Outside the US - part 2

[Michel]

With reference to the other 'Outside the US' topic, I want to thank you Dave for your clear answer to my last subject.

I don't know if you, or Sensei, put me in the people who have defamed anybody in the previous topic. If you, Jarrod or anybody else have taken my posts as personal attack, lack of respect or diffamation, I want to apologize for it, it was clearly not my intention.

Sensei is right when he says that your presence on these boards is very important for the community.
I think too that a difference has to be made between 'global interest' questions or reactions and personal subjects.
If the second are better discussed by mail, the first subjects do interess different people on these boards, and your answers are always very helpful to the community.

[Sensei]

No worries Michel,you were not in question.Thanx for restarting a new thread so the overseas problems can get discussed and hopefully resolved via the correct channels(a reminder to all that if you have a problem or a direct question,e-mail it to Dave).

Again to everyone,let`s respect each and every person and have a good discussion.

`Sensei

[Marcello-Milord]

I'll skip the issue that has born during the last part of the previous topic, but I want to apologize from my side to Dave and all PUI reps. for this issue. Ben and the others surely don't want to defamate you, but sometimes that topic used to be not so kind talking about PUI... I hope you want to come back and restart a dialogue with us, it's really important for all of us.

Then I want to restart a discussion (quoting Sensei), and make a little update about Italy. I received an email from Nexus today... They are ready for OP finally!
Next week I'll talk with the POP manager for Italy, according for the Milan tournament in december.
They have a good prize support (a collector's tin too!!!), and they'll talk with Jarrod for some materials such as arenas (though I have a lot of Wizards' ones), and so on.
They hope for sanctioning the event, which may be possible if OP starts in Dec, 1st.

Hoping that when I come back from London (sunday... but I'll keep reading the Pokégym) everyone looks back and thinks about what they said... :)

[ukpokemonpro]

Just telling it like it is gets a topic locked and Dave takes a real adult view and runs away again?

Sheesh I guess it is true that freedom of speech and opinion is dead ... does nobody read what is actually posted rather than the spin?

Dave implied that if we stopped complaining and actually asked those running the game in the UK they had league kits already .. I pointed out they got them in their office the day before ... so what my dear friends and enemies alike would have been the point?

Dave rants at NoPoke for not emailing when he had in fact done so already... and as seems the way of the PUI not gotten a response.

So now we have a really classic piece of theatre I will not post again here ... Erm didn't Dave say that before somewhere? And everyone jumps on the bad guy .. that's me folks!

But still we have the situation where there is no recognition for the Professors or TOs outside the US there are no Official Leagues there are no Official Tournaments and yet you all buy the lies because they are said by an official source?

And once again on this unofficial board a moderator steps in an claims defamation and locks the post... excuse me for speaking as I find.

I don't get paid to come here and be called a liar, a spin doctor or any of the other names and implicatons that you and others here have used and continue to use now. I get paid to develop our league programs, professor program, and if you don't think I'm doing a good enough job of this, I recommend you contact my employer and complain. Again, my full name is Dave Schwimmer, so you can let them know just who the person you think has been lying to you is.

You want to tell us who that boss is Dave so we know where to address the letters, emails and phone calls?

You demand respect from us, yet, we've never worked with you. You earn respect Ben, it isn't freely given or you'd have given us the same respect you feel you're due since you've NEVER worked with us either.

And yet 4 years of TOing and keeping a league alive running the biggest Tourneys in the UK and generally ensuring there is some OP here are not respected? I have spoken to you on the phoine, I have emailed and all we get are the same stock answers and no action..

Am I mad you bet I am, as I have said before and I will say it again ... we have offered to work with you and you have turned away, we have raise questions and you do not answer them, we have raised our concerns and they go ignored. It looks like you don't care, it feels like you don't care well guess what I THINK YOU DON'T CARE.

[Marcello-Milord]

Ben,
Dave only complained about the fact that you implied in your posts that he was a liar.

We all know that it was not your nor NoPoke's intention to say that, but he understood that and he took his luggages from Pokégym.
There's only a big big misunderstading, which may be resolved easily, if YOU (you UK guys, and you Dave/PUI) want to.
Who thinks PUI or UK guys are a liar? Anyone I think.
Sure, we have no support for now.
OP starts December 1st. Actually the worst issues are outside UK and Italy, I see. The only thing we can do is keep on a discussion with PUI and hope to be informed about the evolutions of this issue.
Please let this dialogue continue, without accusations or firings!

[pokeprofRaymond]

Originally Posted by Marcello-Milord

Ben,
Dave only complained about the fact that you implied in your posts that he was a liar.

We all know that it was not your nor NoPoke's intention to say that, but he understood that and he took his luggages from Pokégym.
There's only a big big misunderstading, which may be resolved easily, if YOU (you UK guys, and you Dave/PUI) want to.
Who thinks PUI or UK guys are a liar? Anyone I think.
Sure, we have no support for now.
OP starts December 1st. Actually the worst issues are outside UK and Italy, I see. The only thing we can do is keep on a discussion with PUI and hope to be informed about the evolutions of this issue.
Please let this dialogue continue, without accusations or firings!

I was very quiet when the previous thread related to this was closed. But being a player of the East has its different views on the game. Season one for this part of the world will begin on Saturday and some side tournaments will happen now and then. If I have ever had complaints, my local distributor never fail to answer and respond (well alomst :p, but never gave a great impact ). What I'm trying to say that we followed (or got used to)a hierarchy if we ask for a question, where in all concerns were addressed by our local distributor before going to be addressed to someone else. I only hope this becomes consistent after such time.

Oh BTW... as a professional myself everything that should be expressed to a fellow person should be in a professional argument and can be resolved like mature adults and professionals in our own right. :)

[ukpokemonpro]

We all know that it was not your nor NoPoke's intention to say that, but he understood that and he took his luggages from Pokégym.

As he has done before and a very adult response that is too, Dave has my email, he has my telephone number anytime he wants to take this off-line for a clearing the air session he can do.

There's only a big big misunderstading, which may be resolved easily, if YOU (you UK guys, and you Dave/PUI) want to.

What misunderstanding Marcello? He says one thing and we say another. We believe that what we are told is true.. that League kits only arrived at the Offices of the Place for Games on Tuesday. It is pure Spin to imply that had we been in contact with them we would have the league kits now... because that was clearly impossible!

Who thinks PUI or UK guys are a liar? Anyone I think. Sure, we have no support for now. OP starts December 1st. Actually the worst issues are outside UK and Italy, I see. The only thing we can do is keep on a discussion with PUI and hope to be informed about the evolutions of this issue.

But that is the whole point what preparation is there for then? Where are our league listings, where is the TO approval, were is the reporting software? How do we run a league on fresh air?

These are alll things that can be done before the league kits and promo's arrive but they have not been actioned!

And what discussions with PUI? Pui have made it plain they don't want to talk to us we get directed to the Distributors or in the UK the Place for Games yet they cannot answer some of the queries. Emails do go unanswered and we are being fed spin.

Please let this dialogue continue, without accusations or firings!

What dialogue? The one where we point out the problems and they get ignored?

Who's gonna get fired? Dave is a consumate politician and I am sure any complaints will be either ignored or blustered over..

I will not apologise for speaking my opinion which is that PUI are showing the Professors and TOs outside the US that they do not care. If Dave would care to enter a discussion off-line by Phone/Email or on Aim he can.. I have tried and got nowhere so the ball is in his court.

Please note that none of the direct questions I have asked recieved an answer and that nothing has changed... Except PUI just lost another load of my goodwill and effort towards promoting this game.

[Michel]

I've started this topic hoping it would be a peaceful one

Ben, of course I may understand your concern, and I'm sure you know that, IMO, if someone has to be respected for all he has done for the game in Europe, it's YOU.
The only point is the way things are said. Even if you are right, I don't think that solutions will be found or that the train will reach the next station if the people involved are attacking each other.
We all talk about a passion, and sometimes the way we talk about it is passionate, but I don't think that anybody, or the community, will find an advantage in that.
People banned, people leaving the boards, ... will not help POP in Europe and will not help PUI's work.

I understand your frustration about the situation in the UK. But, at least, you have prereleases, contacts with your 'third party', ... while in Belgium the only people putting a word on the web about POP in the country is me ;)

Great news from Italy Marcello. Things are moving there, and like someone we all love would say 'keep up the great work !' :)

[NoPoke]

Can't find any post of mine where I accuse Dave or Jared of lying.

I did try to highlight that some of Daves posts look like spin. Since noone noticed and Dave's posts continued much the same I highlighted my concern about apparent hiding behind words. Also that the safest conclusion is that there is a communication problem. The last line on that post ws a wish for a future when all this unpleasantness will be behind us.

Good grief I even said that the most likely reason for why Europe was ignored was that the team at PUI is being measured against delivery of OP primarily within the USA. Though I might not like it I won't criticise someone for sticking to their job description.

As to my moaning about a lack of POP ID. Nope not me! I did start a thread to see if there were lots of us. But after starting it (this establised that I was not being victimised) it became apparent that Dave prefers individual emails. I have no problem with that. I was probably being slow in not picking up on Dave's preference for email communication, but I don't think I was alone in this misconception. BTW Dave I know that you have recieved my request as you said so but I have yet to recieve a reply at this end.

As always its all about delivery.

[Tahna]

Moving away from any open complaints at the office of mr.s Nack and Schwimmer, onto the order of the day.

For all those countries out there that have their Ex: Dragons Pre-release planned: This weekend will probably be the baptism of fire.
I'll be helping Lia and Henna in making the Aalsmeer Pre-release a good one. (deo volente, of course)
The distributor has put the upcoming locations for the other pre-releases on their site and fortunately they've changed the December 6th pre-release to a normal sealed deck tournament.
Oddly enough, I share Rainbowgym's concern on whether it is viable to run these pre-release tournaments, seeing as there are 4 locations, all spread throughout the Netherlands and an equal amount of grandfathered professors in the whole of the Netherlands. Now, if I am to believe that the rules posted on the pokemon-tcg website are correct, the TO for that event should provide appropriate staff for that event, such as at least a Head Judge, even if he/she is the only judge present at the tournament.
I haven't found any other prerequisites for these judges than the fact that they should be up to date with the latest rulings provided by PUI.
I wonder where they will find such people in the Netherlands as I am certain that only three of the existing Dutch professors (excluding me, for I believe that exams are more important to study for than to go half-way across the country for some tournament) could be available. Please not that this is not a question aimed at the people at IOP or PUI, but more as a conundrum for the forum-readers. What do you think and how is the situation for your country this weekend or any of the oncoming pre-release weekends?

[Michel]

What do you think and how is the situation for your country this weekend or any of the oncoming pre-release weekends?

I'm afraid it will be cold and rainy this week-end. After that, I don't really know

Pre-what ??? What are you talking about ?????

Never heard of that kind of things in Belgium !!!

[Rainbowgym]

Michel - that's why i forwarded you the details about our event.

We have place for you, but it takes a long ride to come over.
There are Curryworsten en Croc. Monsieur overhere so it will feel a bit like home.

And yes we are playing a PRE- WHAT???? No sign of the boosters yet.

[NoPoke]

since we are living in sensitive times I want to report that Dave has sent me my Prof ID.

:)

[Sensei]

I will say this only once and thats it.You want to reply to this post,then send it to me by e-mail.Whether you like "having a mod"(sorry but I`m one of the admins that also pay for this site out of my own pocket) but I have the right to lock a post if I feel there is a transgression in it.

Now,to the point of this thread,it is for discussion of the problems of overseas OP.It`s not for "I didn`t do this" or "I didn`t say that".Your choice of words were clearly taken negatively and even though you don`t see it,they were insulting at times.Not only to Dave,but you ripped apart Jarrod as soon as you found out that he will be handling the overseas stuff...before you even gave him a chance to produce!Don`t believe me?Go look in your posts to him.

As I stated above,this thread is for discussion of the overseas op problems.If you want to respond to this post,then e-mail it.If I see in any post from here on down anything that is not relevant to that(including but not limited to, "I didn`t do anything wrong",etc..),then I`ll lock this thread again and all subsequent topics on it.Furthermore,I`ll take away posting privileges.I and the other mods and admins are tired of a few people making a mockery of the rules and peoples character.If you can`t discuss things to get them resolved without resorting to putting words in peoples mouths and slamming them discreetly or indiscreetly,then there is no point in having a topic at all.

I truly hope things do get resolved and wish the best for overseas OP asap,but I and the other mods/admins will no longer tolerate verbal abuse in any shape or form to any member of the board whether it be a member,mod,admin,or MT.

`Sensei

[Michel]

I'd like to come Rainbowgym, but like you said it's quite far from my home, and your good food will not change that ;)

In addition to that, I'm invited to the opening of a YGO club on Sat and I run a YGO tournament on Sunday.
If there was a pre-release closer to Brussels, I would have certainly been there instead of going to YGO, but it will be for the next set.

Nice to see the pre-releases in Holland, and I wish all of you good luck and a lot of fun. ... same in the UK ;)

Keep cool Ben. We have a place to discuss about our game, and even if everything is not perfect, we must be happy to have the opportunity to keep in touch. BTW, everything has never been, and will never be perfect, and that's a good thing. Would be boring to post messages saying that everything's fine and that we have to invent problems to talk about :)
Hey guys, do you realize that UK is now #1 for POP in Europe ?

[)v(ajin_ipg21]

=/

Isn't THAT what I have been trying to say.

I HAVE no idea how NoPoke never realized that EMAILING was the best way to communicate with PUI *LOOK at my posts, but then THEY were mostly misunderstood except by Michel & UKP*

AND I think we have also been clear that this is an unofficial board. IT comes with the territory, more freedom and yet not. It's all a matter of Perspective.

AND I guess freddyK is an authority =/ Or I mean ;) yeah, he is... #21 no?
I have noticed a few absences, but then again that happens with any transition. BUT if there is a better board that fits your need so be it.

WE ARE SO FORTUNATE that we are somewhat acknowledged by PUI and we have had IMO healthy activity on this board. I am thrilled...

BUT WE WANT PEACE AND FORWARD thinking and as I have to admit have been weary of AGE old problems.

Problems we have no authority to improve.
AND for whatever reason, have not yet been acknowledged.

YOU ALL have done so much. Seems progress is happening.
BUT then I find it unfair that OUR CLOSEST neighbor *Mexico for ex* then has had even less support, BUT then again I have no details and want to know no details as to how the Pokemon economics are in Mexico or the TCG / CCG economics there.

Perhaps they WERE NOT VOCAL enough?
*BUT I believe that becomes a slippery slope.

IT was unbelievable how communicative the WotC MT's. AT times I thought they were TIPPING their hand WAY to often. WELL they went BUST =/

I am sure HISTORY is NOT going to repeat itself and our NEW PUI MT's will in NO WAY tip their hand... after all WE are not under management nor TPC's domain, the BUCK stops with them, all of their decisions final.

c-ya around...

poke-neo has had some AWESOME decks...

[NoPoke]

Well as I have oft said... Its all about delivery!

So I wish to express my heartfelt thanks to those at PUI/Nintendo/POP and The Place For Games for going the extra mile to ensure that product is available for tomorrows pre-release.

*good times*

I don't know all the names of the people involved in ensuring that the product got to Europe in time. But you know who you are. Thanks

[Sensei]

Originally Posted by NoPoke

Well as I have oft said... Its all about delivery!

So I wish to express my heartfelt thanks to those at PUI/Nintendo/POP and The Place For Games for going the extra mile to ensure that product is available for tomorrows pre-release.

*good times*

I don't know all the names of the people involved in ensuring that the product got to Europe in time. But you know who you are. Thanks

Excellent!Thats good to hear that you guys got the stuff in time!Hopefully,this is a step forward to easing the problems over there and getting things on track.Good luck in your tournament!

`Sensei

[Rainbowgym]

Sensei, no it's not.

I will run tomorrows event because I promised it to the kids.
But if it was only for adults I had cancelled it.
I'm not the kind of person who wants to disappoint children, but speaking for myself I'm completely sick of this.
My judges will not have 1 sinlge Dragon-Ex card.
It seems that this will be my last involvement in OP as TO.

[Sensei]

I was talking about the UK guys getting their stuff.

Now,like I said in your thread in the tourney forum,let us know how the event went and what all problems you had.Hopefully,you can get this resolved for the next event knowing what to expect.The game needs people in certain areas to go to bat for it.You are that person for the Netherlands.Stay strong and do it for the players!

`Sensei

[Tego]

I've been avoiding the Pokégym boards for several weeks now. I don't know if any of you have noticed my absence, but I used to post at least 3 posts a day, so you should. Why have I been avoiding it? Because of the Outside the US topic. It went nowhere, and there was no civilized discussion anymore.

And it got locked in a sad way. It just had to end like this.

I'll be around at the trade forums and RTC and so on, but I'm "afraid" of posting anywhere in the News Discussion because I feel that "the company man" doesn't belong here.

The company man, signing off.

[Tahna]

Ok, no rant, but just plain facts:

The tournament in Aalsmeer went great, we had a bit of a delay at first, when half of the 15+ category got stuck in the traffic jam, which gave us another 1to 1.5 hours extra, in which the 10- deckbuilding was handled (you know how it is, you have to keep their cards with them all times, make sure they don't start trading them, open their boosters if they're not able to)

Nice turnout in all, about 50 people participating, and I'm very happy with my prerelease Gyarados ( :smirk: )

I'll leave the parts that did not went so well (if there should be any) to our lovely TO, and end by saying that I wish these boards had a sarcasm smiley.

[Rainbowgym]

Hi Tahna, my dear helpfull allround judge, thank you for helping us again giving all that time for only 1 Gyarados prerelease card.

Total number of players 54, but according to POP and PSgames that's a small tournament and doesn't need to be supported more than this. Meaby otherwise we could have award you with 2 Gyarados cards.

[RainbowRichards]

Originally Posted by Rainbowgym

Total number of players 54, but according to POP and PSgames that's a small tournament and doesn't need to be supported more than this. Meaby otherwise we could have award you with 2 Gyarados cards.

Sure am sorry to hear that the prize support only allowed awarding the second place finishers with much less booster packs than the 18 which are awarded here!! :(

[Michel]

54 players a small tournament ?
There are not many people who can run larger tournaments than this in Europe, and probaly in the USA, especially with the support you've had these last weeks in Holland.
Congrats to you girls !!! Your southern neighbours are proud of you

If 'small support' only is given to tournaments with 54 players, I don't worry about the distributor's expenses for POP ;) They'll have money left for main events with a lot of trips to win :p

Tego, feel free to post here or not, and feel free to belong to the community or not, that's your own personal decision. ;)
Even if some posts have been too 'hard' IMO in the other topic you mention, I think that if you read all the posts, very interesting info has been given and important subjects discussed.
I do agree on the fact that the way it has been discussed has not always been the best, but without that kind of topic, we would probably not have info and explanations given by Dave.
You, as a 'company man' as you call yourself, probably know the things said to us by Dave, but we, as simple players/TO's/LC's wouldn't know it without the boards.
With 292 posts, and more than 4000 views, that topic has been the most successful one for a long time on the Pokegym. People are interested in the subject.
You say that it went nowhere, maybe, but if that kind of topic didn't exist, if people involved in OP outside the USA don't have the opportunity to talk about the situation, if these people just sit and wait, it's POP outside the USA that could go nowhere.

Let's imagine a situation without Profs in Holland, UK or Italy fighting to run pre-releases, with people all around the World just waiting for something happening without emailing PUI, without coming to the boards, talking on AIM, ...

Even with all the work and efforts of PUI, POP would now be nothing else than a souvenir without any view on an eventual future.

Like I said earlier on this topic, I'm sure that a peaceful discussion is more positive than anything else, and that personal things can be discussed by mail, but the fact that we may talk about our countries on the boards is essential if we want to see the game coming back in the future.