MMF...Metagross/Milotic/Furret = Mizage

[Jim Ferrell]

Prompted from my other post, "Out of the Shadows," here is my other deck that I had laid hinting at. It's very, very powerful and covers itself nicely against weakness and everything.

MMF
Modified Format³

Pokemon: 23
4 Beldum (Call For Family)
3 Metang (Levitate)
4 Metagross (Hidden Legends)
4 Dunsparce (Sandstorm)
2 Feebas
2 Milotic
2 Sentret (Aquapolis)
2 Furret (Aquapolis)

Energy: 16
4 Metal
4 Double Rainbow
3 Rainbow
3 Psychic/Water
2 Warp

Trainers: 21
4 Steven's Advice
4 Copycat
3 Rare Candy
3 Professor Elm's Training Method
2 Oracle
2 Mr. Briney's Compassion
2 Desert Ruins
1 Switch/Warp Point

Here's also another variation to help with resistance, give extra power, etc:
-2 Desert Ruins
-2 Mr. Briney's Compassion
-1 Metagross
-1 PETM
-1 Psychic/Water Energy

+2 Magnetic Storm
+2 Pokemon Nurse
+1 Metagross ex
+1 Island Cave
+1 Warp Energy

Strategy: This deck is pure beatdown. With the Call for Family Beldum, if you don't start with Dunsparce, you can fish for it, retreat and boom. The Metang doesn't matter that much. I suppose you COULD use the Metal Load one since I play no recovery whatsoever, but free retreat is so sexy. Milotic is anti-fire and healing. I mean, a Metagross with a DRE, and a 2-3 Metal is pretty sick. And then you remove 80 damage off of it? Yeah, broken. Compassion is a healer, and lets me reuse Milotic for even more healing. The name of the game is Metal Juncture, move the Metals, Rainbows, and DREs around and just let the beatdown commence. As far as the other version, it helps versus Shiftry and just dealing more damage in general.

Thoughts?

~Jim

[Physics Squirrel]

Sounds good. Especially against decks that can't do much damage.

[dld4a]

That's pretty close to the version I made, but Jirachi and friend ball are really good choices for this deck. However in the end Blaziken easily owns it, and Gardy/Gorbys runs over it pretty good too.

[SuperWooper]

Originally Posted by dld4a

That's pretty close to the version I made, but Jirachi and friend ball are really good choices for this deck. However in the end Blaziken easily owns it, and Gardy/Gorbys runs over it pretty good too.

Incorrect. Any Gardy deck is flattened by HL Metagross. Resistance to psychic. In the event that Jim's up against a Gardy deck, he's obviously not going to play Magnetic Storm, and he'll use Hidden Legends Metagross and keep the energy at a minimum so Gorebyss doesn't take advantage of the psychic energy on his side. Milotic for healing, and Gorebyss is a relatively small threat.

Blaziken has a better shot at the deck. Milotic does a lot of the attacking here, but with just a 2-2 line, good luck keeping them alive too long. Just swarm Feebas early and build fairly evenly (as much as possible), then pull Milotic w/ a PETM out of nowhere and put the smack down on a Blaziken/ex that's come out as an early threat.

Jim, you have an awful lot of searching. 2 Oracle and 3 PETM is pretty heavy. I used 3 PETM in my Aggron ex/Wailord/Furret deck way back when I played it, but no Oracle, and it seemed to work for me. More speed is necessary since other decks have gotten speedier, I know, but are 2 Oracle and 3 PETM really needed? I suggest dropping either 1 PETM or 2 Oracle, whichever you think you can get away with and keep the deck running fast. A third Desert Ruins would be nice, and maybe you could think about Birch. (nice w/ Furret) If 5 searching cards are okay for you though, and you don't usually find yourself with them clogging up your hand, then keep them like they are.

Keep thinking,
~Wooper

[Cyrus]

Excellent deck, Jim. I've been playtesting the same thing, and Furret is key to this doing well. I rarely say this, but I think Furret and Milotic is a psuedo-broken combo, getting things charged fast, and pwning right away.. Added with Metagross is just sheer beatdown.

Yes Wooper, Method is vital to the deck. You need furret out, and fast. Don't know if 3 is necessary, but 3 is like having 5 furrets in the deck. Not bad, yo ;x

An idea I have been toying with is getting off of Dunsparce reliance, and just go 3-3 milo+ fan clubs. Just an idea, and I'm honestly liking it less, but still, it's worth giving a shot.

Also, have you given Birch a shot? Just 'cause steven is out doesn't mean it's bad with Furret. Why, Birch n' Steve play off of each other well! =P

[Whicker]

yeah, try out Birch
it pwns in a deck with Furret
I love the deck
Blaze will own it, because 2-2 Miltoic won't cut it
especially a RAMBO with countergyms, but this will beat anything else

[psycodad]

Hey Jim
My son & I played meta @ Nats. Your healing is an interesting twist. I''ll have to test it out. While meta is a good deck there are several decks(a few are popular) in this format that gives it fits. Test enough and you will see which ones they are. What a super format.

[Cyrus]

Hehe, so I see you took the name idea I gave you! ;)

[Prime]

I like Metagross alot, but I found that it just couldn't keep up with the major decks in this modified. Each big deck have one simple fact in common, the ability to lay large amounts of energy in short number of turns. Swampert, Gardevior, and Blaziken. Metagross, though it can stand up to the damage these decks do, cannot equal the setup speed of them, and IMHO, that is what wins the games. What do you do when your opponent uses gardevior, and lays two energy a turn while your laying one energy at max? After 4 turns, they have two pokemon fully powered while you are just finishing laying the last steel on your metagross. I'm not trying to bash the deck, I really like metagross.

Now you could put in Gorebyss, which would give you a good shot against Gardevior, resistance, healing with milotic, and energy advantage with gorebyss. But if you don't, I just see a gardy player laying a magnetic storm and dealing the metagross some major damage. Next turn, your forced to milotic the damage, and heal them, or briney the metagross, and be placed further behind setup wise than your opponent.

But that's against gardy. Against blaziken, you better get out the milotic fast, or the blaze will eat the metagross. This deck can beat blaze if it doesn't knock out the two things stopping it, or the one thing if the other milotic is in the prizes.

Against Swampert, I really have no idea how the game would go.

Anyways, watch out for fast gardy decks that get setup, turn 2, turn 3 almost always, and good luck with the deck.

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

I do like Metagross and it can compete in this format. Although it doesn't attach more than 1 nrg per turn the Metal Juncture power is so nice. The big thing that makes it much quicker than the old Nrg Trans like decks is with DRE you essentially have a psychic resistant to psychic that can do 50 for TWO nrg, and the power. Unless a Gard player is playing a couple more Storm than your counter gyms, you should win pretty easily. Gards with Gorebyss have a better shot but not too good of a shot. If your playing against the classic Gard with 1 or 0 Magnetic Storm and only Psychic pokemon, you have it pretty much won. Beating Blaze is the real trick, Milotic and Gorebyss both have a decent shot. I tried the more resources need Salamence/Metagross at the WCSC which took 6th. While Salamence might be the best when it gets up and going to beat Blaze, in the top 8 the strain of two stage 2's finally caught up I think.
Gymbo definately play 4 Rainbow, the 10 damage is hardly ever a problem. I usually just play it on a Dunsparce and Metal Juncture it active. Of your two options I like kind of a mix of both. I would play the 1 Metagross ex but I still like Ruins since it puts BEX in range of being ko'd by Psy Metagross. I also like Nurse over Briney since it can be two long turns if you want to use it on Metagross w/out Candy back-up. Don't underestimate the Magnetic Call Beldum (the flip power) if you just start with Sparce, you can search out 1 Feebas, 1 Sentret and 1 Beldum and rely on the Beldum to find the other 2 Beldum for a nice full bench. I like the Psychic Metang since a turn 2 50 is really easy with DRE. The attack places damage counters so it isn't reduced. I haven't tested the free retreat one but it is an idea. GL with this.

[Cyrus]

Prime, Gardevoir gets its butt handed to it by any 'Gross variant, unless the person running the Gross variant is just an outright fool, or gets extremely unlucky.

-Weakness advantage
-Resistence advantage
-Metal Energy negating another addition to psystorm/bulking up 'gross
-The ability to OHKO every non-ex pokemon in their deck (if your flips don't suck =P), so that you can almost always healing shower with little to no worries.

T2/T3 nothing.

[Prime]

Don't go out on the line and give the metagross deck the instant win. Remember, Gardy took 1st, 3rd, and 5th at Nationals when Metagross didn't even make it in the top 8. Maybe on paper metagross seems to have the key to taking down GEX decks, but paper doesn't show the truth, tournaments do.

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

Originally Posted by Prime

Don't go out on the line and give the metagross deck the instant win. Remember, Gardy took 1st, 3rd, and 5th at Nationals when Metagross didn't even make it in the top 8. Maybe on paper metagross seems to have the key to taking down GEX decks, but paper doesn't show the truth, tournaments do.

I have played and tested Metagross against Gardevoir. This has not just been proven with paper but testing. It is 75/25 in Meta's favor at Meta's worst. Don't use tourney placements to prove matchups. Metagross was just introduced before Nationals. Did those Gardevoirs beat Metagross to take 1st, 3rd and 5th at Nationals? Not if I remember correctly.

[psycodad]

Patriarch
I lost to gardy @ Nationals with Gross. I guess I'm a fool, although one nrg all game and 1 draw card may have contributed. Actually, it was my first loss to gady with the deck.

[Freddy K.]

Hey Gymbo,

I really think that something else needs to get in there for Shiftry other than two Magnetic Storm. The ideas stated so far have been more than interesting w.r.t. the reliance on Dunsparce. Dunsparce just helps vs. Fire decks when you want to fill your bench w/ w/e Water counter you have in the deck. In the Feebas/Milotic option that you have it'd be quite tough to guarantee that you have a W energy or equivalent in the hand for a guaranteed ascension, making bad starts common place. So I would hasten to keep Dunsparce in, or at least maybe drop one as you have 4 Beldum which aer pretty much mini-Dunsparces themselves and can find one instantly.

Pidgetto Trainer is right, this deck must have 4 Rainbow. Nurse over Briney is a good option but it's pretty close, the extra turn can kick back if you use Briney but sometimes I find that the bench is just 'too full' if you know what I mean.. plus if Furret can't come out then Compassion can maybe help a little more... I'd rather trans the Metals around than have to lay them down again, but there is also the advantage w/ Compassion of recycling your Warp Energies. A fine point that playtesting both will help form a conclusion.

Whicker - Birch may help on paper but I've found that your hand is more than 5 or so most of the time, EXCEPT when you need Birch the most.. I've tried it and it didn't work, it failed miserably to be honest. I accept Patriarch's point but you can't Steven's and then Birch, which is what I find happens.

Gymbo - the weakness in the deck as I see it is that if BEX takes down the Water guys (Feebas) early w/ Volcanic Ash you may find that you can't use Water anymore... I understand that you'd probably KO the BEX w/ Gross at that point but Blaze Swarms would overcome your Fire weak stuff and you'd be forced to use all the energies you have in play at that point on what you have Active. A Town Volunteers may help but what also may help is upping the water Stage 1 line to 3-3, and trimming your Furret to 1-1 maybe. It's risky but worth a shot - play it like a TAM line.

I hope someone contributes a consistent viable strategy in this deck for playing versus Shiftry, which this type deck at the moment sits behind on the #2 spot of MMF decks. If someone can counter the Shiftry Enigma and maintain speed as those Shiftry decks are fast as fudge then they'll walk away with the World Championship title IMHO.

~fK

[JasonthePwnda]

Originally Posted by Prime

Now you could put in Gorebyss, which would give you a good shot against Gardevior, resistance, healing with milotic, and energy advantage with gorebyss. But if you don't, I just see a gardy player laying a magnetic storm and dealing the metagross some major damage. Next turn, your forced to milotic the damage, and heal them, or briney the metagross, and be placed further behind setup wise than your opponent.

Prime, i tihnk your n00bishness cannot understand what metagross is, or what the point of the deck is. anyway, metagross sucks, dont play it.

[dld4a]

Originally Posted by Pidgeotto Trainer

I have played and tested Metagross against Gardevoir. This has not just been proven with paper but testing. It is 75/25 in Meta's favor at Meta's worst. Don't use tourney placements to prove matchups. Metagross was just introduced before Nationals. Did those Gardevoirs beat Metagross to take 1st, 3rd and 5th at Nationals? Not if I remember correctly.

Seems to me that Gorbys and Metagross are from the same set. Gorebyss can OHKO Metagross w/ 4 metal on it and once your metal are gone your done, you won't be able to get them back fast enough.

[Jim Ferrell]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all zee replies. Also, please do not go flaming people about "n00bness" and junk like that. I reeeeeally dislike it when my posts may be locked because of stuff like that. Upon consideration, like my other post, I upped the Milotic line. Here's what I've got now.

Pokemon: 24
4 Beldum (Call For Family)
3 Metang (Levitate)
4 Metagross (Hidden Legends)
3 Feebas
3 Milotic
3 Dunsparce (Sandstorm)
2 Sentret (Aquapolis)
2 Furret (Aquapolis)

Energy: 16
4 Metal
4 Double Rainbow
4 Rainbow
2 Psychic
2 Warp

Trainers: 20
4 Steven's Advice
4 Copycat
3 Rare Candy
3 Desert Ruins
2 Professor Elm's Training Method
2 Oracle
2 Switch

Biggest change, I dropped Briney totally. Now you may be thinking "HOLY CRAP, WTF?" But, I added another Milotic, so that's another Healing Shower. When I dropped Compassion, I also added another Switch and another Desert Ruins. This makes Switching, then Metal Juncturing to Milotic or other Pokes a lot easier. I keep hearing from people, you LOSE if you BEX Volcanic Ashes your Feebas. Well, if BEX gets set up to Volcanic Ash, that's like gg anyways. But here's what I do to stop BEX. I hold a Feebas in my hand as well as a Rare Candy and Milotic. I will typically RC to Milotic, do all the energy moving and stuff and just KO them that way. It works, seriously. So yeah, there's the newest version of the deck.

~Jim

[SuperWooper]

Nobody plays Gorebyss in Gardevoir. -_- And besides, that would take like 12 psychic energy in play if Metagross had four metals on it. And since Metal Juncture can keep those metal energy in play for just about ever with the appropriate amount of switching, Gorebyss really won't be able to penetrate the wall that is Metagross.

[Prime]

Remember, that when you use a rare candy to evolve into milotic, milotic's power does not go off. Maybe everyone knows that, but it doesn't hurt to state it again for those that don't.

Pidgeotto Trainer: You have tested it out against the people around your area atleast, but how many times did you test it out against people at Nationals? Maybe in your area, your metagross can take down any gardy deck, but against gardy professionals, I feel the same might not occur.

I like the idea of this deck Gymbo, but I think it could be better. Adding in milotic to cover metagross's weakness is a nice touch. I just think that neither milotic nor metagross has the power to stand up to GEX or BEX or REX (damage wise). Milotic does 80 for 4, but then next turn heals and does it again, making it only do 50, not enough to knock out GEX or any EX with 140HP or more. And at the same time, milotic only has 100HP, so if an EX can deal 50 damage twice, in which most deal alot more, it's over for the milotic. Metagross is very flippy. If your odds are equal 50/50, you only deal 60 for 3, which isn't much against a 140/150HP EX.

You do have the gym on your side, but again, it's only 20 damage each turn.

I really don't like furret. Maybe it was l33t back before the EX's came, but now, the game is all setup. Sure, you get those special energy cards when you need them, but it also lowers your hand alot. Not only that, but once you have your energy you need, it's useless. Okay, it can deal 60 to rayquaza, then get OHKO'd. I just think that gorebyss is a much better idea. With enough draw, or searching, you could equal the furret's power. But in the end, gorebyss helps out against fire (with help from milotic), helps out against gardy (with help from metagross), and turns the deck into a well round anti-metagame deck. I mean, people have been looking for a deck that could contend with gardy and blaze and I feel Milotic/Metagross/Gorebyss could be that one.

Anyways, good luck with the deck.

[dld4a]

Originally Posted by SuperWooper

Nobody plays Gorebyss in Gardevoir. -_- And besides, that would take like 12 psychic energy in play if Metagross had four metals on it. And since Metal Juncture can keep those metal energy in play for just about ever with the appropriate amount of switching, Gorebyss really won't be able to penetrate the wall that is Metagross.

Gorbyss counts all those rainbow and double rainbow that you have in play.

Jim- I know this will sound weird but Multi works in this deck also. You can move it , you just have to move it last. Make sure you don't attach 2 multi to the same Poke though.

[Pidgeotto Trainer]

Originally Posted by Prime

Pidgeotto Trainer: You have tested it out against the people around your area atleast, but how many times did you test it out against people at Nationals? Maybe in your area, your metagross can take down any gardy deck, but against gardy professionals, I feel the same might not occur.

Ugh, Prime I don't mean to flame you or anything but you really seem like you don't know the first clue about Metagross vs. Gardevoir. I crush Gard in my area, I crushed Gard at the WCSC, I crush Gard in my testing. If my testing isn't proving anything then why are you the only one who isn't convinced Metagross beats Gard? Metagross beats Gardevoir on paper, in testing and in tournaments. Now the only thing that really gives Gard a chance is Gorebyss. Yes Wooper, Gorebyss in Gardevoir. ;) It does give an advantage to Gard since it won't get ohko'd by Gross most likely (always assume Gross to get 2 heads IMO) while everything else but GEX is ohko'd. Gorebyss is also the only thing to not be resisted by Gross. Even with Gorebyss, Gross should have a serious advantage vs. Gardevoir. Gorebyss has few enough HP that Milotic or Meta's Gorebyss can ko it and then if the Gard player is left with Psy stuff vs. Metagross, GG. The classic Naut/Wob/Gard/GEX decks just lose to Gross pretty badly if Gross gets any kind of setup. Feedback can usually 2-hit ko Gross but Gross will almost always atleast 2-hit ko GEX (with the occasional ohko that Gex won't get). When you have an ex going toe -to-toe with a non-ex and nothing else in the ex's deck can touch the non-ex you know what will happen.
did4a- As I have pointed out you are correct Gorebyss helps in Garde, but you should watch a good Metagross sometime soon because they will hardly ever have 4 Metals. It isn't like the old Metal decks, you can't sit behind a 4-Metaled poke like you used too.

[DarkSideComma S.P.A.R.K.S]

Try out Linoone and Powercharge in your Metagross deck. Linoone's seek out is an attack... but you get 2 cards, that could mean your energy, evos, trainers, anything you may need.

[Cyrus]

omg Psychodad, you're not a fool. IMO, just a poor setup is what did you in, aka luck, which I mention. Metagross' record to Gardevoir is like Blaze's record at the very worst. At the best, it's a shoe-in for the 'Gross, even with magnetic storm in play.

However, when I see Chad, Ross (Pidgeotto, that's you right? ;x), and Chris Fulop do so well in MORE than nationals, that's also telling you something. 1st, 3rd, and 5th at nationals is a factor largely in part of metagross just not being a factor. When SSC rolled around, it proved that Gardevoir just got inflated acclaim after Nationals. It made 2nd, 12th, and 14th (I don't remember any other gards other than Robert, Kevin, and Daniel's). At WSC and ESC, Gardevoir didn't even make T4.

In short, nothing is finished. Blaziken and Gardevoir are all still viable. It's just that they aren't the kings like they used to be.

[Pablo]

Gymbo go to Neo and look at my Metagross deck post, you may get some good ideas for there, I was also testing Metagross/Milotic, it just never worked for me :( still check it out tho, u never know when something might cross ur mind