Bee-serker (Vespiqueen/Cherim build). Can I have some feedback?

ArmoredMewtwo · 01/11/2009, 10:39 PM

Pokemon- 20
4 Cherim SF
4 Cherubi SF
4 Combee SF
4 Vespiqueen SF
2 Sableye SF
2 Unown G GE

Energies- 16
14 Grass Energy (You shouldn't need any more)
2 Call Energy

Trainers- 24
4 Roseanne's Research
3 Buck's Training
3 Bebe's Search
2 Felecity's Drawing
2 Night Maintenance
2 Cynthia's Feelings
2 Energy Restore
2 Dawn Stadium
2 Dusk Ball
1 Luxury Ball
1 Speed Stadium

This deck seems to be a modification of the Scizrim deck.

The strategy of this deck is simple: get out at least one Vespiqueen and as many Cherim as possible to do high damage to the enemy. Cherim's Sunny Day amplifies the attack power of all Grass Types by putting on 10 extra damage, and its effect can be stacked. As for Vespiqueen, its attacks do 10 more damage times the number of grass pokemon on your bench, assuming you have more prizes than your opponent. That means that (best-case scenario) you could be doing up to 100 Damage with just one energy, 130 (with potential burn, poison, and paralyze) with two. That's the magic number that kills most strong pokemon, and the burn/poison/paralyze combo can make Dusknoir Lv. X die if you somehow manage to slam it before any other damage is put on it.

And I need to correct this. With the additional slot still open, that means you can do 110 Damage (and healing) or 140 Damage with the potential effects!

Getting pokemon on the bench is made simple through Sableye and Combee. Sableye can search the deck for Pokemon, which can either be placed on the bench or discarded for Felecity's. If the latter is the case, the pokemon (assuming it is a basic) can be revived when you place Combee on the bench, due to the effect of Honey. Ergo, you lose nothing.

Unown G and the stadiums are this deck's tech. Unown G... Well, it's Unown G. I'd be crazy not to use it in this deck. The stadiums, though useful in their own right, are more or less counter-Dusknoir Lv. X Tech.

So, go ahead and offer what advice you have.

Mystic Metal · 01/12/2009, 05:23 AM

How about 4 call energy
and 4 bebes?

nice idea

ArmoredMewtwo · 01/12/2009, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Metal

How about 4 call energy
and 4 bebes?

nice idea

4 Call would be a bit overkill, and 4 Bebe's wouldn't have much use. I've run a few tests on this deck, and I don't tend to use all of the Bebe's before I get out a few Cherim and one Vespiqueen.

I need to test against more deck types, and possibly against other players (through Redshark, maybe?)...

Rob-GAJP · 01/12/2009, 08:44 AM

I'be built this deck for my kids also ( great fun to play Vespy vs. Siczor or Beedril decks ) and made some findings. If you want to try and make it a competition deck , you need to assume a few things and build the deck around it : Dusknoir, Gengar & gang are loose, so you need to test run the deck using only 3 spaces in the bench and 1 attacking Vespy , so bench space is king, and with only 2 sableyes chances are you may or may not get them to start with, also using up critical card space. Even if you start with them, then they would only use up bench space and can't attack or do nothing. I would suggest taking them out. Add another 2 Unown G's to protect as many guys as possible. You'll need them.
I also run speed stadium and this has saved me many games, so run 2 instead , and drop the Dawns. Vespy's Bee Drain takes care of its own healing , and you'll have 2 Stadiums to counter Dusky X.
Call Energies is a double-edged sword ... if you don't get 1 of them in the first turn , later on in the game they're just energy, so either I run 4 or nothing. In this particular case, and based on the next trainer suggestions, I would run none and leave the energy at 14 greens.
Now the trainer line :
- Max out the Bebe's and Cynthia's Feelings ( this last one critical in these kinds of decks with no Claydol )
- Change the Bucks for 4 plus powers, so you can have the effect and still use a supporter on that turn if needed
- You don't want to discard anything so change the felicities for as many as you can get of ( in this order ) or Quick Balls, Poke Balls and Poke Radars / Dusk Balls ( 20 Pokes is not a high numbers to grant draw from Radars )
- Take out the Energy Restore to make space for the cards above.

Hope this helps & good luck.

ArmoredMewtwo · 01/12/2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob-GAJP

I'be built this deck for my kids also ( great fun to play Vespy vs. Siczor or Beedril decks ) and made some findings. If you want to try and make it a competition deck , you need to assume a few things and build the deck around it : Dusknoir, Gengar & gang are loose, so you need to test run the deck using only 3 spaces in the bench and 1 attacking Vespy , so bench space is king, and with only 2 sableyes chances are you may or may not get them to start with, also using up critical card space. Even if you start with them, then they would only use up bench space and can't attack or do nothing. I would suggest taking them out. Add another 2 Unown G's to protect as many guys as possible. You'll need them.

I've taken that into consideration (the fact I may face Dusknoir/Gengar), which is why I'm keeping both Sableye in my deck. Even with only 2, getting one out to mill trainers out of the deck is almost an inevitability (oddly enough, I've never double-prized them yet). I have no idea what you're talking about when you say I couldn't attack with them or do 'nothing', as they are perhaps the simplest of cards to use and (since their attacks do no damage to either) I wouldn't be risking much of anything. Plus, it gives me damage-fodder until I can bring up something else.

Adding two more Unown G's in this build would be pointless, simply for the reason you mentioned. Getting four Unown G's can be inconvenient at times, as a lot of decks do straight-forward damage rather than counters, effects, etc. I'm not making this thing a complete Machamp/Dusknoir/Gengar counter.

Quote:

I also run speed stadium and this has saved me many games, so run 2 instead , and drop the Dawns. Vespy's Bee Drain takes care of its own healing , and you'll have 2 Stadiums to counter Dusky X.
Call Energies is a double-edged sword ... if you don't get 1 of them in the first turn , later on in the game they're just energy, so either I run 4 or nothing. In this particular case, and based on the next trainer suggestions, I would run none and leave the energy at 14 greens.
Now the trainer line :
- Max out the Bebe's and Cynthia's Feelings ( this last one critical in these kinds of decks with no Claydol )
- Change the Bucks for 4 plus powers, so you can have the effect and still use a supporter on that turn if needed
- You don't want to discard anything so change the felicities for as many as you can get of ( in this order ) or Quick Balls, Poke Balls and Poke Radars / Dusk Balls ( 20 Pokes is not a high numbers to grant draw from Radars )
- Take out the Energy Restore to make space for the cards above.

Hope this helps & good luck.

The second Dawn Stadium was added in there mostly for the benefit of my Cherim, but you may be right about Speed Stadium.
Call Energy isn't really in there for anything but to fill up Bench Space when necessary. It serves the same purpose as SF Combee, really... But, since Vespy's not picky about one of its energies, I'm running one.
I won't be doing either of your first suggestions for the simple fact that Cynthia's shuffles your hand back into your deck, and it really isn't critical enough for me to do that every turn. I really don't want to do that too often in this build, and four would be redundant.
Bebe's tends to be a waste of space as is as I usually cycle through the deck quick enough to get what I need, anyway.
If you weren't paying attention earlier, check my first post for the note on Felecity's. Combee nulls your logic yet again. Poke Radar and Dusk Ball are the only things out of that group that I may consider, as Quick Ball tends to flop on people and Pokeball... Well, it's Pokeball. I never liked it.
Energy restore also nulls your logic on Felecity's, and is useful when I can't manage to draw any energy from the deck.

Zathaz · 01/12/2009, 09:27 PM

unknown R goes very well with combees honey tool. Retire draw play combee retire draw.....

*renfield89* · 01/12/2009, 10:48 PM

-2 Sableye SF
+2 Chatot MD

-2 Felicity's Drawing
-2 Dusk Ball
-2 Energy Restore
+1 Bebe's Search
+1 Buck's Training
+3 Quick Ball
+4 PlusPower

-2 Grass Energy

---
Chatot for hand refreshment/bad starts/free retreater; the rest for consistency and damage/healing.
Think about it! Hope you like it =]

-Renfield

ArmoredMewtwo · 01/13/2009, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renfield89

-2 Sableye SF
+2 Chatot MD

-2 Felicity's Drawing
-2 Dusk Ball
-2 Energy Restore
+1 Bebe's Search
+1 Buck's Training
+3 Quick Ball
+4 PlusPower

-2 Grass Energy

---
Chatot for hand refreshment/bad starts/free retreater; the rest for consistency and damage/healing.
Think about it! Hope you like it =]

-Renfield

Not bad... I'll give this one a run and see how it works.
Not so certain about the Quick Balls, though. I'd much rather run Poke Radar...
Also, why remove the Duskball only to add Quickball?
Duskball > Quickball, nine times out of ten.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathaz

unknown R goes very well with combees honey tool. Retire draw play combee retire draw.....

Interesting prospect...

*renfield89* · 01/13/2009, 07:30 AM

Quick Ball is a personal preference. Every Poke in the deck is useful at almost all times, so Quick Ball never failing is a plus. 20 Pokemon isn't a lot either; with 2 Vespiquen and two Cherrim in, you're down to only 12, lowering Dusk Ball's odds.

PokemansForGeeks · 01/13/2009, 08:22 AM

Pokemon- 19
4 Cherim SF
4 Cherubi SF
4 Combee SF
4 Vespiqueen SF
1 Chatot
2 Unown G GE

Energies- 13
11 Grass Energy (You shouldn't need any more)
2 Call Energy

Trainers- 28
4 Roseanne's Research
4 Bebe's Search
2 Felicity's Drawing
2 Night Maintenance
2 Cynthia's Feelings
3 Dawn Stadium (Dusk matchup)
3 Warp Point (for Gigas matchup)
1 Luxury Ball
3 Great Ball
4 Pokedex Handy 910

Please don't play dusk or quick ball. Dusk is terrible and quick ball almost always nets you something you don't need, better off maxing the bebe's and playing great ball for basics. You could also cut out the roseanne's for another great ball and some poke ball if you want.

*Jziffra* · 01/13/2009, 05:34 PM

I've seen it with Leafeon X, appeared to play well.

natizardblast · 01/14/2009, 03:10 PM

i used to play almost an exect copy of this deck. then upon realizing it sucked i mod. it to play a 4-4
scizor and only 2-2 vespy. it works really well because vespy becomes back up to use as a last
resort. in my deck it maxs out at 150. its amazing i useed it to ohko mutliple lv.X. problem with it is
that at most on average it maxs at 90 with a less than 25% cahnce of triple special condtion.
although to stand up for it, it can pull at least 60 off of its self, removing a possible 60on a 100 hp
pokemon can stall out for a while but its not enough to to t2 a kingdra or macahmp. and by the time
you can hit a dusknoir with twice it will most likly be lv.X, not very good. but yes i love the deck, its
a good deck for fun, but i dont think it would be tourny worthy deck.

01/11/2009, 10:39 PM	#1
ArmoredMewtwo Images: 2	Bee-serker (Vespiqueen/Cherim build). Can I have some feedback? Pokemon- 20 4 Cherim SF 4 Cherubi SF 4 Combee SF 4 Vespiqueen SF 2 Sableye SF 2 Unown G GE Energies- 16 14 Grass Energy (You shouldn't need any more) 2 Call Energy Trainers- 24 4 Roseanne's Research 3 Buck's Training 3 Bebe's Search 2 Felecity's Drawing 2 Night Maintenance 2 Cynthia's Feelings 2 Energy Restore 2 Dawn Stadium 2 Dusk Ball 1 Luxury Ball 1 Speed Stadium This deck seems to be a modification of the Scizrim deck. The strategy of this deck is simple: get out at least one Vespiqueen and as many Cherim as possible to do high damage to the enemy. Cherim's Sunny Day amplifies the attack power of all Grass Types by putting on 10 extra damage, and its effect can be stacked. As for Vespiqueen, its attacks do 10 more damage times the number of grass pokemon on your bench, assuming you have more prizes than your opponent. That means that (best-case scenario) you could be doing up to 100 Damage with just one energy, 130 (with potential burn, poison, and paralyze) with two. That's the magic number that kills most strong pokemon, and the burn/poison/paralyze combo can make Dusknoir Lv. X die if you somehow manage to slam it before any other damage is put on it. And I need to correct this. With the additional slot still open, that means you can do 110 Damage (and healing) or 140 Damage with the potential effects! Getting pokemon on the bench is made simple through Sableye and Combee. Sableye can search the deck for Pokemon, which can either be placed on the bench or discarded for Felecity's. If the latter is the case, the pokemon (assuming it is a basic) can be revived when you place Combee on the bench, due to the effect of Honey. Ergo, you lose nothing. Unown G and the stadiums are this deck's tech. Unown G... Well, it's Unown G. I'd be crazy not to use it in this deck. The stadiums, though useful in their own right, are more or less counter-Dusknoir Lv. X Tech. So, go ahead and offer what advice you have. Last edited by ArmoredMewtwo; 01/12/2009 at 06:37 AM. Reason: Counted my cards incorrectly...

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01/12/2009, 05:23 AM	#2
Mystic Metal	How about 4 call energy and 4 bebes? nice idea __________________ LEGOs is an awesome deck, why? The name of course, pure genius. Oh and of course all the power locking and stuff. One thing: needs more Blockman

01/12/2009, 08:44 AM	#4
Rob-GAJP	I'be built this deck for my kids also ( great fun to play Vespy vs. Siczor or Beedril decks ) and made some findings. If you want to try and make it a competition deck , you need to assume a few things and build the deck around it : Dusknoir, Gengar & gang are loose, so you need to test run the deck using only 3 spaces in the bench and 1 attacking Vespy , so bench space is king, and with only 2 sableyes chances are you may or may not get them to start with, also using up critical card space. Even if you start with them, then they would only use up bench space and can't attack or do nothing. I would suggest taking them out. Add another 2 Unown G's to protect as many guys as possible. You'll need them. I also run speed stadium and this has saved me many games, so run 2 instead , and drop the Dawns. Vespy's Bee Drain takes care of its own healing , and you'll have 2 Stadiums to counter Dusky X. Call Energies is a double-edged sword ... if you don't get 1 of them in the first turn , later on in the game they're just energy, so either I run 4 or nothing. In this particular case, and based on the next trainer suggestions, I would run none and leave the energy at 14 greens. Now the trainer line : - Max out the Bebe's and Cynthia's Feelings ( this last one critical in these kinds of decks with no Claydol ) - Change the Bucks for 4 plus powers, so you can have the effect and still use a supporter on that turn if needed - You don't want to discard anything so change the felicities for as many as you can get of ( in this order ) or Quick Balls, Poke Balls and Poke Radars / Dusk Balls ( 20 Pokes is not a high numbers to grant draw from Radars ) - Take out the Energy Restore to make space for the cards above. Hope this helps & good luck.

01/12/2009, 09:27 PM	#6
Zathaz	unknown R goes very well with combees honey tool. Retire draw play combee retire draw.....

01/12/2009, 10:48 PM	#7
renfield89	-2 Sableye SF +2 Chatot MD -2 Felicity's Drawing -2 Dusk Ball -2 Energy Restore +1 Bebe's Search +1 Buck's Training +3 Quick Ball +4 PlusPower -2 Grass Energy --- Chatot for hand refreshment/bad starts/free retreater; the rest for consistency and damage/healing. Think about it! Hope you like it =] -Renfield __________________ Team Sugarbush A 1-1-1 or 1-0-1 line is a tech. A 1-1-1-1 or 1-0-1-1 line, however, is a JOKE. Check Out My Trade Thread

01/13/2009, 07:30 AM	#9
renfield89	Quick Ball is a personal preference. Every Poke in the deck is useful at almost all times, so Quick Ball never failing is a plus. 20 Pokemon isn't a lot either; with 2 Vespiquen and two Cherrim in, you're down to only 12, lowering Dusk Ball's odds. __________________ Team Sugarbush A 1-1-1 or 1-0-1 line is a tech. A 1-1-1-1 or 1-0-1-1 line, however, is a JOKE. Check Out My Trade Thread

01/13/2009, 08:22 AM	#10
PokemansForGeeks	Pokemon- 19 4 Cherim SF 4 Cherubi SF 4 Combee SF 4 Vespiqueen SF 1 Chatot 2 Unown G GE Energies- 13 11 Grass Energy (You shouldn't need any more) 2 Call Energy Trainers- 28 4 Roseanne's Research 4 Bebe's Search 2 Felicity's Drawing 2 Night Maintenance 2 Cynthia's Feelings 3 Dawn Stadium (Dusk matchup) 3 Warp Point (for Gigas matchup) 1 Luxury Ball 3 Great Ball 4 Pokedex Handy 910 Please don't play dusk or quick ball. Dusk is terrible and quick ball almost always nets you something you don't need, better off maxing the bebe's and playing great ball for basics. You could also cut out the roseanne's for another great ball and some poke ball if you want. __________________ Be happy with who you are and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise

01/13/2009, 05:34 PM	#11
Jziffra	I've seen it with Leafeon X, appeared to play well.

01/14/2009, 03:10 PM	#12
natizardblast	i used to play almost an exect copy of this deck. then upon realizing it sucked i mod. it to play a 4-4 scizor and only 2-2 vespy. it works really well because vespy becomes back up to use as a last resort. in my deck it maxs out at 150. its amazing i useed it to ohko mutliple lv.X. problem with it is that at most on average it maxs at 90 with a less than 25% cahnce of triple special condtion. although to stand up for it, it can pull at least 60 off of its self, removing a possible 60on a 100 hp pokemon can stall out for a while but its not enough to to t2 a kingdra or macahmp. and by the time you can hit a dusknoir with twice it will most likly be lv.X, not very good. but yes i love the deck, its a good deck for fun, but i dont think it would be tourny worthy deck.