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Author
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Topic: Rotating Sets out...
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Darkleaf Master
Member # 59034
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posted January 11, 2003 10:46 PM
Ive heard that Pokemon Neo Genesis to Revelation are going to be rotated out of the modified card pool. Can anyone tell me when this will happen?? Thanx
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From: San Diego | Registered: Jan 2002
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old man
Member # 28
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posted January 12, 2003 12:08 AM
If history tells us anything, unless it's in a special situation, such as the format for World's later this year, don't look for it to happen or become a legal format till September 1st.
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From: Del City, OK, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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MasterMazakala
Member # 66586
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posted January 12, 2003 03:04 AM
hm, we would lose our elms, cleffas and gold berries...
I would have thought they would have rotated the whole 4 neo sets out, not just 3. but then again set 4 was slightly different with the darks and lights un all. Well, i dont suppose they would be rotated out untill we have atleast the 3 E card Sets if not more sets...
and they would have to bring cleffa or gold berry back as a promo, or say hello to Moo Moo Milk!!!
From: Wales, UK | Registered: Feb 2002
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted January 12, 2003 07:00 AM
"I hate babies."
-MTM, GenCon 2002
So I doubt Cleffa will come back any time soon. There are basically three possibilities:
A. Neo 4-on
B. LC-On
C. Expediton on.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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The true lord of the pits
Member
Member # 116764
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posted January 12, 2003 10:13 AM
Now, just because the last two rotations have had 3 sets out doesn't mean things will be the same this rotation. I really see the entire
4-set neo saga rotating out, mainly because of the card pool:
NEO SETS
Genesis: 111 cards
Discovery: 075 cards
Revelation: 064 cards
Destiny: 113 cards
TOTAL: 363 cards
E SETS:
Expedition: 165 cards
Aquapolis: 186 cards
Skyridge: soon to come...
TOTAL: 351 cards +
So, as you see, it would be unhealthy to the game to allow Neo Destiny to stay in the format, as it would greatly upset the common E theme and the game's balance. Then again, certain people may discover new strategies with some of those confangled "Light" pokemon ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif)
[ January 12, 2003, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: The true lord of the pits ]
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From: TEXAS... Giddy up! | Registered: Nov 2002
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ShadowCard
Member # 2104
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posted January 12, 2003 02:28 PM
i hate moo moo milk. guess i'll be using potions.
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Registered: Feb 2001
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nick15
Member # 142
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posted January 12, 2003 02:56 PM
Knowing Wizards and Magic's Type 2...
Modified will always be the last Base Set printing and the 2 blocks no matter how many sets are in those blocks. As in...
BS1/Jungle/Fossil/Rocket - Base Block
Gym Heroes/Challenge - Gym Block
Genesis/Discovery/Revelation/Destiny - Neo Block
Expedition/Aquapolis/Skyridge - Card-E Block
ADV 1/2/3 - ADV Block (New sets based on Ruby/Saphire Pokémon)
Neo won't be on its way out until Wizards released the first ADV set, because it's still considered one of "the last two block sets". Once ADV is released (whenever THAT will be), Neo will be dropped, and Modified will be "Expedition-On".
As for Legendary Collection, it'll always be legal until Wizards releases the next Base Set revision. Base Set revisions are not part of any block set, much like Magic's Classic (Xth Edition) reprintings, and don't get rotated out the same time when block sets do.
Kudos to Wizards; as much as I don't like to see Pokémon turn into Magic, there are a lot of standards in Magic that ARE useful in Pokémon (like Tournament Formats). Once the DCI institutes Match Play and sideboards for Pokémón, I'll be a happy camper. ![[Smile]](../tcg/smile.gif)
[ January 12, 2003, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: nick15 ]
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From: Dukhovskoknabilebskohatsk, Russia | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted January 12, 2003 03:04 PM
Of course, TR wasn't rotated out with the rest of the base block (or else we'd have had gym-on), so there's a fudge factor.
Oh, and what about SI?
quote:
Then again, certain people may discover new strategies with some of those confangled "Light" pokemon
What's so confangled about them?
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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nick15
Member # 142
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posted January 12, 2003 03:10 PM
Of course, TR wasn't rotated out with the rest of the base block (or else we'd have had gym-on), so there's a fudge factor.
I guess you could say that Rocket was part of the Gym block. I mean usually blocks have 3 sets in them, and Rocket did deal with Team Rocket's Pokémon.... so...
As for Promos and SI... there is no rule for anything like them in Magic per se, so I can't get an idea of how Wizards/DCI would do it for Pokémon. I would assume that every time Modified is modified, they would cut the 10-20 most oldest promos from the legal list. SI probably would get axed around the next Modified revision as well.
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From: Dukhovskoknabilebskohatsk, Russia | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted January 12, 2003 03:32 PM
Obviously there are a multitude of factors here.
As you may recall, there were just 4 sets in the original Rocket-on. Just before Rocket-on was axed, there were 8. Neo-On left us with just 5, now 6 and soon to be 7 (none of these count SI, by the way).
So, the sets are not a magic number. It really depends on what's in them. WotC actively playtests formats before they are released.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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Prime
Member
Member # 102940
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posted January 12, 2003 04:06 PM
I think they will just rotate genesis out. It has impacted the game so much, that it alone could equal 3-4 sets. I mean, every deck in creation has atleast a neo genesis card. Everyone uses elm, or cleffa, or sneasle, or feraligatr, or magcargo.
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From: Asheville, North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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nick15
Member # 142
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posted January 12, 2003 04:45 PM
Again, it's all based on the block sets.
Modified was...
1. Rocket/Heroes/Challenge - Genesis/Discovery, then...
2. Rocket/Heroes/Challenge - Genesis/Discovery/Revelation, then...
3. Rocket/Heroes/Challenge - Genesis/Discovery/Revelation/Destiny, then...
4. Genesis/Discovery/Revelation/Destiny - Expedition
Rocket/Heroes/Challenge was dropped because Expedition was released. Soon it'll be...
4. Genesis/Discovery/Revelation/Destiny - Expedition/Aquapolis
5. Genesis/Discovery/Revelation/Destiny - Expedition/Aquapolis/Skyridge
6. Expedition/Aquapolis/Skyridge - ADV1
7. Expedition/Aquapolis/Skyridge - ADV1/ADV2
8. Expedition/Aquapolis/Skyridge - ADV1/ADV2/ADV3
9. ADV1/ADV2/ADV3 - (1st Set of New Block)
And so on... Again, it's all about the Block sets.
I'm also assuming that Wizards smashed Card-E 2/3 into Aquapolis and 4/5 into Skyridge just so that the sets conform to block set format (3 sets per block). HOPEFULLY they could also convince TPC to block their sets as well, but we know TPC has their own plans for the game. [shrugs]
[ January 12, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: nick15 ]
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From: Dukhovskoknabilebskohatsk, Russia | Registered: Feb 2001
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The Dark Llama
Member
Member # 75434
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posted January 12, 2003 05:46 PM
I believe that because the Gym cards overlapped sets (ie: Blaine's Kangaskhan was released in Heores while Blaine's Mankey was released in Challenge.) Wizards saved themselves the touble of having to declare which cards were legal or not (since those Gym symbols look so darn similar...) They couldn't ban 1 of the Gym sets because many cards released in one depended on one in the other. (ie: Lt Surge's Pikachu was released in Heroes, but Raichu was in Challenge) How could you play Lt Surge's Raichu without the Pikachu?
Bascially it was to save WoTC time and, most importantly, money.
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From: San Diego | Registered: Apr 2002
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Porygone3
Member
Member # 73689
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posted January 12, 2003 06:49 PM
side deck? For the love, no. How meny cards would have to be in a Pokemon side deck? Well, I play a watter deck, and I'll side deck a wooper in case I run into an electric. I run a fighting deck, I'll side deck a corasola in case of fire, people would do strate colored decks with colorless splashed in- not nessarly a good thing... I dont want to see side decks.
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From: USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted January 12, 2003 08:30 PM
OK, so first we had Rocket On. A nice name.
Then, when that rotated out, we moved on to Neo On, known as Neon. also a nice name.
I guess that next September, we'll be Expedition on. And that will have to be known as.... Exxon!
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Orange Soda
Member
Member # 19838
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posted January 12, 2003 08:44 PM
No no no! It's Collection-on! Colon! ![[Razz]](../tcg/tongue.gif)
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From: University of Missouri-Rolla | Registered: May 2001
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DMTM
Member # 10
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posted January 13, 2003 11:20 AM
Wisely spoken Prime.
DMTM
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From: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Super Psyduck
Member # 921
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posted January 13, 2003 11:35 AM
Then we have, Bill,Trader, FH,Potion, and some other cards left from LC. Then we don't have a chance then it will be maximum maybee 2-3 trainers each turn. And 1 supporter. That sounds strange
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From: Norway, Nesodden :) | Registered: Feb 2001
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted January 13, 2003 05:01 PM
Please rmember that M:tG sets are much larger than Pokémon Sets.
If the M:tG block logic were really the model, then we would need to have 2-3 blocks in the format in order to have a really viable card pool.
The format will change just before Worlds. My bet (and also my hope) is that Genesis, and only Genesis (well, perhaps Discovery too)will be probably be dropped. My bias is always toward dropping the lowest possible number of sets needed to impact the environment. Dropping just Genesis would be HUGE, and hugely fun to adapt to.
Good call, Prime.
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From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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kurobatto
Member
Member # 82943
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posted January 13, 2003 05:17 PM
Hmm, that's kinda messed up actually. Rotating only Neo Genesis isn't the best idea IMO. Since Expedition and Aquapolis are so big, I think all of Neo block should be rotated. Rotating only Neo Genesis wouldn't change the big archetypes much at all. Magcargo/Entei and Kingdra will still be around. The draw in them would be different of coarse and there would be no more Gold Berry or Focus Band, but that doesn't stop them from reigning supreme over the format. IMO, we need a rotation that would shake up the format more like how the last one did. The last rotation completely destroyed the most played deck in the format, Feraligatr.
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted January 13, 2003 06:25 PM
From what I can tell about format changes, generally they do not rotate sets out until they are about 2 years old or more.
Whatever the case, you can be sure that WotC will do enough internal testing to verify that the rotation will alter the environment in a challenging way, while still maintaining a large enough card pool to keep it interesting.
Whatever they do, it will be fun to build new decks!
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From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted January 13, 2003 06:59 PM
For the sake of arguement, I'll show you my deck I used at a recent modified tournament:
Leduck-Muk:
Pokémon: 20
2x Psyduck (TR/LC)
1x Psyduck (Neo Destiny)
3x Light Golduck
3x Ledyba (Neo Genesis)
3x Light Ledian
2x Cleffa (Neo Genesis)
2x Grimer (Fossil/LC)
2x Muk (Fossil/LC)
1x Pikachu (Neo Genesis)
1x Tyrogue
Trainers: 22
4x Pokémon Trader
4x Copycat
4x Double Gust
3x Professor Elm
2x Focus Band
2x Gold Berry
2x Potion
1x Pokémon Tower
Energy:
6x Grass Energy
5x Psychic Energy
4x Rainbow Energy
2x Full Heal Energy
1x Miracle Energy
Bold indicates neo Genesis. These cards would have to be replaced, most likely resulting in:
Leduck-Muk:
Pokémon: 20
2x Psyduck (TR/LC)
1x Psyduck (Neo Destiny)
3x Light Golduck
3x Ledyba (Neo Destiny)
3x Light Ledian
2x Electabuzz (Winner Promo)
2x Grimer (Fossil/LC)
2x Muk (Fossil/LC)
2x Tyrogue (Neo Discovery)
Trainers: 22
4x Pokémon Trader
4x Copycat
4x Pokemon Reversal (or maybe something else)
3x Prof Oak's Research
4x Moo-Moo Milk
2x Potion
1x Pokémon Tower
Energy:
6x Grass Energy
5x Psychic Energy
4x Rainbow Energy
2x Full Heal Energy
1x Miracle Energy
Of course, that's for a change now. We're talking at least two sets from now, and I'm looking forward to that Boost Energy.
[ January 13, 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: yoshi1001 ]
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak
Member # 37400
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posted January 14, 2003 04:58 AM
It would be nice to see Genesis/Discovery go out, but it's probably not going to happen.
With all the water-resistant cards in this format, grass use will go up and water use will go down (unless some other MAJOR cards come out in AQ). Thus, Entei-Cargo goes up with maybe 1 or 2 teched Water-Resistant cards with C/CC attacks. Pichu's gone, so anti-Cargo decks would lose their staple. Muk pretty much does zilch against it...
Everyone would have to deal with lesser Trainers and lack of Cleffa -- but E-C never needed it anyway, as it would prefer to be Howling turn one rather than Eeeeeeeking.
It would finally be the boost Entei-Cargo is looking for to become a dominant archetype.
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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.
Viva la unoriginality!
From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
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