[New?] Liability deck: Beedrill Delta

[Otaku]

Name: Liabeelity

Pokemon x 18
3 Beedrill d
2 Kakuna DS
2 Koffing DX
2 Pidgeot
1 Pidgeotto
2 Pidgey
4 Weedle RG
2 Weezing DX

Trainers x 26
3 Celio's Network
3 Copycat
4 Desert Ruins
2 Energy Root
1 Pokémon Retriever
2 Pokemon Reversal
1 Pow! Hand Extension
3 Rare Candy
3 Rocket's Admin.
3 Steven's Advice
1 Warp Point

Energy x 16
3 Double Rainbow Energy
8 Grass Energy
4 Metal Energy
1 Scramble Energy

Here's the original list for reference purposes.

Originally Posted by Old List

Pokemon x 17
3 Beedrill d
2 Kakuna DS
4 Koffing DX
4 Weedle RG
4 Weezing DX
Trainers x 27
3 Celio's Network
4 Desert Ruins
2 Energy Root
2 Holon Lass
1 Pokémon Retriever
1 Pokemon Reversal
2 Pow! Hand Extension
2 Rare Candy
3 Rocket's Admin.
3 Steven's Advice
3 TV Reporter
1 Warp Point
Energy x 16
3 Double Rainbow Energy
8 Grass Energy
4 Metal Energy
1 Scramble Energy

Strategy: Once a Beedrill is about to be KO'd, use it's Poke-Power, bring up a Weezing (hopefully with Energy Root), and KO something of the opponent's that is good with Liability. The Metal Energy are there... to provide Metal Energy with less of a headache than Multi-Energy. Beedrill needs either that or a DRE to be able to Attack, and that's fine. The rest is pretty standard fare, though I must confess, I don't know how well the deck runs: this is an experimental deck I won't be able to test until probably next week.

If you think you see a problem with it, lay it out and try to propose a solution. I don't want to get away from the "Liabeelity" angle, though. I love Liability decks, and to have stumbled upon one that isn't too well known would be wonderful...

Feel free to copy it and test it yourself so long as you let me know how it does. That's also the best way to get me to accept fixes: ones you tested yourself. ;)

Thanks. :-D

[SomethingElse]

so you sacrifice 2 prizes to take their 1 guy every turn? You lose to any ZRE, Ludicargo, Nidoqueen, SMP =/

[shiftrymaster68]

This deck isn;t good beacuse as Something Else said, you're giving 2 prizes for 1, which Acid Liability only gives up 1 for 1 and gets the upper hand. Sorry, I just don't see how this deck is going to win.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Otaku*

Strategy: Once a Beedrill is about to be KO'd, use it's Poke-Power, bring up a Weezing (hopefully with Energy Root), and KO something of the opponent's that is good with Liability.

*Emphasis added by me.

I see I wasn't clear enough. Beedrill is supposed to be attacking. Otherwise I wouldn't have needed the Metal Energy to use its attack. You will not use Beedrill's Power until Beedrill is already about to be KO'd.

Originally Posted by Otaku

I don't want to get away from the "Liabeelity" angle, though.

That comment is perhaps helping in misleading? You see, I just meant that I comments saying things like "You should run Dark Crobat/Victreebel/Typhlosion instead of Beedrill Delta" or "You shouldn't run any Weezing" will more than likely be ignored, as I don't want to abandon the entire concept. Streamlining it is not a problem. FOr example, I probably won't need four Weezing.

Hopefully this clears things up.

I also notice some of the decks that were mentioned as being hard for this deck are quite vulnerable to either Grass Pokemon or the liability strategy...

[MonkeyMan8889]

Why is this better then the other liability decks? The other ones dont make you sacrifice 2 pokemon to kill one of thiers...

I mean sure its a cool idea, but why would you want to use this instead of victreebell?

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by MonkeyMan8889

Why is this better then the other liability decks?

It may not be. its untested. I didn't say it was better. However, this is how, on paper, the decks stack up against each other:

Dark Crobat/Weezing relies very heavily on the Liability combo, but also tends to pull it off with the least risk to itself. It can Black Beam, retreat/switch out, then bring up Weezing with an Energy Root for a "mock" sacrifice. Sure, Weezing will almost certainly be KO'd by an opponent's attack... but if not then you can Liability again (extra nasty if you have a Switch or Warp Point so you can make sure to pull off the full combination). As stated, without Weezing, all you have is Dark Crobat, and Dark Crobat doesn't have very strong attacks. They are good attacks, but lack enough brute force to be useful on their own.

Victreebel/Weezing relies on Liability, but Victreebel actually has a solid attack backing it up. When it's Weezing's are gone, Victreebel is strong enough to usually net another prize or two on its own... provided it didn't get too beat up, since you need to use Liability (KOing the Weezing), bring up Victreebel whose Poke-Body KOs the opponent between turns.

Of the established "Liability decks", Typhlosion is the least reliant on Weezing, with solid attacks. It will still use the combo, and so long as it survives being hit by the opponent, will go on to likely take another prize via rage.

What I seek with this deck is to essentially go one step further than with Typhlosion. Beedrill is to be the main attacker, hitting hard and fast. Weezing is there because it is a solid staller (should Beedrill be slow) and does give access to a decent combo should the opportunity present itself. Namely after Beedrill delta has KO'd one thing, if something else comes up an nearly KO's Beedrill delta, I use it's Poke-Power, bring up a Weezing (hopefully with Energy Root), and take it down right away as well. In this respect, the combo doesn't cost me that many resources: Beedrill delta is already "as good as gone", so I risk taking an "extra hit" and sacrificng a Stage 1 and a single Energy to take out something strong enough to come up an nearly take out my Beedrill delta.

This is likely where the confusion arises. I confess, I hurridly constructed the deck list, and so it is not readily apparent what I intended.

Originally Posted by MonkeyMan8889

The other ones dont make you sacrifice 2 pokemon to kill one of thiers...

Except thats not what should be happening. A Beedrill that is lucky to be alive is being sacrificed, along with a Weezing, to take out whatever has mauled my Beedrill thusly.

Originally Posted by MonkeyMan8889

I mean sure its a cool idea, but why would you want to use this instead of victreebell?

1) It's something new

2) What do you mean instead? I'll likely have both decks at the ready

3) I've been running Victreebel for a while now, probably about 6 months.

[Dek]

Originally Posted by Otaku

That comment is perhaps helping in misleading? You see, I just meant that I comments saying things like "You should run Dark Crobat/Victreebel/Typhlosion instead of Beedrill Delta" or "You shouldn't run any Weezing" will more than likely be ignored, as I don't want to abandon the entire concept. Streamlining it is not a problem.

That's what I try to get across, but NOOOOOooooooo... -_-

May sound a little redundant (on my end, at least), but could teching a crystal shard be possible for this deck?

Reason I say this is because there is a good chance that many will play some sort of Dragonite variant. What better way to counter than to use a CS on the Dragonites..

[Jaeger]

This deck is not supposed to be a high level competer and I don't think this will get anywhere near a tournament all he is trying to do is try something new, as for the deck this is not stragiht liablilty you will most like only use Beedrills power when its weak or close to death so 4 Weezing is overkill I would drop it to a 2-2 and you do have a Pokemon Retriever, I would drop both Holon Lass also.

-2 Koffing
-2 Weezing
-2 Holon Lass
-3 TV Reporter
-1 Energy Root

+2 Pidgey
+1 Pidgeotto
+2 Pidgeot
+1 Rare Candy
+3 Copy Cat
+1 Celios Network

[Otaku]

Thanks Jaeger. In case anyone has a really small posts-per-page count, here's the current list after using most of Jaeger's suggestions.

Name: Liabeelity

Pokemon x 18
3 Beedrill d
2 Kakuna DS
2 Koffing DX
2 Pidgeot
1 Pidgeotto
2 Pidgey
4 Weedle RG
2 Weezing DX

Trainers x 26
3 Celio's Network
3 Copycat
4 Desert Ruins
2 Energy Root
1 Pokémon Retriever
2 Pokemon Reversal
1 Pow! Hand Extension
3 Rare Candy
3 Rocket's Admin.
3 Steven's Advice
1 Warp Point

Energy x 16
3 Double Rainbow Energy
8 Grass Energy
4 Metal Energy
1 Scramble Energy

[Jaeger]

I think you got weedle and koffing confused

[Otaku]

Yes... yes I did.

[poe112]

thats a pretty cool deck

[~Blazi-King~]

Awesome, Glad to see the deck we talked about up and running.

What about trying the deck with 4 Oaks and 4 Admins Comboed with Porygon2 so that you could increase your draw ? I tried this particular setup in a Gardevoir deck and it ran fairly well givinbg you on average 2-3 more cards in your hand. Granted they are not exactly what you need but it wou free up 1 space for another celio ( which imo is key for a non-ex deck )

I will build this deck and do some heavy testing for you on Thursday an I will get back to you either Friday or Saturday.

Love the Idea

EDIT : I like the Alphabetical Order of your list too

[jkwarrior]

Clay, dude I tried your Porygon 2 with 4 Admins, 2 Oaks, and 2 Vs Seekers...LOL I admined this guy 6 times on Sunday. It was hilarious.

[Shade1391]

are you guys sure that if you knock out beedrill your self your opponent takes a prize? cause on the card it dosent say ( this counts as knocking out beedrill ) atleast i dont think it does.

[super goku ken]

Nice deck good work I like this Idea

[~Blazi-King~]

Originally Posted by Shade1391

are you guys sure that if you knock out beedrill your self your opponent takes a prize? cause on the card it dosent say ( this counts as knocking out beedrill ) atleast i dont think it does.

Its the same with Weezing DX. If a pokemon gets KO'd regardless whether it says it or not the opposing player"HAS" to take a prize and whether its from an attack or other method.

[Otaku]

Well, Weezing works a bit differently than Beedrill δ. Weezing places damage counters on itself. As such, I wouldn't compare Beedrill δ to that. However it is almost the same as Electrode ex.

Here's the wording for Final Sting:

Originally Posted by Final Sting

Once during your turn (before your attack), you may Knock Out Beedrill. If you do, choose 1 of your opponent's Defending Pokemon. That Pokemon is now Paralyzed and Poisoned. Put 2 damage counters instead of 1 on that Pokemon between turns. This power can't be used if Beedrill is affected by a Special Condition.

Since it says Knock Out, and that is a specific game term, I would assume it is worth a Prize.

Here's Electrode ex:

Once during your turn (before your attack), you may discard Electrode ex and all the cards attached to it (this counts as Knocking Out Electrode ex). If you do, search your discard pile for 5 Energy cards and attach them to any of your Pokemon (excluding Pokemon-ex) in any way you like. THis power can't be used if Electrode ex is affected by a Special Condition.

[Shade1391]

ooooo ok i thought so just curious thanks

[super goku ken]

why no Solid Rage it well be good in this deck

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by super goku ken

why no Solid Rage it well be good in this deck

Why would it be good in this deck? What would you remove to make room?

[Venusaur]

Originally Posted by PSYCO829

honestly, you should try crobat ex
liadility 10 hp left distort with crobat (ko) and you can still attack, either with a weazing or crobat ex
just a thought

Risky thing about that is they could evolve after the liability so the distort won't KO them next turn, they could Briney or Potion or something too.

[gunycabj]

Originally Posted by Venusaur

Risky thing about that is they could evolve after the liability so the distort won't KO them next turn, they could Briney or Potion or something too.

Yes if you are playing weezing you should kill your opponent in one turn, its too dangerous if they heal they damaged pokemon, mainly if it isnt an EX.

[Otaku]

Sorry for the long delay. I was much longer than anticipated before I could test it. Having done so, I think I need a different form of support than Pidgeot. For one thing, I can't get Pidgey with Weedle, who doubles as my set up Pokemon with a Grass only call for family. Honestly, I am thinking of Jirachi/Swoop. While I can't call for family for Jirachi either, I don't really need to: it's only their as a decent opening option. Then I can Swoop to whatever I have the Evo for. The deck is meant to be Turn 2, in a secnse: ideally i can candy to Beedrill then after having dropped a Metal or Grass Energy on Weedle the turn before, then drop a DRE and go to town. I am also wondering about using some Wally with the Celio, since the Kakuna I chose was for its first attack: getting an Evo with a Grass Energy. That means if I Wally a Weedle second turn (e.g. I go second) then I can have a Beedrill on my second turn that isn't so vulnerable to ATM Rock.

[Robbgobb]

I enjoy Ariados with Beedrill. I am not sure how well it works with Weezing but everyone seemed to want me to try with 2 DS Beedrill and 1 or 2 RG Beedrill.