZzArD]

surpise TM and politoed ex

BLiZz

[Zapditto]

I've been playing a T2 Poliwrath deck with Whiscash for a few days now...It seems to work fairly well, however I know there are better combos out there...I am just playing this for fun though, and don't plan on using it too much. I also suggest putting in 1-2 Poliwrath from FR/LG as well since it works very well against a deck that relys on ex Pokemon.

[TacC]

I don't know that you need Whiscash cause you can S!TM between Water and Fighting Poliwrath to attack your opponents' weakness and cover your own. Maybe a 4-4-2-2-2 line would work, hard to say without playtesting. I know WPM is using Blastoise to power up Politoed ex quickly so that's a thought. Perhaps Ariados to hit for an easy 40 when Poliwrath gets KOd and attack yet another weakness. You could easily run 3 types right there pretty easily and still have room for Pidgeot or Magcargo for efficiency.

[Prime]

FRLG Poliwrath? Why? It can do a HUGE 20 to a pokemon. And against rock-lock, nidoqueen, and ludicargo, it does a max of 60 damage. Wow, that's alot /sarcasm. I'd stick with Politoed EX, 50 to any stage 2 for 2 energy is insane, and being able to hit and bounce back for a plusle or something stupid against a deck like zapdos/etc that have to discard to KO, is just fantastic.

[Zapditto]

Well, if you are up against a deck that uses ex's, then 70/80 damage (depending on if you used DRE) plus 10 in between turns with Desert Ruins is a lot better than what the UF Poliwrath could do in that situation...however, I do feel that the UF Poliwrath is much better overall and should be used as the majority...but I still do think that the FRLG Poliwrath can be better in certain situations. It also depends on the strategy of the deck as well. However, I do understand the point you are trying to make though, and it is a valid point. Just forget I said anything.

[TacC]

Originally Posted by Prime

FRLG Poliwrath? Why? It can do a HUGE 20 to a pokemon. And against rock-lock, nidoqueen, and ludicargo, it does a max of 60 damage. Wow, that's alot /sarcasm. I'd stick with Politoed EX, 50 to any stage 2 for 2 energy is insane, and being able to hit and bounce back for a plusle or something stupid against a deck like zapdos/etc that have to discard to KO, is just fantastic.

I spose so but Poliwrath does 50 whether the Poke is Stage 2 or Basic, and it only costs 1 more energy so its not a huge difference, especially when you consider that Scramble and DRE can be used. It can't hit the bench and Punch and Run is nice so I'd say its almost a tie at that point. Politoed ex's last attack is terrible in my eyes. If the defending Pokemon has less HP than Politoed ex, you shouldn't need the extra 50 damage and I just don't see it helping you out often enough. With 2 fresh Pokes, sure Politoed ex would own but by the time you attach 3-4 energy, I gurantee you won't have a Politoed ex at full health. If we assume best case scenarios for both Poliwrath and Politoed ex, its 80 damage v. 120 damage. The extra 40 comes at the price of 1 prize card, which I am not willing to give up. I like the extra HP and ability to hit and run but I think as a deck, its best to have both for balance. If you played Poliwrath and Politoed ex as basics in 1-on-1, whoever goes first gets the KO, with Poliwrath having a 50% of winning even going 2nd, so I'd say its even. Poliwrath is extremely underrated and deserves some play before the next rotation.

'wrath: 20+Confuse
'toed: 50
'wrath: 80
'toed: 50
'wrath: 80, KO
In this scenario, Politoed ex has a 25% chance of KOing itself but I left out confusion because its irrelevant, Politoed ex dies regardless, though Punch and Run would be the saving grace and the battle would end with 'wrath dealing 100 damage and 'toed dealing 90.

'toed: 50
'wrath: 20+Confuse
'toed: 50
'wrath: 80
'toed: 120, KO

'toed: 50
'wrath: 20+Confuse
'toed: 30 to self
'wrath: 80
'toed: 70, KO

'toed: 50
'wrath: 20+Confuse
'toed: 50
'wrath: 80
'toed: 30 to self
'wrath: 80, KO

Obviously this is not the ideal way to compare the 2 and yes, Politoed ex is more versatile and has more power potential, but Poliwrath has its place. Rock Lock folds to Poliwrath due to confusion; trying to generate stones and hitting yourself for 30 is devastating. If LudiCargo doesn't have a draw card in hand or a benched Ludicolo, confusion brings it to a halt as well. I'm rambling but I think you see my point.

[Prime]

Of course Poliwrath does more damage overall when facing Politoed EX. That's not even a good comparison. What about when they aren't facing each other and are facing non-ex's. Ludicargo is just big, Rock-lock is still big (or atleast the pure dark version), Nidoqueen is just getting popular, and the story goes on.

[Zapditto]

I agree with Prime, more and more decks are becoming less dependant on ex Pokemon..I finally got around to doing some more playtesting with Poliwrath and I find myself rarely using the FRLG Poliwrath. The fact that the UF Poliwrath is fighting seems to be an advantage as well (especially with ZRE and whatnot rapidly gaining popularity). Hopefully Delta Species will have something that will go good with Poliwrath. Right now I can't seem to find any good combos with it. As for now, I think it is best just to use Politoed ex as others have mentioned.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I suppose curse powder, although it's hardly a combo... Just adding to the opponent's problems when they KO something, and it doesn't necessarily have to be attached to poliwrath either.

[Pokemaster1110]

Ok I should put it this way: I have no politoad EX and I'm broke and no one wants to trade one off

So, ASIDE from Politoad EX, what do we have? I saw both Cursed Powder and Ariados, and I think this is a good idea together. Let's even assume, worst-case, Poliwrath didn't even do any damage.

KO Poliwrath = Confused + Curse Powder = 30 and ocnfused + Ariados = 70 and confused by the end of the turn. Not bad and Ariados hurts both Dark T-Tar and Queen.

Although some may disagree, Poliwrath from FRLG is a great card, even if it dosn't hurt the current Metagame so much, and I would probably run one in there just for a bit of Tech, since Typhlosion seems to be getting popular, and Moltres has always been popular as well.

Hmmm...

Keep the ideas coming!

[ZAKtheGeek]

I personally would shake the confusion condition one way or another, if at all possible. What I'm saying is, don't rely on ariados doing that damage.

[Charizard1987]

i would prefer 4-4-2poliwrath RG-1poliwrath UF and 2 politoed ex..poliwrath UF is nice to counter lighting and it works well with curse podwer while poliwrath RG is nice for stalling since it can confuse opponent and prevents defending pokemon from retreating, but also can be a nice attacker if opponent flips tails when he attacks

[TacC]

Originally Posted by Zapditto

I agree with Prime, more and more decks are becoming less dependant on ex Pokemon... The fact that the UF Poliwrath is fighting seems to be an advantage as well (especially with ZRE and whatnot rapidly gaining popularity).

Those 2 sentences are contradictory but I guess I see what you're saying. It should be noted that you'll be hard-pressed to kill Electrode ex, most likely your opponent will kill it for you, add to that the fact that Rayquaza ex is Resistant to Fighting and Poliwrath UF becomes useless. Anyhow... Scizor ex will be the deck to beat until DS comes out and possibly after its release. LudiCargo folds to Scizor ex, I won't even get into that slaughter. Rock Lock loses as well. Nidoqueen has to drop Milotic after Scizor uses its first attack or its a consistant 2HKO with 20-60 damage reduction. Quick Search, Island Cave: Toxic does nothing. Arcanine ex will counter Scizor ex, Mew ex will just own everything and we already established that ZRE is all ex. ex Pokemon should be less popular but that will depend on how these Pokes in Delta Species work. Unless they're God-like I don't see ex leaving the format (though people should stray away).

I really don't care one way or another about the deck, I'm not building it, but I still say FRLG Poliwrath has its place in the deck. I'm not arguing against Politoed ex either, it should be noted I recommended a 2-2-2 line. Best of luck with the deck.

[Zapditto]

You are right, they were kinda contradicting themselves. I have a sort of mixed opinion of Poliwrath. Anyway, as of right now, I don't see Poliwrath doing too well. Mostly because there isn't really anything to go with it, and a deck with Poliwrath/Politoed ex alone will fail. Maybe Delta Species will give us some good cards to put with Poliwrath. But as of now, I just don't really see it working too well unless someone finds a good combo for it that was overlooked, which I doubt. To sum it all up, Poliwrath is a good card, but for right now, there is just not enough that goes with it to make a deck with it. I did a little playtesting with my Poliwrath deck (which has Whiscash in it as well, I know, not the greatest idea, but I couldn't think of anything else when I made the deck and I needed more Pokemon in the deck) and it is doing alright, but there is just this part of it that is missing (a good combo). The only archetype I played this deck against was a Ludicargo with Lanturn as tech. Lanturn was easily beaten because of it's weakness to fighting, Magcargo was beaten due to it's weakness to water, and Ludicolo didn't help too much because the UF Poliwrath does 90 to it since it is stage 2. Against the other rogue decks, it won a few battles and lost a few battles which just doesn't cut it. And we already know that most other archetypes will easily beat it.

Originally Posted by TacC

Those 2 sentences are contradictory but I guess I see what you're saying. It should be noted that you'll be hard-pressed to kill Electrode ex, most likely your opponent will kill it for you, add to that the fact that Rayquaza ex is Resistant to Fighting and Poliwrath UF becomes useless. Anyhow... Scizor ex will be the deck to beat until DS comes out and possibly after its release. LudiCargo folds to Scizor ex, I won't even get into that slaughter. Rock Lock loses as well. Nidoqueen has to drop Milotic after Scizor uses its first attack or its a consistant 2HKO with 20-60 damage reduction. Quick Search, Island Cave: Toxic does nothing. Arcanine ex will counter Scizor ex, Mew ex will just own everything and we already established that ZRE is all ex. ex Pokemon should be less popular but that will depend on how these Pokes in Delta Species work. Unless they're God-like I don't see ex leaving the format (though people should stray away).

I really don't care one way or another about the deck, I'm not building it, but I still say FRLG Poliwrath has its place in the deck. I'm not arguing against Politoed ex either, it should be noted I recommended a 2-2-2 line. Best of luck with the deck.

[ZAKtheGeek]

LudiCargo folds to Scizor ex

Ludicargo with HL ninetales tech doesn't have to. ^_^

[Prime]

And obviously, the auto-loss statements directed towards the new format mean nothing. I doubt any of the tests against ludicargo have included the new magcargo, which can OHKO scizor ex pretty easily for a scramble, heck, dx magcargo can with a strength charm and scramble and with scizor taking the first prize, that might not be that hard. Anyways, I'm not here to talk format win/lose matchups.

You could always try playing fluffy berry with the deck and some milotic.

[Ash_Van_Je]

Working on it recently. Probably Crobat ex + Politoed will be another Rock Lock.