Discarding energy question

Dro~ · 08/11/2003, 07:47 PM

This may have been asked before but I'm confused. The attack of blaziken says to discard a fire energy, if you do..... bla bla bla... The question is, do you have to discard or can you choose not to discard so you don't do additional damage to your opponent's bench? I think you have to discard because by looking at expedition charmeleon, its flamethrower says 'discard a fire energy attached to charmeleon'. We assume that we have to discard or this attack does nothing.

*yoshi1001* · 08/11/2003, 07:52 PM

I was wondering the same thing. I think that if you can, you have to. If you can't (say you were metronoming the attack and didn't have fire energy) you would do the 50 but not get the extra effect.

***Chrisbo*** · 08/11/2003, 08:12 PM

The text does not say "you MAY discard a Fire energy...", therefore it is a mandatory part of the attack unless it's being Metronomed or something like that (good call Yoshi).

Later,
- CHRISBO

Dro~ · 08/11/2003, 08:16 PM

You mean these attacks could still be metronomed or sketched without discarding energy? I was told that the new cards are worded this way so that the metronome user has to discard an energy or the attack does nothing.

*yoshi1001* · 08/11/2003, 08:20 PM

Normally they are worded with "or this attack does nothing." This one, however, ties the discard with the bench damage. So the metronoming pokemon would get the 50 damage but no bench damage.

Dro~ · 08/11/2003, 08:33 PM

What about expedition charmeleon's flamethrower and other expedition and on cards? I don't find any cards from expedition and later sets have the phrase 'or this attack does nothing' anymore.

*yoshi1001* · 08/11/2003, 08:36 PM

True, the phrase has fallen out of favor, but so few opportunities actually exist for metronoming that it's really a waste of text.

***PokePop*** · 08/12/2003, 06:35 AM

I would say they dropped the wording because in Japan they do not encourage the playing of e-cards with the older sets and therefore are not wording things to take those old cards into account.

Not countering Metronome is one example.
No longer mentioning "Pokemon Powers" (as opposed to Poke-Powers and Poke-Bodies) is another.

Dro~ · 08/12/2003, 04:29 PM

So when smeargle sketches flamethrower, it doesn't need to discard then?

*Mr. Grass* · 08/12/2003, 08:01 PM

It depends on the text of the Flamethrower being Sketched and whether or not Smeargle has any Fire Energies attached. If it's the old text with the "in order to" line the Smeargle doesn't have to. If it's the new text which just says to discard a Fire Energy, Smeargle would only have to if it had Fire energies attached.

Dro~ · 08/13/2003, 12:45 PM

Do you flip for smokescreen first before discarding energy for the new flamethrower? According to the rule book, for an attack that has the text 'in order to do this attack', you must discard first then you can flip to check for smokescreen.

Celebexpert2 · 08/13/2003, 04:29 PM

is if you wanted,when it says:you may,that significate that you may discard a fire energy or not discard a fire energy.... :D

Marril · 08/13/2003, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celebexpert2

is if you wanted,when it says:you may,that significate that you may discard a fire energy or not discard a fire energy....

Either that, or the english language is choking on its own grammar again.

I dunno, Pokémon wording is weird, but at least it's not as weird as YGO's (which reminds me of Beta-era M:TG).

*Mr. Grass* · 08/13/2003, 07:23 PM

New Flamethrowers would discard after the flip for Smokescreen since their discard is an effect of the attack rather than an in order to cost.

Water Pokemon Master · 08/15/2003, 03:24 AM

Basically, anything that says "may" is optional.

NoPoke · 08/17/2003, 01:44 PM

I suspect it is a mistake.... Blaziken Flamethrower attack 80 RCCC has 'Discard a Fire energy card attached to Blaziken' and no further text.

Blaziken Holo has Fire Stream RCC 50 and conditional text after the Discard. So I suspect that the translator assumed that both Blazikens were the same with the discard of a fire..

there is a scan of the foil Blaziken on pokeschool...http://www.pokeschool.com/tcg/sets/jp/adv/scans/011.jpg but I haven't found a scan of the Flamethrower Blaziken to compare the Japanese text. I can't read the Japanese but I can compare symbols!. Anyone got a scan of the Japanese 110HP Blaziken??

We have seen this omission of the 'you may' before with a Wotc translated Feraligatr.

***PokePop*** · 08/17/2003, 03:03 PM

Yeah, but with e-Gatr, the card was practically unplayable if you did not assume the "You may".

Here, it works fine if you play it as printed.

08/11/2003, 07:52 PM	#2
yoshi1001 Images: 8	I was wondering the same thing. I think that if you can, you have to. If you can't (say you were metronoming the attack and didn't have fire energy) you would do the 50 but not get the extra effect. __________________ Listen to PIRN! The Pokemon Internet Radio Network. We have tons of Pokemon Music, along with interviews with major players in the Pokemon world. Now in CD quality! Latest Song Parody: Dewott You Do League Leader-Pegasus Games-Madison, WI

08/11/2003, 08:12 PM	#3
*Chrisbo* Administrator Images: 7	The text does not say "you MAY discard a Fire energy...", therefore it is a mandatory part of the attack unless it's being Metronomed or something like that (good call Yoshi). Later, - CHRISBO __________________ -- Administrator, PokéGym.Net -- Head Judge, Worlds 2004 (11-14) -- Head Judge, CA State Championships 2004 -- Head Judge, various Prereleases (SoCal) 2003-present -- Sexiest Professor Alive, 2006

08/11/2003, 08:20 PM	#5
yoshi1001 Images: 8	Normally they are worded with "or this attack does nothing." This one, however, ties the discard with the bench damage. So the metronoming pokemon would get the 50 damage but no bench damage. __________________ Listen to PIRN! The Pokemon Internet Radio Network. We have tons of Pokemon Music, along with interviews with major players in the Pokemon world. Now in CD quality! Latest Song Parody: Dewott You Do League Leader-Pegasus Games-Madison, WI Last edited by yoshi1001; 08/11/2003 at 08:20 PM.

08/11/2003, 08:36 PM	#7
yoshi1001 Images: 8	True, the phrase has fallen out of favor, but so few opportunities actually exist for metronoming that it's really a waste of text. __________________ Listen to PIRN! The Pokemon Internet Radio Network. We have tons of Pokemon Music, along with interviews with major players in the Pokemon world. Now in CD quality! Latest Song Parody: Dewott You Do League Leader-Pegasus Games-Madison, WI

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08/11/2003, 07:47 PM	#1
Dro~	Discarding energy question This may have been asked before but I'm confused. The attack of blaziken says to discard a fire energy, if you do..... bla bla bla... The question is, do you have to discard or can you choose not to discard so you don't do additional damage to your opponent's bench? I think you have to discard because by looking at expedition charmeleon, its flamethrower says 'discard a fire energy attached to charmeleon'. We assume that we have to discard or this attack does nothing. __________________ [CENTER]AKA Taichi from wizpog ---------------- Check out this GENGAR + Electrode ex deck Last edited by Dro~; 08/11/2003 at 07:48 PM.

08/11/2003, 08:16 PM	#4
Dro~	You mean these attacks could still be metronomed or sketched without discarding energy? I was told that the new cards are worded this way so that the metronome user has to discard an energy or the attack does nothing. __________________ [CENTER]AKA Taichi from wizpog ---------------- Check out this GENGAR + Electrode ex deck

08/11/2003, 08:33 PM	#6
Dro~	What about expedition charmeleon's flamethrower and other expedition and on cards? I don't find any cards from expedition and later sets have the phrase 'or this attack does nothing' anymore. __________________ [CENTER]AKA Taichi from wizpog ---------------- Check out this GENGAR + Electrode ex deck

08/12/2003, 06:35 AM	#8
*PokePop* Administrator Images: 1073	I would say they dropped the wording because in Japan they do not encourage the playing of e-cards with the older sets and therefore are not wording things to take those old cards into account. Not countering Metronome is one example. No longer mentioning "Pokemon Powers" (as opposed to Poke-Powers and Poke-Bodies) is another.

08/12/2003, 04:29 PM	#9
Dro~	So when smeargle sketches flamethrower, it doesn't need to discard then? __________________ [CENTER]AKA Taichi from wizpog ---------------- Check out this GENGAR + Electrode ex deck

08/12/2003, 08:01 PM	#10
Mr. Grass	It depends on the text of the Flamethrower being Sketched and whether or not Smeargle has any Fire Energies attached. If it's the old text with the "in order to" line the Smeargle doesn't have to. If it's the new text which just says to discard a Fire Energy, Smeargle would only have to if it had Fire energies attached. __________________ "She can violate my rights" Brock "You and I will be married someday too." Misty to Ash You think you'v got it bad, The? My first name is Mr.

08/13/2003, 12:45 PM	#11
Dro~	Do you flip for smokescreen first before discarding energy for the new flamethrower? According to the rule book, for an attack that has the text 'in order to do this attack', you must discard first then you can flip to check for smokescreen. __________________ [CENTER]AKA Taichi from wizpog ---------------- Check out this GENGAR + Electrode ex deck

08/13/2003, 04:29 PM	#12
Celebexpert2	is if you wanted,when it says:you may,that significate that you may discard a fire energy or not discard a fire energy.... :D

08/13/2003, 07:23 PM	#14
Mr. Grass	New Flamethrowers would discard after the flip for Smokescreen since their discard is an effect of the attack rather than an in order to cost. __________________ "She can violate my rights" Brock "You and I will be married someday too." Misty to Ash You think you'v got it bad, The? My first name is Mr.

08/15/2003, 03:24 AM	#15
Water Pokemon Master Avatar Creator	Basically, anything that says "may" is optional.

08/17/2003, 01:44 PM	#16
NoPoke Images: 6	I suspect it is a mistake.... Blaziken Flamethrower attack 80 RCCC has 'Discard a Fire energy card attached to Blaziken' and no further text. Blaziken Holo has Fire Stream RCC 50 and conditional text after the Discard. So I suspect that the translator assumed that both Blazikens were the same with the discard of a fire.. there is a scan of the foil Blaziken on pokeschool...http://www.pokeschool.com/tcg/sets/jp/adv/scans/011.jpg but I haven't found a scan of the Flamethrower Blaziken to compare the Japanese text. I can't read the Japanese but I can compare symbols!. Anyone got a scan of the Japanese 110HP Blaziken?? We have seen this omission of the 'you may' before with a Wotc translated Feraligatr.

08/17/2003, 03:03 PM	#17
*PokePop* Administrator Images: 1073	Yeah, but with e-Gatr, the card was practically unplayable if you did not assume the "You may". Here, it works fine if you play it as printed.