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Author
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Topic: Envy: MF Venuswarm
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted December 21, 2002 10:23 PM
Well, by now it is pretty obvious what rules Modified Format these days: Entei/Mag and Kingdra, essentially.
The reason for this is simple: both decks use tricks to make them incredibly efficient in their use of energy.
This has me thinking. 
I want something that can punish Entei/Mag while still going toe-to-toe with Kingdra. I envy those decks their dominance.
And of course, green is the color of Envy! 
Envy
Pokémon (17)
4 Bulbasaur (50 HP, Exp)
3 Venusaur (2 Hrvst Bnty, 1 LC)
3 Vulpix (Exp)
2 Ninetales (Exp)
3 Totodile (Exp, Dbl Scrtch)
2 Croconaw (Exp)
Trainers (27)
4 Breeder
4 Trader
4 Copycat
3 Elm
4 Double Gust
3 Focus Band
3 Nurse
1 Broken Ground Gym
1 Time Capsule
Energy (16)
12 Grass
3 Recycle
1 Rainbow (Confuse w/ Ninetales)
1 Darkness
Since the Crocs n' Fox have only a (C) retreat and all colorless attacks, I should be able to use my 3 types to advantage with Double Gust.
The single Rainbow can be Trans'd, and the Darkness gives the element of surprise.
I really like Broken Ground Gym for punishing free-retreat decks. 
Despite these advantages, I worry that this deck will be unstable. I plan to build it for league tomorrow. I would appreciate any advice you might have!!!
BTW, I know I'm gonna hear "you need Cleffa", and perhaps I do...
[ December 21, 2002, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: LizardOTC ]
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"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda
"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC
"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19
From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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ScythKing
Member # 26665
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posted December 22, 2002 09:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LizardOTC:
Well, by now it is pretty obvious what rules Modified Format these days: Entei/Mag and Kingdra, essentially.
The reason for this is simple: both decks use tricks to make them incredibly efficient in their use of energy.
Ummmm dude - you said it yerself - incredibly energy efficient (well encargo tends to throw the baby out with the bathwater when howling - but I digress). Croc & tails both need 3 nrg and it's not enuf damage for what you get - to get them rolling at Cargo Speed you need to pull off a bulbasaur, breeder, venasaur, totodile, croconaw, and 3 energy in two turns - almost your entire draw! Granted gifts from above in the form of Elm and/or copycat would be a big help. In comparison, cargo needs only slugma. cargo, entei - with a good howl he can start dealing major damage. Kingdra isn't near that fast with a requirement that it *needs* Seadra - no breeder for that pest.
Anyway - FWIW I'd pull 2 copycat and put in Oaks Research. It's been my experience when playing against skilled players with good decks that your opponent tends to have as small a hand as you do - 2-3 cards. ![[Roll Eyes]](../../archivedboards.wizards.com/tcg/rolleyes.gif)
I'm working on a deck right now to address this same issue - it shows promise. I'm using Exp Meganium and Dark Octillary. While Meganium isn't energy efficient - it virtually shuts down Kingdra, Dk Octillary with darkness can compete with Cargo in speed and turn 2 you can nail Cargo bad - with a darkness and strength charm you can kill it - turn three you can just take 'em out as you can do 100 to fire with only 3 nrg (2 darks) on him and he can deal out 60 per turn to anything else. Tentacle wrap would fit in with your retreat strategy also. Now all I need is a worthy fire for dealing with Steelix...
Secondly - have you tried Exp Feraligatr? That is one vicious beast and has the HP to deal with Cargo. Electabuz would make it's life tough tho...
[ December 22, 2002, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: ScythKing ]
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-=>* ScythKing *<=-
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There are 10 type of people in the world.
Those that understand binary and those that don't.
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From: Chattanooga, TN USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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LugiaCSC
Member
Member # 15999
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posted December 22, 2002 04:15 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LizardOTC:
[QB]Well, by now it is pretty obvious what rules Modified Format these days: Entei/Mag and Kingdra, essentially. [QB]
Ok YOur saying that these rule modiefied and your posting a standard deck. I would like to know why you are posting a medicore standard deck to beat a modiefied. Look, you have Breeder and Trader
[ December 22, 2002, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: LugiaCSC ]
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FROSTED FLAKES THERE MORE THAN GOOD THEY'RE GREAT!!!
Go A's
From: Your TV | Registered: Apr 2001
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted December 22, 2002 04:52 PM
Hey, thanks for the replies!
ScythKing: You're right in that I need a pretty hefty combo to get speed right out of the gate. But, I have found that if I survive until early midgame, this deck really rolls. There were several games today where I had 1 of each Venusaur and 2 Crocs/Ninetales up by turn 3. In that case I could attach 2 energy per turn and move it around easily. Unfortunately, I also gave away a mulligan in the majority of my games. I do think you are right in that Entei/Mag would probably beat this deck more often than not, due to the lower starting speed of this deck. As for Copycat, opposing Cleffas really help me, so I may just keep them. Your deck idea sounds interesting also, by the way!
LugiaCSC: While appreciate your attempt to help...  (you meant the word "mediocre" in a good way, right?)... I think you need to get your cards in order. Both Trader and Breeder were released in Legendary Collection, and are thus legal in Modified. So, if you have nothing to say to actually help, I'd prefer you ...*Be nice, he's not worth getting banned over*... go review the cards that are legal in the format.
In any case, I made a few tweaks based on my experiences today. I dropped the Grass to 10 in order to add another Recycle and another Rainbow (for Ninetales). I also substituted a Center for one of the Nurses.
Envy
Pokémon (17)
4 Bulbasaur (50 HP, Exp)
3 Venusaur (2 Hrvst Bnty, 1 LC)
3 Vulpix (Exp)
2 Ninetales (Exp)
3 Totodile (Exp, Dbl Scrtch)
2 Croconaw (Exp)
Trainers (27)
4 Breeder
4 Trader
4 Copycat
3 Elm
4 Double Gust
3 Focus Band
2 Nurse
1 Pokémon Center
1 Broken Ground Gym
1 Time Capsule
Energy (16)
10 Grass
4 Recycle
2 Rainbow (Confuse w/ Ninetales)
1 Darkness
The deck is not great, and I'm definitely open to more suggestions!
[ December 22, 2002, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: LizardOTC ]
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"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda
"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC
"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19
From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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Timmy Two Tone
Member # 106756
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posted December 22, 2002 05:02 PM
quote:
Ok YOur saying that these rule modiefied and your posting a standard deck. I would like to know why you are posting a medicore standard deck to beat a modiefied. Look, you have Breeder and Trader quote:
Lugia:
Trader and Breeder have been released in Legendary collection and are leagle in Modified
I like the idea of Dark Octillery How could I miss that card Turn 2 50 Damage and a knock out on Cargo! Too Cool~!
You may want to put 1-2 Ivysaur in there, pulling a breeder at the same time as a Venie can be tough. I like the concept!
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33 and love Pokemon
From: Sandy OR | Registered: Sep 2002
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ScythKing
Member # 26665
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posted December 22, 2002 10:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LizardOTC:
There were several games today where I had 1 of each Venusaur and 2 Crocs/Ninetales up by turn 3.
Durn! I need one of those Rabbit Foot trainers your packing ![[Wink]](../../archivedboards.wizards.com/tcg/wink.gif)
So did you run into any cargos?
You might want to find room for another TC if you Pokemon center - your running on the edge with nrg. So how di the deck do overall?
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-=>* ScythKing *<=-
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There are 10 type of people in the world.
Those that understand binary and those that don't.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Chattanooga, TN USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted December 23, 2002 08:45 AM
The way I got set up that fast was pretty cool. I double mulliganed in one game, and triple mulliganed in the other. And then, *BINGO!* Copycat to the rescue!
Unfortunately, no Entei/Mag decks were there. 
Of my two leagues, that particular one has fewer players (19 as opposed to 32) and more of them are "new".
I did lose twice to the same Crobat deck (played by my 13-yr-old son).
I'm thinking that this deck here is pretty much a "fun deck". 
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"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda
"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC
"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19
From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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IndigoMaster
Member # 752
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posted December 23, 2002 08:56 AM
hey
Man, you gotta get appr so we can playtesat again -_-
its weird...at first look...i honestly didn't think the deck could or would. But honestly i hadn't given it that much of a lookover. But monkeyman kept talking about it last night...so i decied to go take a look again. And you know...maybe it can work...i'd really like to see how it runs in play first though.
and without actully seeing it played...or playing it...its hard to really judge what something like this would need.
But i'm guessing with your lowered energy count, another time capsule would be a definite improvement. And it appears that the deck could handle losing a bulbasaur.
So basically my only fix would be to
-1 bulbasaur
+1 time capsule
I'd love to see how the deck runs...i'll talk to you on aim next time your on about it...
From: Atlanta GA | Registered: Feb 2001
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MonkeyMan88
Member # 14478
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posted December 23, 2002 11:22 AM
Hey LOTC well a couple nights ago I was looking at it and was thinking thier had to be a better way then 5 cards to get cargo well after awhile of thinking I came up with...
Pokémon (17)
4 Bulbasaur (50 HP, Exp)
4 Ivysaurs
3 Venusaur (2 Hrvst Bnty, 1 LC)
2 Vulpix (Exp)
2 Ninetales (Exp)
3 Cleffa
1 Smeargle
1 Pichu
1 Entei
Trainers (27)
4 Trader
4 Copycat
4 Elm
4 Double Gust
3 GB
1 Focus
2 Energy Stadium
1 Time Capsule
Energy (16)
9 Grass
7 Fire
Instead just splash red and use lava flow right back at them ![[Big Grin]](../../archivedboards.wizards.com/tcg/biggrin.gif) and its a lot cheaper and cost effective then croc imo. Also now you can attack with ninetails to ko steelix in one shot or w/e you want. Great deck lotc Ill talk to you later on AIM
From: Auburn,WA,USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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MasterChief
Member
Member # 116617
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posted December 23, 2002 12:11 PM
I wouldn't play 4 copycat either. I would have 2 Copycat, 2 Research, since there is no Genesis Cleffa to be seen. I see your strategy, and I think it will work for the most part. Just watch out for those darn Tyrogues!
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Ranked #1 Pokemon Sealed Format in WI
Current BZs I attend: Brookfield, WI
From: SE Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2002
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted December 24, 2002 10:36 AM
IndigoMaster: Yeah, I do need to get Appr going again. It's on my to-do list (which keeps growing!). Unfortunately, I can not afford to drop a Bulbasaur. I am already at just 10 Basics, and it is critical that I get a Venusaur up early. But, since I'm already Copycatting off of my Mulligans, maaaaaaaybe... 
MonkeyMan88: Nice concept! The only problem is that they will often just go after the Smeargle first. Then you're out on a limb.
If I get the Trans Venusaur up, then I can power up a Croc instantly. Croc OHKOs Magcargo, so I'm happy with it. Of course, if the Trans "Saur is in the prizes, it's a little slower...
Thanks for the great replies! 
I'm still interested in comments and suggestions!
[ December 24, 2002, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: LizardOTC ]
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"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda
"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC
"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19
From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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KYDAD
Member # 30575
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posted December 24, 2002 04:09 PM
My first post in a while. Get talking about new sets and Tournaments starting again and my interest flares.
One minor issue is that you're overweight by 1. Looks like you misadded the energy both times. I'd probably drop the darkness. It can be a great surprise, but with only a single one....
I really like Broken Ground Gym. It has always been a real problem accounting for it whenever I've tried it.
3 Nurse and 3 Focus Bands seem excessive for healing/protection. I'd probably drop 2 of the 6 for a couple of oak's research. Then maybe 1 DG for another drawing card.
But looks good. And really original.
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1st Place-- 2002 GenCon Team Sealed Deck Challenge
Kentucky Dad
From: Crestwood, KY, US | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ch4oz
Member # 97520
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posted December 24, 2002 04:20 PM
i really like the idea of how you play so many trainers cuz slowkings are gone. but that might be too less draw power. i see some other problems w/ this deck. too much elvolutions and too less basics. you should run some switches perhaps(work's w/ your broken ground). maybe you don't NEED a cleffa but baby to stall should help.
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Proud member of Team Rocket, World Champs in Team Sealed!
Aim: ch4oz
From: Arcadia, California | Registered: Jul 2002
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted December 24, 2002 04:23 PM
KYDAD is correct. One too many energy.
Ambitious. I like it. However, remeber that e-Venusaur works best when you can get the energy into your hand. An important consideration since Time Capsule means you have to wait a turn to draw them back.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted December 27, 2002 08:12 AM
Oops... Yep, I'm gettin' old... 
Well, as insane as it sounds (OK, as insane as it is), I'm thinking I'll drop one Grass Energy to fix the miscount. I'm still stubbornly fixated on the lone Darkness Energy, because most opponents seldom suspect it...
Thanks for all the great replies!
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"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda
"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC
"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19
From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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