Life without Claydol?

[Bippa201]

once again, I was having fun and joking around

[Articjedi]

So, because you're joking around, I have no idea when you're actually saying something valid?

[Bippa201]

Sure. I'll say nothing serious from here on

[prodigal_fanboy]

Then why post? That being said, what will happen when Claydol is gone is an entirely irrelevant question, and frankly can only result in speculation which leads to hurt feelings or inflated prices, neither of which are a good thing.

The current meta's definition of viability has Claydol as a keystone part of the clockwork which keeps the engines running. Comparable draw, search, and whatnot effects are not close enough parallels to prevent them from creating an entirely different meta, just like the meta when Claydol finally passes by will be entirely different, and there will be no way for us to accurately predict so complex a beast especially given that we do not know the time of Claydol's cycling out, therefore all we can do is devolve into flaming people who think Claydol is inferior.

[squirtlesquad]

Originally Posted by yoyofsho16

What? That is an awful post. Why do you continue to discredit good players and using Powers? There's a reason people use Claydol: IT WORKS. If you have 2 Power Spray T2 even, that's 2 Claydol locks. BOOHOO. I just wasted 2 of your Power Spray early in the game. Great misplay, Amphy #1. Now when I charge up my Blastoise, you'll have a worse chance of being able to Power Spray it.

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And it also isn't sub-par that your Porygon 2 that you use as draw can be locked JUST LIKE CLAYDOL??

i dont understand why you would run claydoll or uxie in a blastoise deck, you sorta want the energy in your deck, not in your hand. and dont say because its a nessicity, because i run a blastoise/delcatty deck, and I ALWAYS get T2 blastise with 4 energy on the field Im just saying that the deck wouldd run better without the cards in your hand.

[Rodiqio]

Originally Posted by squirtlesquad

i dont understand why you would run claydoll or uxie in a blastoise deck, you sorta want the energy in your deck, not in your hand. and dont say because its a nessicity, because i run a blastoise/delcatty deck, and I ALWAYS get T2 blastise with 4 energy on the field Im just saying that the deck wouldd run better without the cards in your hand.

He's right about that you know, I'd rather use something like poke-radar on that type of deck, Claydol is not a necessity on every deck, there are a lot of good overlooked draw engines, mainly Chatot =P, but of course he'll leave with the next rotation most likely.

Anyway if everyone arguing that you need a good draw engine on a poke power then come Claydol's rotation by that loigic a majority of people will run Dusknoir

[mario1]

Originally Posted by squirtlesquad

i dont understand why you would run claydoll or uxie in a blastoise deck, you sorta want the energy in your deck, not in your hand. and dont say because its a nessicity, because i run a blastoise/delcatty deck, and I ALWAYS get T2 blastise with 4 energy on the field Im just saying that the deck wouldd run better without the cards in your hand.

The only way to avoid using claydol and uxie is to use a bunch of poke searchers to get T2 blastoise consistently. With claydol and uxie you simply run through your draw then drop cynthia's or lookers and it solves the large hand issue. Either way you are using spots in your deck that could be energy I think claydol and uxie are more efficient late game.

[prodigal_fanboy]

Originally Posted by squirtlesquad

i dont understand why you would run claydoll or uxie in a blastoise deck, you sorta want the energy in your deck, not in your hand. and dont say because its a nessicity, because i run a blastoise/delcatty deck, and I ALWAYS get T2 blastise with 4 energy on the field Im just saying that the deck wouldd run better without the cards in your hand.

Suppose you run an energy-heavy build. You run 15 energy.

Ignoring skewing effects like cards on the field (which will, I assume, remove a lot more trainers expended/pokemanz played from your deck, even after a turn or two.

So you run 15 energy.

None are on field.

For all intends and purposes, you have 5 cards in your hand, none of which are water energy.
Claydol, Delcatty, Toise, and BTS on field, with no trainers in discard to keep things simple.

5 + 2 + 2 + 3 +1 = 13.

So there's fourty-seven cards in your deck. Of which, 15 are energy.

You now Claydol, 2 on bottom, draw three. Odds are you've drawn into one energy.

Which you can attach from hand.

In other words, by not running exorbitant amounts of energy, Claydol in Blastcatty lets you draw into the trainers you need without rendering well digging useless.

[baby mario]

I think I want Claydol in BlastCatty. That deck takes a lot of setting up, and anything that helps consistency is a very good thing. Don't forget, you can return Energy to the deck with Claydol too ;)

I dunno how people have decks, with or without Claydol that ALWAYS, by some miracle that defies the laws of maths, set up perfectly by T2. Same way that they ALWAYS manage to get the starting Pokemon they want, or ALWAYS manage to fill their bench without having to use stupid Call Energy, I suppose.

I thought 'heart of the cards' was YGO.

[Bippa201]

With my Empoleon deck, about 3 out of 4 games, all of my Piplup are in my opening hand. Maybe my deck just likes me

[squirtlesquad]

Originally Posted by baby mario

I think I want Claydol in BlastCatty. That deck takes a lot of setting up, and anything that helps consistency is a very good thing. Don't forget, you can return Energy to the deck with Claydol too ;)

I dunno how people have decks, with or without Claydol that ALWAYS, by some miracle that defies the laws of maths, set up perfectly by T2. Same way that they ALWAYS manage to get the starting Pokemon they want, or ALWAYS manage to fill their bench without having to use stupid Call Energy, I suppose.

I thought 'heart of the cards' was YGO.

4x sableye ishow you do it.

[baby mario]

No, it's definitely Heart of the Cards.

[squirtlesquad]

Originally Posted by baby mario

No, it's definitely Heart of the Cards.

if you believe in that sort of thing

[baby mario]

It must be true. Otherwise all those people who don't run Uxie or Claydol wouldn't always topdeck the EXACT card they need every turn.

[squirtlesquad]

Originally Posted by prodigal_fanboy

Suppose you run an energy-heavy build. You run 15 energy.

Ignoring skewing effects like cards on the field (which will, I assume, remove a lot more trainers expended/pokemanz played from your deck, even after a turn or two.

So you run 15 energy.

None are on field.

For all intends and purposes, you have 5 cards in your hand, none of which are water energy.
Claydol, Delcatty, Toise, and BTS on field, with no trainers in discard to keep things simple.

5 + 2 + 2 + 3 +1 = 13.

So there's fourty-seven cards in your deck. Of which, 15 are energy.

You now Claydol, 2 on bottom, draw three. Odds are you've drawn into one energy.

Which you can attach from hand.

In other words, by not running exorbitant amounts of energy, Claydol in Blastcatty lets you draw into the trainers you need without rendering well digging useless.

prizes, 6 cards. so 19 so 41 in the deck. like i said before sableye gets you the vital stufff you need

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Originally Posted by baby mario

It must be true. Otherwise all those people who don't run Uxie or Claydol wouldn't always topdeck the EXACT card they need every turn.

no, like i said before sableye, 2 supporters a turn, thins out the deck,

[mario1]

Originally Posted by squirtlesquad

prizes, 6 cards. so 19 so 41 in the deck. like i said before sableye gets you the vital stufff you need

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no, like i said before sableye, 2 supporters a turn, thins out the deck,

Sableye is not always reliable as a starter and guaranteed you still don't set up T2 consistently just by filling your bench. At the same time 2 supporters a turn leaves you with higher probability of water energy in hand rather than putting 2 back with claydol.

[squirtlesquad]

Originally Posted by mario1

Sableye is not always reliable as a starter and guaranteed you still don't set up T2 consistently just by filling your bench. At the same time 2 supporters a turn leaves you with higher probability of water energy in hand rather than putting 2 back with claydol.

Bebes put them back and thhe supporters i use aare direct search, im looking for specific pokemon why would i want to draw into ssomething i dont need at tht moment.

[prodigal_fanboy]

Wait, did you just say you're running 19 water energy in your Blastcatty deck? No wonder you always drww into it.

[squirtlesquad]

Originally Posted by prodigal_fanboy

Wait, did you just say you're running 19 water energy in your Blastcatty deck? No wonder you always drww into it.

no, you misread what i said..
i said in the caards that you added that were on my side of the field. you failed to include 6 prize cards, idk how you play but i play with 6 prize cards at the start of the game :p just messing with ya


but seriously you just forgot the 6 cards, no biggie

[mario1]

Originally Posted by squirtlesquad

Bebes put them back and thhe supporters i use aare direct search, im looking for specific pokemon why would i want to draw into ssomething i dont need at tht moment.

I have never had a supporter search engine be super efficient for T2. The fact that you say your bench is setup T2 well you only get a roseannes and a bebe's per turn, with 19 water enrgy you won't have the ability to draw into what you need when you need it without the sufficient draw power. It might be wise to search for an uxie to drop beginning of next turn...oh wait, you don't run it. Can you see where this is going? 19 energy is an insanely large amount of energy and the odds of you drawing what you need are low because of it, Just not consistent T2 sorry.

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Here is the bottom line. I play in a competetive state (Colorado) with some great players and uxie and/or claydol is never gone without in a placing deck. this is the topic of the forum and I have stated the necessary information. Claydol will be missed but holy cow, MOVE ON!

[squirtlesquad]

Originally Posted by mario1

I have never had a supporter search engine be super efficient for T2. The fact that you say your bench is setup T2 well you only get a roseannes and a bebe's per turn, with 19 water enrgy you won't have the ability to draw into what you need when you need it without the sufficient draw power. It might be wise to search for an uxie to drop beginning of next turn...oh wait, you don't run it. Can you see where this is going? 19 energy is an insanely large amount of energy and the odds of you drawing what you need are low because of it, Just not consistent T2 sorry.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Here is the bottom line. I play in a competetive state (Colorado) with some great players and uxie and/or claydol is never gone without in a placing deck. this is the topic of the forum and I have stated the necessary information. Claydol will be missed but holy cow, MOVE ON!

i dont understand where you get 19 energy from,you can qquote any of my posts i never mention once that i run 19 energy. so ya.

the
deck is
21 pkmn
23 traineres/support
16 energy

and yes those that use claydoll with miss it.

[butlerforhire]

Blastoise/Delcatty is one of the decks that needs Claydol the most. Sableye will get OHKOed by all sorts of Pokemon from the first turn on, so don't say you rely on that to get you set up. How does Sableye help you at all against Let Loose Giratina, Wager, Looker's, etc.? How does it help you in the mid-to-late game? How does it help you keep things going, ie. get multiple Blastoise out, along with your Delcatty(s) and Kyogre/Palkia G lv. X/whatever else you may be running as back-up?

Claydol is like a motor that lets you cut through what would otherwise be stagnant water. Blastoise/Delcatty is a set up deck, and Claydol was made for set up decks more than anything. Add it to your list and I guarantee you will see a boost in consistency. Or, don't add it and play against any deck with hand disruption, or something quick like Kingdra, or something else that needs time to set up such as Torterra that does run Claydol (and is thus faster and more consistent) and see how much you struggle.

[squirtlesquad]

Originally Posted by butlerforhire

Blastoise/Delcatty is one of the decks that needs Claydol the most. Sableye will get OHKOed by all sorts of Pokemon from the first turn on, so don't say you rely on that to get you set up. How does Sableye help you at all against Let Loose Giratina, Wager, Looker's, etc.? How does it help you in the mid-to-late game? How does it help you keep things going, ie. get multiple Blastoise out, along with your Delcatty(s) and Kyogre/Palkia G lv. X/whatever else you may be running as back-up?

Claydol is like a motor that lets you cut through what would otherwise be stagnant water. Blastoise/Delcatty is a set up deck, and Claydol was made for set up decks more than anything. Add it to your list and I guarantee you will see a boost in consistency. Or, don't add it and play against any deck with hand disruption, or something quick like Kingdra, or something else that needs time to set up such as Torterra that does run Claydol (and is thus faster and more consistent) and see how much you struggle.

ok, ill throw in my claydol in at league on sat.

[Magnechu]

Aaron- thanks for the help. People wonder why good players don't post on these boards and this is the PERFECT example of why most don't. Sooo ignorant and SOO stubborn that they're right, when we've been playing this game for YEARS and we know what's necessary and what's not.

I wouldn't call Machamp and Gengar garbage, because they're not. I actually think Gengar's pretty good. Machamp is mediocre at best, but it wins.

Ugh, it's frustrating not being listened to when for 90% of decks I know I'm right.

[Curry]

I listen when you talk Mikey ;) and I agree as obviously seen in my previous posts. If the mass populous was more willing to listen, veteran players would be more likely to offer help. That's how I view the situation at least.

I honestly hate Champ. Its early game is terrible in comparison to both Kingdra and Rampardos. Then it picks up to the point that it can potentially compete with Kingdra and pass Rampardos midgame only to fall slightly again late game and prove that it is never going to be better than Kingdra in the long run and saying it's better than Rampardos is like saying that Rock beats Scissors. Gengar is one of my favorite decks to play right now since I've been waiting for Miasma Valley for two sets. It's pretty consistent and it can really catch a lot of people off guard with the amount of disruption it has now.