Dialga G losing steam before we even see regionals?

Stigma · 03/30/2009, 08:54 PM

Okay, so what I'm thinking is this:
Dialga G, or really, G in general, won't do anywhere close to as well at regionals than it did at states. It has lost its surprise factor. People know its weaknesses, know how to beat it, tech against it, etc.
I'm seeing more and more people playing Gengar, Machamp, or even Gechamp. Frankly, GeChamp rocks dialga, and Machamp gives it a run for its money.
Not only that, there will be more decks popping up that have good matchups against it.
People are also playing around power sprays better, from what I've seen. They're getting out of the habit of dumping there entire hand for an uxie drop.
BDIF losing the title of BDIF this quickly? Discuss.

Frogg Head · 03/30/2009, 09:04 PM

not really
deafen lock will slow down evolution alot without rare candy being able for use
and you can tech toxicroak g and unknown g against machamp
and power spray againt gengar fainting spell

Stigma · 03/30/2009, 09:16 PM

You can't power spray fainting spell. It happens during your turn.
Sure it slows down evolution, but a lot more decks are running BTS and 4-3-4 lines instead for 4-2-4. The minute deafen lock breaks, you slap a BTS down and get a couple pokemon out, enough to last you until the next break. Sure, it's annoying, but not impossible to work around.

Ariadosman · 03/30/2009, 09:51 PM

What? Counters against it?

People are already running counters, and in reality, there are no really good techs against it. It WILL be the deck to beat at Regionals... probably.

TOYBOX · 03/30/2009, 11:46 PM

It lost steam after the 1st weekend, now peeps are prepared.

nnaann · 03/31/2009, 01:08 AM

Any good player will run Unown G to prevent a Machamp Take Out.

**baby mario** · 03/31/2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stigma

Okay, so what I'm thinking is this:
Dialga G, or really, G in general, won't do anywhere close to as well at regionals than it did at states. It has lost its surprise factor. People know its weaknesses, know how to beat it, tech against it, etc.
I'm seeing more and more people playing Gengar, Machamp, or even Gechamp. Frankly, GeChamp rocks dialga, and Machamp gives it a run for its money.

That works both ways.

Dialga G decks aren't just going to stay the same while everyone else changes their lists to tech against it. Dialga players are testing against counter decks and working out how to beat them.

Quote:

Not only that, there will be more decks popping up that have good matchups against it.
People are also playing around power sprays better, from what I've seen. They're getting out of the habit of dumping there entire hand for an uxie drop.

That's fine. If you want to draw less cards with Uxie, or not drop it at all early game, just because you fear a Power Spray that I might not even have, then it's all good.

Quote:

BDIF losing the title of BDIF this quickly? Discuss.

There will be new Dialga builds, and they will probably still be BDIF. The SP Trainers are still broken.

Varna · 03/31/2009, 04:25 AM

SP are the team's new baby. You shouldn't be surprised if they'll remain the BDIF for a longggg time...

elekid_957 · 03/31/2009, 07:21 AM

i don't really think it's losing steam... if you build a counter to it, then ou'll probably lose to a bunch of other random decks, plus, i've been playing it for a while, and so far no one has had a decent counter to it. houndoom can work as it's easy to tech, but after one hit i just kill you back.. i don't think it's going to die for a little while at least.

*The King Of Magikarps* · 03/31/2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nnaann

Any good player will run Unown G to prevent a Machamp Take Out.

Then I'll use Huricane punch or use warp. Unown G is not the Solve Everything solution that some think it is.

vegitalian · 03/31/2009, 12:34 PM

The deck has counters - the meta will soon even it out and while there will still be good representation of G decks, there will be nowhere near as much as Provincials/States/Territories. It is not the BDIF - it is a solid deck with a high win-ratio. That is about it.

My opinion.

Jayson · 03/31/2009, 12:48 PM

Houndoom G beats Dialga G. That's basically the whole reason Houndoom was created - to counter a very powerful card that the format probably wouldn't otherwise have an answer to.

Dialga should have a decent matchup with Machamp if you work on your list with that matchup in mind - i.e. 2-3 Toxicroak, 4-5 stadiums, and Unown G for the eventual tanked Dialga G X once you draw into 3 or 4 of your special metals.

Rew · 03/31/2009, 01:27 PM

usually when a deck wins a lot at states, it pops up more at Regionals, I don't see how it has lost steam, have you checked the deck forum? There is like... 9,001 Dialga decks.

*prodigal_fanboy* · 03/31/2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rew

usually when a deck wins a lot at states, it pops up more at Regionals, I don't see how it has lost steam, have you checked the deck forum? There is like... 9,001 Dialga decks.

How many of the 9,001 would you personally run at Regionals? I can't wait for the dust to settle and see what the 'Gym has overhyped this time.

vegitalian · 03/31/2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigal_fanboy

How many of the 9,001 would you personally run at Regionals? I can't wait for the dust to settle and see what the 'Gym has overhyped this time.

Hahahaha couldn't have said it better.

Even after G decks were hyped out the whazzoo, Ontario had very few G decks - I'm not sure about Montreal, but I doubt that we will see very many G decks at Eastern Canada Regionals. If anything, I expect everywhere will show a huge increase in Champ or Gechamp decks.

WinkWinkNudgeNudge · 03/31/2009, 02:16 PM

There will be a whole lot of G decks at Regionals (just check the Dialga G Lx. prices on ebay). A lot of those decks will be first generation decks that were run at State but not by these players (building what they lost to) and vulnerable to obvious counters, a bunch of others will be so over teched that they will lose a lot of consistency and there will be a New breed of G Decks at the top tables that will have lots of options and require lots of skill to play. Those are the ones I plan to lose to.

It's not hard to build G to beat Champ. The question is how much of the mirror are you willing to give up to beat Champ.

PokePockets · 03/31/2009, 02:23 PM

Yeah, Dialga should not be that scared against Machamp, it has plenty of techs for it.
Houndoom G is a good tech against Dialga, unless Dialga has a lot of Special Metals attached to it, it get's one hit by Houndoom G

butlerforhire · 03/31/2009, 02:32 PM

Dialga G has more options-- to be clearer, more effective options-- than any other deck in the format. It can lock trainers, Bodies, Powers, and stadiums; it can heal via Poketurn and tank with special metal; it can get lucky with Remove Lost and mess with a deck's energy supply; it can be backed up by any of the other SPs, which all have uses for swaying different match-ups in favor of Dialga G (Toxicroak G for Machamp, Houndoom G for mirror, etc.); it can get turn 2 KOs with relative ease; it can 2HKO virtually everything in the format; it has energy acceleration and manipulation. There are very few things that Dialga G can't do.

Even if Dialga G is run by less people at Regionals, that doesn't make the deck itself any less solid. There is never necessarily a connection between quality and quantity when it comes to this game.

All that being said, I certainly do expect a lot more hard counters to SP in general to show up, namely Machamp. It would be refreshing to see Blaziken and Infernape show up as well (these are pretty hard counters to Dialga G for obvious reasons), although I think the trifecta of Kingdra, Palkia G, and Blastoise will keep them at bay.

DarthPika · 03/31/2009, 02:33 PM

Losing steam? If anything its gaining it.

darkartisan · 03/31/2009, 02:39 PM

It seems like the decks to beat are going to be Machamp, Dialga G, and Gengar.

Play Machamp, you beat Dialga G. Play Gengar, you beat machamp. Play Dialga G, you have options and a good shot at both gengar and less so Machamp.

hitmonchan93 · 03/31/2009, 02:46 PM

How is it losing steam? And how were people not ready for it the second weekend? People were already metagaming against it over here in Oklahoma *for example* the second weekend(which was comprised of many Texans). It doesn't lose to Machamp, if played correctly and teched smartly. And who knows? Dialga G builds will probably adapt and evolve coming into Regionals.

Stigma · 03/31/2009, 02:48 PM

I really don't see machamp being as big of a problem as Gengar. You're probably going to have a lot of trainers in your hand, so really, you're going to get 1-2 shot. Fainting spell may also be extremely annoying, if you need to kill a gengar fast and can't wait for poison or don't have bench space to drop crobat.

hitmonchan93 · 03/31/2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stigma

I really don't see machamp being as big of a problem as Gengar. You're probably going to have a lot of trainers in your hand, so really, you're going to get 1-2 shot. Fainting spell may also be extremely annoying, if you need to kill a gengar fast and can't wait for poison or don't have bench space to drop crobat.

You are; but if run with a Claydol build and Bebe's in the mix you can get rid of your fatal hand with ease, along with the ability to burn cards too.

weavile#1 · 03/31/2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hitmonchan93

You are; but if run with a Claydol build and Bebe's in the mix you can get rid of your fatal hand with ease, along with the ability to burn cards too.

have you ever played a G-deck??

Stigma · 03/31/2009, 02:53 PM

True fax.
I'm sure in this matchup you won't always draw until you have 6 with claydol. Maybe 1 or 2, but not a total hand refresh if it's not completely needed. Staying alive > being prepared for when you die, if you don't need to die in the first place.
I guess I see what you're all saying, but neither are FAVORABLE matchups.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Quote:

Originally Posted by weavile#1

have you ever played a G-deck??

What's wrong with what he said?

03/31/2009, 02:46 PM	#21
hitmonchan93 Images: 2	How is it losing steam? And how were people not ready for it the second weekend? People were already metagaming against it over here in Oklahoma for example the second weekend(which was comprised of many Texans). It doesn't lose to Machamp, if played correctly and teched smartly. And who knows? Dialga G builds will probably adapt and evolve coming into Regionals. __________________ Young Money Cash Money

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03/30/2009, 08:54 PM	#1
Stigma	Dialga G losing steam before we even see regionals? Okay, so what I'm thinking is this: Dialga G, or really, G in general, won't do anywhere close to as well at regionals than it did at states. It has lost its surprise factor. People know its weaknesses, know how to beat it, tech against it, etc. I'm seeing more and more people playing Gengar, Machamp, or even Gechamp. Frankly, GeChamp rocks dialga, and Machamp gives it a run for its money. Not only that, there will be more decks popping up that have good matchups against it. People are also playing around power sprays better, from what I've seen. They're getting out of the habit of dumping there entire hand for an uxie drop. BDIF losing the title of BDIF this quickly? Discuss. __________________ ~Team Hatter~

03/30/2009, 09:04 PM	#2
Frogg Head	not really deafen lock will slow down evolution alot without rare candy being able for use and you can tech toxicroak g and unknown g against machamp and power spray againt gengar fainting spell

03/30/2009, 09:16 PM	#3
Stigma	You can't power spray fainting spell. It happens during your turn. Sure it slows down evolution, but a lot more decks are running BTS and 4-3-4 lines instead for 4-2-4. The minute deafen lock breaks, you slap a BTS down and get a couple pokemon out, enough to last you until the next break. Sure, it's annoying, but not impossible to work around. __________________ ~Team Hatter~

03/30/2009, 09:51 PM	#4
Ariadosman	What? Counters against it? People are already running counters, and in reality, there are no really good techs against it. It WILL be the deck to beat at Regionals... probably.

03/30/2009, 11:46 PM	#5
TOYBOX	It lost steam after the 1st weekend, now peeps are prepared. __________________ Obey, Trainer! Jewlery by Juliefoo~

03/31/2009, 01:08 AM	#6
nnaann	Any good player will run Unown G to prevent a Machamp Take Out.

03/31/2009, 12:34 PM	#11
vegitalian Images: 8	The deck has counters - the meta will soon even it out and while there will still be good representation of G decks, there will be nowhere near as much as Provincials/States/Territories. It is not the BDIF - it is a solid deck with a high win-ratio. That is about it. My opinion.

03/31/2009, 12:48 PM	#12
Jayson	Houndoom G beats Dialga G. That's basically the whole reason Houndoom was created - to counter a very powerful card that the format probably wouldn't otherwise have an answer to. Dialga should have a decent matchup with Machamp if you work on your list with that matchup in mind - i.e. 2-3 Toxicroak, 4-5 stadiums, and Unown G for the eventual tanked Dialga G X once you draw into 3 or 4 of your special metals.

03/31/2009, 02:23 PM	#17
PokePockets	Yeah, Dialga should not be that scared against Machamp, it has plenty of techs for it. Houndoom G is a good tech against Dialga, unless Dialga has a lot of Special Metals attached to it, it get's one hit by Houndoom G

03/31/2009, 02:32 PM	#18
butlerforhire	Dialga G has more options-- to be clearer, more effective options-- than any other deck in the format. It can lock trainers, Bodies, Powers, and stadiums; it can heal via Poketurn and tank with special metal; it can get lucky with Remove Lost and mess with a deck's energy supply; it can be backed up by any of the other SPs, which all have uses for swaying different match-ups in favor of Dialga G (Toxicroak G for Machamp, Houndoom G for mirror, etc.); it can get turn 2 KOs with relative ease; it can 2HKO virtually everything in the format; it has energy acceleration and manipulation. There are very few things that Dialga G can't do. Even if Dialga G is run by less people at Regionals, that doesn't make the deck itself any less solid. There is never necessarily a connection between quality and quantity when it comes to this game. All that being said, I certainly do expect a lot more hard counters to SP in general to show up, namely Machamp. It would be refreshing to see Blaziken and Infernape show up as well (these are pretty hard counters to Dialga G for obvious reasons), although I think the trifecta of Kingdra, Palkia G, and Blastoise will keep them at bay.

03/31/2009, 02:33 PM	#19
DarthPika	Losing steam? If anything its gaining it. __________________ I <3 1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6(3H,7H)-dione 3,7-dihydro-1,3,7-trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione

03/31/2009, 02:39 PM	#20
darkartisan	It seems like the decks to beat are going to be Machamp, Dialga G, and Gengar. Play Machamp, you beat Dialga G. Play Gengar, you beat machamp. Play Dialga G, you have options and a good shot at both gengar and less so Machamp.

03/31/2009, 02:48 PM	#22
Stigma	I really don't see machamp being as big of a problem as Gengar. You're probably going to have a lot of trainers in your hand, so really, you're going to get 1-2 shot. Fainting spell may also be extremely annoying, if you need to kill a gengar fast and can't wait for poison or don't have bench space to drop crobat. __________________ ~Team Hatter~