|04/15/2004, 11:21 AM||#1|
Road to States: Fiery Doom
Alright, here is the second deck:
Fiery Doom v. 1.0
4x Team Magma's Houndour (Kick Away)
4x Team Magma's Houndoom (Magma Spurt)
3x Team Magma's Conspirator
4x Fast Ball
45x Fire Energies
This deck isn't a joke. I playtested against Psychodad's version of Aqua deck, BAR, Gardy, and more. It is quite effective, meaning it can compete well in win-loss ratios with respect to all the top tier decks. The Kick Away TM's Houndour was an easy choice - disrupting the Dunsparce "sacrificial" Pokemon strategy to KO something important, such as a Torchic. Of course, you don't have to Kick Away all the time, but it acts as an automatic Warp Point.
The rest is self-explantory. I maximize the chance to pull TM's Houndoom by turn 3, and maximize the chance to do 150 Fire damage. In other words, I compromise between the two. Also, I compromise to get out multiple TM Houndours and TM Houndooms - ideally 3 per match. These are the main points to keep in mind.
Again, please offer any suggestions and comments. Thank you.
Last edited by wilhung53; 04/15/2004 at 11:21 AM.
|04/15/2004, 11:28 AM||#3|
Well I'll say I have not tried this deck but it sounds very good actually. I would only suggest to add in Town Volunteers. I mean you can only do the attack 9 times before you deck.
|04/15/2004, 11:40 AM||#5|
you only have to do the attack 6 or less times though, as its basically an auto-ko every shot.
It seems like it could beat a bunch of stuff, but not so much the top tier decks... can't they just rayquazza you're houndoom with a Multi/Fire before you get another Houndoom up and running? Same geos for a few other decks that are real fast, but maybe I'm wrong.
I can't really offer a fix, as there's not a whole lot that would seem viable to change... maybe some little attacker to provoke their main pokemon up?
|04/15/2004, 12:02 PM||#6|
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
Now, I've been playtesting similar ideas from newer/not-yet released Japanese sets (ie ADV 6), and one thing I've noticed is that, while it won't be too hard for you to KO their guys, it won't be too hard for them, either.
I see it doing very well against BAR decks/a few water variants, but you seriously just need to watch out for Niniken, if it's played in your area. Other than the Blaziken ex's, it matches you prize-for-prize, so you would inevitably tire out before it. Great deck idea for fun and serious play!
Recent Tournament Placement:
1st place, 2003 Sandstorm Prerelease (UNDEFEATED)
18th place: Fall 2012 Tomball Battle Road (3-3)
23rd place: 2007 Oklahoma State Championship (2-3)
|04/15/2004, 01:00 PM||#7|
I really see a huge flaw in this deck for one the lack of basics... you're gonna mulligan many times before getting a Houndour more than likely... giving your opponent a huge advantage by having a huge hand....you're gonna get stuck very often with a hand full of energy... with 4 basic you're not likely to find another one that quick... you have 7 trainers and 45 energy you're gonna have no speed at all. You're really not. If you get stuck with just a Houndour and 6 fires in your hand you're gonna be waiting to top deck a Houndoom or fast ball or what ever. Basically... you have to go through 6 Pokemon for sure, the maximum your opponent has to get is 4. Someone could just get a rayquaza second turn with a fire/multi and win... I dunno if I'd like to take a chance at losing like that but, if the deck works for you go for it but I think you're gonna have this problem a lot.
|04/15/2004, 01:09 PM||#8|
Your a little Late. Here's one I posted and have been playing with for awhile. Nice to see someone with the same type of concept though, it's a great deck to have fun with...
4x Aqua Zangoose
2x Entei Ex(Maybe) still like Torkoal also like the Fossils
4x Magma Houndour(Combuskin/Singe)
4x Magma Houndoom(Magma Spurt)
4x Fast Ball
3x Prof Elms Training Method
Energy: 35 Fire
Zangoose and call for Family. Everythings Magma so if need be attack with full bench for 60, colorless attack bye bye Ray.
Torkoal-Screw with there Deck. Love discarding precious needs of my opponent in to the discard pile.
Entei Ex-Nice supporting cast if used
Houndoom is the Bread & Butter. HP is low for a main hitter but set up is quick and potential damage(36 Energy after all) is awesome... Roasting Heat also comes in handy when that 150 isn't quite needed this turn.
Not the most potent deck you'll ever face but it works and it works fast and with such a minimal amount of other cards clogging my deck 120 damage is the average.
Weakness to almost total water sucks but the speed has made up for it.
|04/15/2004, 01:10 PM||#9|
The fragile nature of this deck worries me quite a bit. I'd estimate that, on average, you'd mulligan 2-3 times per match. Now, that's not always going to happen; you could start out with a houndour or two on your first draw, but the odds of that aren't high. Thus, you have to acknowledge that you'll be starting the bulk of your games at a disadvantage; whether it be in cards, or through the fact that you lack any sort of significant draw or recovery power. Also, it will take you 3 turns to realize your main attack, even if you get set up quickly and effectively (3 energy attaches to use magma spurt). Combusken, for example, can knock out a houndour in 2 turns. Rayquaza with a multi can knock out a houndoom in 2 turns. Wobbuffett hits for 50 on turn two, assuming either a gardevoir on the bench or a boost after evolving from wynaut. Those are not normally strategies those two powerhouse decks employ, but they will when they see what you're playing. I'd go with your previously posted deck. There's just too many question marks, and too much at stake in states, to play this. That being said, to help the deck:
-Magma ball instead of fast ball: having one basic is just too dicey for me to suggest playing with, and you'll be there more often than you'll have your three guys on the bench. This one lets you automatically get the basic, and have the potential to get the evo, too.
-Drop the conspirator and one energy, and add 4 magma's zangoose. It's a backup hitter that can OHKO rayquaza without discard, and will get your basics for you early game. It'll also reduce your mulligans. Conspirator will get you a few basics, but if you only have four basics in the deck, and assuming you start with one basic, after you use the first conspirator the rest become essentially useless in the deck (since you've got the three out already). You're not going to be grabbing energy with the conspirator, I assume....you'll never run out of energy....
-Really hard to not suggest running at least one town volunteers. Sure, you'll probably just discard it with your attack, but it'd make the difference late game if you had one in the hand from the start....
Also, just to show you the math:
60 to start....
6 prizes (47)
Draw card (46)
Use conspirator (44)
Draw card (43)
Use fast ball/magma ball (42)
Draw card (41)
Magma spurt (36)
Draw card (40)
Magma spurt (35)
Draw card (34)
Magma spurt (29)
Draw card (28)
Magma spurt (23)
Draw card (22)
Magma spurt (17)
Draw card (16)
Magma spurt (11)
Draw card (10)
Magma spurt (5)
Draw card (4)
Magma spurt (0)
Kyogre was a bit off in his calculations: you only get 8 spurts before decking, and that's assuming you only use 2 of your seven trainers. Further, the last magma spurt is only powered by 4 cards, not five. Of course, this is if everything goes perfectly, too. Now, you know you're not going to get 5 energies each time you spurt, and there's a decent chance you'll only get around 3/5: not enough to ko a gardevoir, blaziken, rayquaza, or swampert, and certainly not enough to get rid of a gardevoir -ex, blaziken -ex, swampert -ex, or ampharos -ex. Also, if your rhythm is interrupted at all (via a dunsparce paralysis, for example), your deck suffers horribly: every turn you don't magma spurt after the third turn is one card fewer that you have to power the attack. In short, I think decks of this nature are fun, but you're not going to win the five or six games necessary to top 8 at states, and you're certainly not going to win 3 straight games of best 2-of-3, particularly once your opponent sees your strategy. You may get the jump on them once, and you may win 3 or 4 games with this (assuming you have good luck), but unless there's something about your local play environment that would make this viable, I'd avoid it. Good luck at states.
Den-droh-bah-tih-duh. Stress on the bah.
|04/15/2004, 01:58 PM||#11|
I wonder how it would work if you added in some Fishermen and an AQ Sentret line, and/or some Town Volunteers. In theory, both would (or at least could) help you get some more Magma Spurts. You may want to consider trying it. I don't know that it'll work, but who knows?
Every time I think I can't say anything stupider, I prove myself wrong. Maybe I should just stop thinking.
There's an exception to every rule, except this one. This one has two.
|04/15/2004, 02:20 PM||#12|
I definately wouldn't recommend the Town Volunteers, the chance to discard it with Houndoom is much higher than the chance to draw it, so fire is more useful in many ways.
Also, using the Deckulator (assuming I calculated it right), you are gonna have a 77% chance to get 3 fire and 1(way to search for) Houndoom by turn 3. That chance is surprisingly big, but it does mean once every four games you won't have this combination by turn 3, which would be really hard to recover from. Same thing with an early Desert Shaman.
Still, I would definately recommend this deck, because it's something fresh, you can't say that much these days.
Consider Oracle instead of Conspirator too, the only time Oracle is worse than Conspirator is when you know you are gonna die next turn and you need a Houndour on your bench stay alive :P
Last edited by St0neh; 04/15/2004 at 02:21 PM.
|04/15/2004, 02:27 PM||#13|
Every single one of these points are very good. If you want more feedback, look @ lugia_realms post - we all made several more comments over here.
Find me in the Pojo IRC.
|04/15/2004, 07:21 PM||#17|
Find me in the Pojo IRC.
Last edited by Hero; 04/15/2004 at 07:23 PM.
|04/15/2004, 08:08 PM||#18|
[QUOTE=YoungJohn06]I really see a huge flaw in this deck for one the lack of basics... you're gonna mulligan many times before getting a Houndour more than likely... giving your opponent a huge advantage by having a huge hand....you're gonna get stuck very often with a hand full of energy... with 4 basic you're not likely to find another one that quick... QUOTE]
Ahhh - it seems weird but the thing can actually work. I built one of these for fun because it reminded me of my old Blaine's Magmar deck. I personally limited my deck to 36 NRG giving me a bit more room for those necessary trainers to get the pokemon out and thin the deck. The nice thing about B.Magmar was it was a basic. Anyway - these kind of decks are fun as all getout - pretty funny the looks you see on your opponents face when you burn 'em to a crisp using a completely banzai attack :D
|04/16/2004, 04:26 AM||#20|
I thought this was a great fun idea...so I made it up after seing it in another posting.
Way to often pulling only one poke to start and a loss in a quick game.
Swampert ate it up in turn two.
But in another game it did win.
pulling over 4 energy on a blaze ex was cool
But do you have to flip all cards over? Deck yourself is possible.
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