Blaziken's firestream

skarmory777 · 01/23/2004, 05:39 PM

I'm new and I bet this has been up a few times, but I just wanted a ruling on blazikens firestream.All the people at my league have been debating this ruling for awhile.It says on blaziken's firestream to discard a fire.Then it says IF you do then do 10 to each of your opponents bench.The way I see it it's opptional but all the rulings I have gotten says you must discard the energy or the attack does nothing.I just wanted this to be debated and ruled on.Add your opinion if you feel like it.

JediDrew · 01/23/2004, 05:41 PM

Its not optional. You have to discard the fire. I think the ruling should stay the same.

*TrEkIeV* · 01/23/2004, 06:00 PM

is it mandatory or optional for the kids who play the card in Japan?

NoPoke · 01/24/2004, 03:08 AM

TrEkIeV is right. The card is badly translated so we have to go by the original intent of the card.. Its probably in the Queue of questions that are awaiting a reply from Japan.

FWIW I play it that the discard is optional. If there were no choice involved then I doubt that the translation would have become so garbled. But what do I know! LOL

Adv1sor · 01/24/2004, 03:30 AM

Quote:

== FIRE STREAM (Blaziken - EX:Ruby/Sapphire)

Q. Do I *have* to discard a fire energy when using Blaziken's "Fire Stream" attack, or is it optional?
A. It does not say "you may discard...", so it is mandatory in this case. (Oct 23, 2003 PUI Rules Team)

You have to discard a fire energy.

NoPoke · 01/24/2004, 04:14 AM

:( Blast!

*mozartrules* · 01/24/2004, 10:18 AM

It is not optional. This kind of wording is common and is there for attacks like Clefable's Metronome where the attack can happen on a Pokemon with no fire energy.

skarmory777 · 01/24/2004, 03:28 PM

I really think thats a bad ruling.The card says if you DO not if you CAN, but oh well.Can't really do anything to change it.Blaziken still kills with magcargo ex/rayquaza.

***PokePop*** · 01/24/2004, 05:58 PM

As Mozartrules points out, there is a reason for the wording.
It's not as much an issue as it used to be, but there are still attacks and Powers that would be affected by it.

BLiZzArD · 01/24/2004, 08:35 PM

Since Lugia's Relm and are are the one that originally started this debate and requested said ruling I have to agree that the card does say to discard and so you must. Now I also know the reason it's worded the way it is (which is why the debate started at my league) That reason is Cards like Expedition Alakazam which lets you copy attacks but you must continue to pay the other costs involved(as in this case Blaziken's fire energy discard). I know the wording is wierd but if you look at it in this light you will understand why you must discard the energy.
BLiZ

*TrEkIeV* · 01/25/2004, 03:09 AM

blah blah blah...

so you guys are saying it is mandatory for the kids who play the card in Japan?

Lugias_Realm · 01/25/2004, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrEkIeV

blah blah blah...

so you guys are saying it is mandatory for the kids who play the card in Japan?

Not Just Japan but here also. Discarding is a must, you do not have a option. Blizzard and I had this question presented about 3 months ago and ruling was stated that discarding is not a option, plain and simple. If you don't discard the Fire the Attack does not work!!!

johnznothere · 01/25/2004, 07:50 AM

How bout Moltres' Wildfire?

***PokePop*** · 01/25/2004, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrEkIeV

blah blah blah...

so you guys are saying it is mandatory for the kids who play the card in Japan?

We're not saying one word about how the card is played in Japan.

NoPoke · 01/25/2004, 12:19 PM

what cards can this wording defeat?

Fossil Ditto Does 50 plus bench damage (so no effect on Ditto!)

Jungle Clefable Metronome 50 damage might do bench damage
Genesis super metronome flippy 50 damage might do bench damage
promo Togepi mini-metronome flippy 50 damage might do bench damage
Aqua Togetic mini metronome flippy 50 damage might do bench damage

Aqua Sudowoodo Copy: but that needs fire energy so no effect on Copy

are there any others that I've missed?

So in the current modified we just have the flipy Togetic mini-metronome from Aqua. Which isn't going to be in modified for much longer...

Has the wording been refered back to Japan? (fingers crossed)

***PokePop*** · 01/25/2004, 02:09 PM

Not so much defeat, as limit, and it was the Metronone and Sketch attacks that were considered by us.

Did we refer it to Japan?
Well, given that we have rulings that we really, really need their help on and haven't heard from answers back in, oh let's see... months!; I'm not inclinded to take it to them.

Does anyone have a Japanese translation that says that this is optional?

NoPoke · 01/25/2004, 02:32 PM

I agree that there are more important things that Japan needs to answer.. how many questions are in tha backlog? how many has Japan answered? Maybe a nice easy question will get the answers flowing from japan?

what was wrong with the 'discard or does nothing' text as a way of limiting metronome? Even the 'in order to' text would be better than the current templating. Have all the original game designers left Pokemon? Don't they use a database for attacks and templating?

(err don't send those to Japan! ;) )

'defeat' maybe wasn't the right term but it doesn't seem to be much of a limit on the metronome type attacks. I'd rather have the straight damage half of the time rather than have to discard a fire energy all the time. 50 damage on a stage two 100HP fire card for three energy seems a little expensive in these days of massive hitters.

Anyone got a scan of the Japanese Blaziken?

ColdCoates90 · 01/25/2004, 04:45 PM

Not that I don't believe everyone on this topic that this ruling is correct, but is this ruling somewhere offically?

NoPoke · 01/25/2004, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moltres423

Not that I don't believe everyone on this topic that this ruling is correct, but is this ruling somewhere offically?

see AdvIsor's post above :p the quote is from The Compedium website. Repository of all Rules things for Pokémon

Shdwchu · 01/25/2004, 05:39 PM

ok here's a question. Say blaze is confused. And I attack but flip tails. if I dont' discard the NRG does the attack Just NOT WORK, thus doing no damage to myself what so ever?

**BJJ763** · 01/25/2004, 07:42 PM

When Blaziken is Confused and you flip tails, you put 3 damage counters on Blaziken. That attack replaces Blaziken's normal attack and Discarding of energy is not required.

01/23/2004, 06:00 PM	#3
TrEkIeV Images: 2	is it mandatory or optional for the kids who play the card in Japan? __________________ -Matt Yuen trekiev's eBay auctions

01/24/2004, 03:08 AM	#4
NoPoke Images: 6	TrEkIeV is right. The card is badly translated so we have to go by the original intent of the card.. Its probably in the Queue of questions that are awaiting a reply from Japan. FWIW I play it that the discard is optional. If there were no choice involved then I doubt that the translation would have become so garbled. But what do I know! LOL __________________ Click for a graph of the number of X-2s or better against attendance One of the Dinosaurs.

01/24/2004, 04:14 AM	#6
NoPoke Images: 6	:( Blast! __________________ Click for a graph of the number of X-2s or better against attendance One of the Dinosaurs.

01/25/2004, 03:09 AM	#11
TrEkIeV Images: 2	blah blah blah... so you guys are saying it is mandatory for the kids who play the card in Japan? __________________ -Matt Yuen trekiev's eBay auctions

01/25/2004, 12:19 PM	#15
NoPoke Images: 6	what cards can this wording defeat? Fossil Ditto Does 50 plus bench damage (so no effect on Ditto!) Jungle Clefable Metronome 50 damage might do bench damage Genesis super metronome flippy 50 damage might do bench damage promo Togepi mini-metronome flippy 50 damage might do bench damage Aqua Togetic mini metronome flippy 50 damage might do bench damage Aqua Sudowoodo Copy: but that needs fire energy so no effect on Copy are there any others that I've missed? So in the current modified we just have the flipy Togetic mini-metronome from Aqua. Which isn't going to be in modified for much longer... Has the wording been refered back to Japan? (fingers crossed) __________________ Click for a graph of the number of X-2s or better against attendance One of the Dinosaurs.

01/23/2004, 05:39 PM	#1
skarmory777	Blaziken's firestream I'm new and I bet this has been up a few times, but I just wanted a ruling on blazikens firestream.All the people at my league have been debating this ruling for awhile.It says on blaziken's firestream to discard a fire.Then it says IF you do then do 10 to each of your opponents bench.The way I see it it's opptional but all the rulings I have gotten says you must discard the energy or the attack does nothing.I just wanted this to be debated and ruled on.Add your opinion if you feel like it.

01/23/2004, 05:41 PM	#2
JediDrew	Its not optional. You have to discard the fire. I think the ruling should stay the same. __________________ AIM: DOtheDREW730 Last edited by JediDrew; 01/23/2004 at 05:43 PM.

01/24/2004, 10:18 AM	#7
mozartrules	It is not optional. This kind of wording is common and is there for attacks like Clefable's Metronome where the attack can happen on a Pokemon with no fire energy.

01/24/2004, 03:28 PM	#8
skarmory777	I really think thats a bad ruling.The card says if you DO not if you CAN, but oh well.Can't really do anything to change it.Blaziken still kills with magcargo ex/rayquaza.

01/24/2004, 05:58 PM	#9
*PokePop* Administrator Images: 1073	As Mozartrules points out, there is a reason for the wording. It's not as much an issue as it used to be, but there are still attacks and Powers that would be affected by it.

01/24/2004, 08:35 PM	#10
BLiZzArD Images: 528	Since Lugia's Relm and are are the one that originally started this debate and requested said ruling I have to agree that the card does say to discard and so you must. Now I also know the reason it's worded the way it is (which is why the debate started at my league) That reason is Cards like Expedition Alakazam which lets you copy attacks but you must continue to pay the other costs involved(as in this case Blaziken's fire energy discard). I know the wording is wierd but if you look at it in this light you will understand why you must discard the energy. BLiZ

01/25/2004, 07:50 AM	#13
johnznothere	How bout Moltres' Wildfire? __________________ ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ now i know my abc's next time won't you sing with meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

01/25/2004, 02:09 PM	#16
*PokePop* Administrator Images: 1073	Not so much defeat, as limit, and it was the Metronone and Sketch attacks that were considered by us. Did we refer it to Japan? Well, given that we have rulings that we really, really need their help on and haven't heard from answers back in, oh let's see... months!; I'm not inclinded to take it to them. Does anyone have a Japanese translation that says that this is optional?

01/25/2004, 02:32 PM	#17
NoPoke Images: 6	I agree that there are more important things that Japan needs to answer.. how many questions are in tha backlog? how many has Japan answered? Maybe a nice easy question will get the answers flowing from japan? what was wrong with the 'discard or does nothing' text as a way of limiting metronome? Even the 'in order to' text would be better than the current templating. Have all the original game designers left Pokemon? Don't they use a database for attacks and templating? (err don't send those to Japan! ;) ) 'defeat' maybe wasn't the right term but it doesn't seem to be much of a limit on the metronome type attacks. I'd rather have the straight damage half of the time rather than have to discard a fire energy all the time. 50 damage on a stage two 100HP fire card for three energy seems a little expensive in these days of massive hitters. Anyone got a scan of the Japanese Blaziken? __________________ Click for a graph of the number of X-2s or better against attendance One of the Dinosaurs. Last edited by NoPoke; 01/25/2004 at 02:37 PM.

01/25/2004, 04:45 PM	#18
ColdCoates90	Not that I don't believe everyone on this topic that this ruling is correct, but is this ruling somewhere offically?

01/25/2004, 05:39 PM	#20
Shdwchu	ok here's a question. Say blaze is confused. And I attack but flip tails. if I dont' discard the NRG does the attack Just NOT WORK, thus doing no damage to myself what so ever? __________________ Col. Shdwchu - Deck Analist Team Chicago/Team Heat Hybrid fire::lightning Just cause I'm Dark Doesn't mean I'm Evil...

01/25/2004, 07:42 PM	#21
BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Images: 2	When Blaziken is Confused and you flip tails, you put 3 damage counters on Blaziken. That attack replaces Blaziken's normal attack and Discarding of energy is not required. __________________ The Compendium "We are not purposely trying to mess with your minds." - DMTM Indentifier of the Magby Rule. Diamond & Pearl H/W You'd be crazy not to attend the New England Regional Championship.

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