Thread for debating the "North" Stadium Challenge...

[RainbowRichards]

I though we might start a new topic, vice continuing this debate in the East Stadium Challenge thread, to discuss the pros and cons of holding a seperate "North" region Stadium Challenge. Re-posting Gymbo's latest thoughts on the issue here:

Originally Posted by Jim Ferrell

Although I see the point of having the stadiums all across the country to include more players to win invites to an event such as Worlds, I do not agree it is fair at all.

You cannot just "assume" or "incorporate" Nationals as the "Northern Stadium Challenge." Even though there are invites to the winners.

Nationals is the final step that began with the City Championships. And last weekend begun the first of the State Championships. So, obviously, you are encouraging players from all over the country to come to Nationals because of the City and State Championships, right?

I have no problem with "incorporating" the North's Stadium Challenge at Origins, however make a SEPERATE TOURNAMENT from the National Championship.

So, here are my thoughts.

1. You cannot make an ALREADY NATIONALIZED AND PUBLICIZED venture into something else.
2. Make a SEPERATE tournament during the same weekend (which is already impossible do to time and other registration issues)

The North has always had quite a large impact on this game. I, and other players from the Northern states probably will not be happy with this. But wait, I'm only "complaining," right?

~Jim Ferrell

Interesting - it's already been edited... (there WAS one last line originally, wasn't there???)

[Gym Leader Blaine]

Originally Posted by RainbowRichards

Interesting - it's already been edited... (there WAS one last line originally, wasn't there???)

That is interesting that it has been edited already. The fact is the there is a South, West, and East Stadium. Now Jim might not want to look at Nationals as the North one, but that is how PUI is looking at it since it puts players into worlds. Yes Nationals is part of the City and State tournaments and the Gym and Stadiums are another sets of tournaments, but having Nationals be like a North Statdium then it would bring the two sets of tournaments together before worlds. The fact of it is this. WOTC in the past had two or three Stadiums and it looks like to me PUI is following the same rule, but could count Nationals as the 4th Stadium. These are just my thoughts and do not reflect the views of this station. Besides it is great that we have all these tournaments in the past year since PUI has taken over.

[dld4a]

Draw a 500 mi. circle around each of the Stadium Chalenges. Then draw a 500 mi. circle around Origins. The east gets two "Stadiums" the North gets ZERO. It ain't right! Chicagoland IS the most logical place for a north Stadium.

[meganium45]

Hate to say it, but I am going to side with PUSA on this one - surprise, surprise, as a PTO running a Stadium.

That is as ludicrous as saying Florida - one of the biggest areas around, should have one!

They have gym challenges, but no stadium challenges (oh, but wait, they have worlds)

Yes, you have to go to Origins, as it is the "North" Stadium Challenge.

Yes, I would have loved to run one a little closer to home, but had I had my choice, it would have been St. Louis or Indy and not Chicago - just better Poke Support. And let's face it - Texas, quite frankly has been Texas.

Chicago's last SC had low attendance, especially in comparison to the other stadiums, and if you remember then, the Florida and Texas people were barking.

I think the 3 locales are the best they can do to make as many people happy, and hopefully next year they will rotate it to St. Louis, Seattle/Portland and Florida for the Stadiums - That way Socal, Texas and NY will be able to bark.

I know they are looking at everything with a 2-3 year plan in mind! I find that very rewarding - heck, they are even announcing a 2005 World Championship at this time (prize for the World Champ Winner 2004).

Moral of the story is COME ON DOWN TO TEXAS!!!! IT'S HOTTER DOWN HERE!!!

Meganium45

[Gym Leader Blaine]

Originally Posted by dld4a

Draw a 500 mi. circle around each of the Stadium Chalenges. Then draw a 500 mi. circle around Origins. The east gets two "Stadiums" the North gets ZERO. It ain't right! Chicagoland IS the most logical place for a north Stadium.

My second to last post on this thread, cause I really dont feel arguing about if the North should get a Stadium or if Origans counts as one is going to get the North one. You say the North gets Zero, but you do have the Gym Challenges in your area, so that is not fully true. Not only that, but PUI is give trips away with the Challenges that is something WOTC has not done in a long time. Be happy about at least we are getting this great support from PUI for the game we love to play.

I dont make the rules, I just play the game!

[Gym Leader Blaine]

Originally Posted by meganium45

I think the 3 locales are the best they can do to make as many people happy, and hopefully next year they will rotate it to St. Louis, Seattle/Portland and Florida for the Stadiums - That way Socal, Texas and NY will be able to bark.

Maybe we could get one in Utah next year ;) Heck we had the 2002 Winter Olymics here why not a Stadium. :)

PS this is my last post, I promise on this thread.

[Jim Ferrell]

Okay, the editted part was when I included "Do whatever the hell you want" and decided that it was a little rash and childish so I took it off.

I am just saying the North (MI, IL, IN, OH, PA, NJ, NY) etc etc has always had HUGE impact on this game. Both Professor Champions, 11-14 World Champion, and the pair of World TMP Players all reside in the North (OH and MI, more specifically). I am not telling you that there is high quality players that live up here, you can look at any of the past biggest events and see this for yourself.

You are being ridiculous if you can say with a straight face that Nationals is the same thing as the Stadium Challenges. Nationals, like I said, has been part of a huge chain that already stemmed back to earlier this year.

By the same token then, if you go to one of these "Stadium Challenges" you should have some "lead in" perhaps you could win your Gym Challenge or something then. Everyone in the COUNTRY has a unique chance to win at Nationals which is at Origins. Saying that Origins is the "North's exclusive Stadium-esque Challenge" is wrong.

You KNOW this isn't fair to the Northern players, but hey whatever. Chicago would have been a MUCH better place for the "Central" Stadium than Texas as it would have allowed more Western access.

Life isn't fair. I'm just clarifying what was "edited" before rumors and nonsense goes flying. This also isn't about what part of the country is better than the other. I am just saying that such high quality players and support for this game for a LONG time shouldn't get the shaft like this.

~Jim Ferrell

[Sensei]

As I stated in the other thread,who cares what it`s called(Nationals). The end result is the same as an SC. Yeah,maybe it had a "lead in" to it, but take away the title,and its the same thing. Just look at the CC`s and States as added bonuses!:)

[FireFighter095ReBorn]

Ok guys i see what this discussion is breeding. Alington texas is the spot as stated for the central challenge. Thats that and noone can change it. As for the west and east noone knows. RUMORS have been stated about it and thats all. I will not go against sensei's word but remember even he said nintendo is deciding if its the definite spot and they havent cenfirmed it yet. Lets wait till the 2 weeks prior to origins and see what nintendo brings to the table as stadium challenges before we attack state by state for hosting a stadium challenge. My opinion if jersey dosent host it i think maryland is a good spot.

Ohh and florida dosent need a stadium challenge because tehy are hosting the showcase of pokemon gaming in august,Worlds!

[Sensei]

I will not go against sensei's word but remember even he said nintendo is deciding if its the definite spot and they havent cenfirmed it yet.

Umm,we have been approved for the East SC Joe.It`s not Nintendo we are waiting for...it`s to finalize the venue date it`s being held on. :)

[farbsman]

Sorry going to have to disagree here. I see no reason Chicago should have a Stadium. It has one of the lowest attendances for Prerelease tournaments. It also had the lowest attendance for the original Stadium Challenges. Even Wizards said they wouldn't have probably ran another there, if I remember right I was told they would have ran it in St. Louis.

Nationals is pretty much a Stadium Challenge. The City State, Nationals arguement doesn't work very well because you don't have to play in City and State to play in Nationals. Plus the only reason most people will go to Nationals is the fact that other games are available there too. City, State and Nationals are all separate tournaments except for the VIP package.

Only problem with Nationals is it costs $20 just to get in the door.

If Pokemon USA would have called the Nationals a Stadium nobody would be complaining. I can very easily see Texas getting the Stadium. They have a bigger attendance in Texas at there prereleases then the last Stadium Challenge had in Chicago.

No complaints here. I mean they have given us a lot more tournaments with prizes then Wizards ever dreamed. Why complain, if you complain to much, they could always start taking things away. Which that isn't always a bad thing. Ruby Sapphire Challenge anyone LOL

[yoshi1001]

Originally Posted by Sensei

As I stated in the other thread,who cares what it`s called(Nationals). The end result is the same as an SC. Yeah,maybe it had a "lead in" to it, but take away the title,and its the same thing. Just look at the CC`s and States as added bonuses!:)

Except you don't have to pay twice to get into a SC. That's just one difference. Also, a lot of cities in the North don't even have GCs yet (Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Minneapolis-St. Paul, etc.)

Anyway, hopefully this all clears up soon, but at the moment I don't consider Nationals an acceptable substitute for a SC.

"If Pokemon USA would have called the Nationals a Stadium nobody would be complaining. I can very easily see Texas getting the Stadium. They have a bigger attendance in Texas at there prereleases then the last Stadium Challenge had in Chicago. "

But have you seen their CC numbers? Much more comparable.

"Sorry going to have to disagree here. I see no reason Chicago should have a Stadium. It has one of the lowest attendances for Prerelease tournaments. It also had the lowest attendance for the original Stadium Challenges."

Actually, I believe the WCSC had even lower attendance that year, though that may have been a timing issue-as I recall, for many it was on the last week of school.

[TheAnswer3]

I have to agree with Gymbo here.

Nationals wasnt designed to be a Stadium challenge, it was MADE so all people could have another chance for a trip to worlds but also have 4 days to play various games all weekend. The Midwest espicially just as Gymbo said has some of the HIGHEST level players around and personally a SC around these parts would be quite intresting with all the high level competition around. If there were Northern Stadium Challenge it would not have to be in Chicago, i can think of a certain venue in Michigan that would be great for a Stadium Challenge, that being the Birch Run Expo Center. Birch Run is actually an outlet mall just about an hour and 15 minutes away from downtown detroit. There would be plenty for a family of non pokemon players to do if they planned on staying overnight, and it not being that bad of a drive if you left on Friday from Chicago/Ohio/Indiana/Illinos/Kentucky/Wisconsin/Ontario it would be a great venue imo. Im sure there are other places in the above mentioned states that need to be considered as well.

Main Point: the North needs a SC hands down.

My 2 cents
tA

[Sensei]

...it was MADE so all people could have another chance for a trip to worlds

So in other words the North still has an event that does the same thing(trips for Worlds) that the SC`s do.

Or,if we go by the arguments for a SC,then why can`t we have Nationals in the East,South and West?

See my point?

No reason to be wanting an SC there.You can:1) Travel to one,2) You have an event right there in the North that does the same thing.

No argument.Just reasoning. :)

`Sensei

[yoshi1001]

Originally Posted by Sensei

...it was MADE so all people could have another chance for a trip to worlds

So in other words the North still has an event that does the same thing(trips for Worlds) that the SC`s do.

Or,if we go by the arguments for a SC,then why can`t we have Nationals in the East,South and West?

See my point?

No reason to be wanting an SC there.You can:1) Travel to one,2) You have an event right there in the North that does the same thing.

No argument.Just reasoning. :)

`Sensei

Not really.

Nationals is a national competition at a (inter)national convention. Stadiums are regional competition at regional venues. In other words, we have to claw our way past everyone in the country while you only have to fend off people from your region. Now, I realize that the local people in the Origins area will have an advantage and therefore represent a larger share of the participants. However, the fact remains that there will be a larger extraregional participation at Nationals than at a SC.

[Sensei]

Different,but in the end the same result,no?

Bottom line is there is still an event to get the coveted trips and the SC`s are open to everyone...

[HypnosProjectHQ]

Sorry going to have to disagree here. I see no reason Chicago should have a Stadium. It has one of the lowest attendances for Prerelease tournaments. It also had the lowest attendance for the original Stadium Challenges.

Actually, the ideal spot for a North Stadium Challenge would be Manitowoc, WI. They had an attendance over 50 at their City Championship tournament, and they had over 60 participants at the EX: Team Magma vs. Team Aqua prerelease. There shouldn't really even be that much debate about it. Manitowoc is a lot closer to Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Iowa players than a lot of the other suggested locations thus far. This is only my opinion, but Manitowoc can always use their local gradeschool for a tournament location (like they are using for State Championships) and they can advertise and promote a lot better outside of the internet world. My Parents Basement is a shop where tons and tons of gamers in Wisconsin alone go, and that is why the Manitowoc tournaments get so much attendance. IMO, Manitowoc, WI should be hosting a Stadium Challenge for the North.

[yoshi1001]

The problem with Manitowoc is it's pretty remote. The only nearby decent airport is in Green Bay, and even then, most people will require a transfer to it.

Quite frankly I'm more insulted than anything else. If they had called Texas the central SC, I would have been fine, but one of the compass points is missing now, and it's not just the trips that I'm miffed about. In fact, I personally don't care a whole lot about the trips, as the chances of me getting one are quite remote. What I feel is like there's a big party going on and we've been left out. Maybe it's all perception, but I can't help but feel let down.

[Big Daddy Snorlax]

Personally I think they ought to just do away with the Stadiums all together and hold more Gym events. Stadiums and Gyms are identical in function except for the number of trips/invitations given out. Because there are twice the trips, they end up being bigger events, but the biggest difference I can see in Stadiums seems to be the fact that they cause huge unrest and controversy among all those areas that don't get one. My vote would be to eliminate the three Stadiums and hold 8 or 10 more Gyms. MORE IS BETTER!!!

BDS

[yoshi1001]

Good idea, BDS. Maybe we could have a minimum of one trip, and add more on based on attendance.

[GymLeaderPhil]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Snorlax

Personally I think they ought to just do away with the Stadiums all together and hold more Gym events. Stadiums and Gyms are identical in function except for the number of trips/invitations given out. Because there are twice the trips, they end up being bigger events, but the biggest difference I can see in Stadiums seems to be the fact that they cause huge unrest and controversy among all those areas that don't get one. My vote would be to eliminate the three Stadiums and hold 8 or 10 more Gyms. MORE IS BETTER!!!

BDS

More over, we should focus more Organized Play money towards the League program. Then build up from there. At this point in time, with Duel Masters around the corner, we need much more strength at the local level. Several of the PTOs are also League leaders. Can you imagine how much it would hurt if a PTO could not attend their League one or two weekends in a month? If anything, let's lessen the support given to Prereleases/Championships and place more support under the League.

All of you complaining that Nationals is going to be a widely attended event... guess what? There are people who travel half way across the country to attend Stadium Challenges as well. Heidi Craig drove from Florida in 2002 to the Chicago Stadium Challenge. If anything, Nationals NEEDS whatever attendance it may recieve. In Florida, we supported the Pokemon TCG at one of our local conventions, FX, in January ( http://www.gameflorida.com/pokemonfl...ntions/fx.html ). In addition, PTE supported the SoCal GenCon last December. Both of our attendances were VERY low, for several reasons, but it was mainly due to the convention admission price and associated fees.

If history continues, Origins will not draw many locals, simply because of the large price of admission and other fees associated with attending the convention (parking, food, etc). Would people still come to Origins if the main event wasnt Nationals but a Stadium? Yes. Aside from Comic Con in late July, Origins is the only big convention in North America that the Pokemon TCG will hold events at. GenCon falls on the same date as Worlds. There are many here who always schedule at least one trip to a Convention. I've gone with Heidi Craig, her family, and friends since Origins 02 around the globe for Pokemon events. We're going again to Origins and we are attending either the Central or Eastern Stadium Challenge. Regardless of if it is a Nationals or a Stadium, we're still going to attend one convention, Origins.

Besides, if Nationals wasnt at Origins, someone would complain about that. You guys just have to understand that as much as you would like your local players to take the title and trip, there will be others attending who have the same ambitions. When judging and organizing event, discouraging other players from foreign locations, either financially or with such debates on here, is bad and hurts your chances for organizing future events. If you can attend Nationals, great, I would not complain about something that cannot (at this late point in the year) be changed, aside from the chance that POP would hold another trip package tournament at Origins.
-Phil

[FireFighter095ReBorn]

BDS is right. Number of trips should depend on attendance. How can you say a 13 person tournamnt gets 2 trips. Thats pathetic. If you give 1 trip the attendance should be between 10-20 and 2 trips for 20+ people so they are given for a true tournamnt. I like the way BDS thinks. :D

[yoshi1001]

Phil: I never said that people wouldn't travel to get to a SC. I said more people would travel for Nationzals than a SC.

"If history continues, Origins will not draw many locals, simply because of the large price of admission and other fees associated with attending the convention (parking, food, etc)."

Thank you for helping me illustrate the above point. ;)

[BJJ763]

Do State Champions get a 2 Round Bye at Stadium Challenges? If not National cannot be consider the North SC. Will there be an entrance fee to get into the SC? And then a tournament entry fee? If not, Nationals cannot be called the North SC. Two completely different entities. SC = an entire day dedicated to a Pokémon tournament. Nationals = an event that occurs during a weekend of gaming. Just so happens the outcome of both are the same.

All oranges are fruits. All apples are fruits. Oranges are not apples.

Would like a real North SC.

[Flare Starfire]

Just reposting the data for reference here- Stadium Challenges and Nationals -aren't- quite the same as far as prize structure goes, unless this is a typo:

The World Championships Invitational structure is:
Top player from each age group at Pokémon TCG Gym Challenges
Top four players from each age group at Pokémon TCG Stadium Challenges
Top four players from each age group at the Pokémon TCG National Championships
Top sixteen ranked players in the Pokémon Organized Play rankings database as of July 20th, 2004.
Last chance tournament on Friday, August 20th at Disney World, Orlando.
Winners from the last World Championship event will receive automatic invites to the next World Championships.
In addition to invites, many players will also win travel and accommodations for themselves and a guest (for players under 18 years of age, this guest must be a legal guardian) to the World Championships. Travel awards are awarded as follows:
Top player from each age group at Pokémon TCG Gym Challenges
Top two finishers from each age group at Pokémon TCG Stadium Challenges
Top two finishers at the National Championships
Winners from previous World Championships are eligible for travel awards only if Pokémon Organized Play is able to confirm their attendance in advance


What I would take this to mean is that whereas in a stadium challenge, theres 6 trips to give out, 2 each to each of the age groups, at Nationals (a more significant event, isn't it??) theres only 2. So if the top 2 finishers are 15+, the other groups get nothing? Hopefully someone can clarify this, because it doesn't quite seem right to pull more people for a world tournament using regional tournaments after having run the City/State/National chain...

As far as a north stadium itself goes, I agree that a national environment and a regional environment are two different tournaments and should be treated as such, not counted as the same. As for having it "where the best players are", that is a matter of somebodys personal opinion and isn't very influential as such. Just gotta have it in a place where lots of people can get to it.

Too bad I won't be able to make the east coast stadium...the timing is way too close to origins, so all I get is nationals anyways. But it's kinda funny to think that winning a gym challenge (Good ol trusty TJs! Thank goodness!) will accomplish the same thing as being in the Top 2 for Nationals.

Just food for thought.