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Author
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Topic: how do you shuffle?
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LTEDDYBEAR
Member
Member # 20995
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posted October 03, 2002 10:50 AM
how do you shuffle?I wondering if i'm the only one who shuffles where you put all the cards on the table and mix them around. I found that if you do that then your cards don't bend and you don't ruin them.
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Hey I like hunting,
ever killed a deer,
how about five turkey's!
2002 10-Pointer, gross: 142"
From: Ohio USA | Registered: May 2001
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Orange Soda
Member
Member # 19838
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posted October 03, 2002 11:01 AM
I hold the entire deck in one hand and drop a few cards at a time into my other hand, repeating several times. You can do this while walking around, if need be.
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I'm crushed. The fans are crushed. Orange Soda is Crushed Orange Soda!~Gengar
Orange Soda Online
From: University of Missouri-Rolla | Registered: May 2001
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DMTM
Member # 10
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posted October 03, 2002 11:07 AM
To make sure you get even distribution before a game deal your cards into 6 piles like you were dealing them to 6 players. Then combine those piles and shuffle your deck no less then three times. The do the Hokey-Poké....
DMTM
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Frodo_Baggins - "Like the guy said "Get out of the box""
From: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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mysterioustrainer
Member # 1049
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posted October 03, 2002 11:11 AM
There are three ways that I shuffle. First, if your are considering the condition of your cards, put your cards in sleeves so that your cards are more protected.
My first way to shuffle is when I start shuffling a just-built deck. When you build a deck you probably have all the cards of the same name put together so you should get them apart. So the first way to shuffle is the five-card pile sort. You take the top card from your deck and put it into one pile, then the next card pile. The sixth card would then be put on top of the first in pile one. Continuing on you should get 5 12-card piles. That effectivly randomizes the deck.
Once that is done, I usually give it a good standard shuffle. This means cutting the deck into two parts and pick each pile up with your 3 end fingers and thumb. Then you use your index finger to apply pressure to sort in the cards to the other pile.
If I am busy playing and don't want to be wasting time shuffling my deck I will simply take a half a deck in one hand a throw small portions of that half on top of the other half of the deck.
I would not recommend mix on the table shuffle because that does not perfectly shuffle the deck in many cases and the dirt and other particles on the table can tear on the surface of the cards.
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~Myst
www.freewebs.com/mysterioustrainer
Check out my personal website. Includes my ideas for decks my own fake cards, GB Teams, links to Ebay auctions, main trading page and much, much more.
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From: Wherever the adventure takes me! | Registered: Feb 2001
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted October 03, 2002 12:25 PM
I shuffle and deal into 5 piles, gather, brief shuffle, deal into 7 piles, longer shuffle and then offer to my opponent to cut.
During the game when a suffle is required I don't normally deal the cards into piles..just shuffle,shuffle, shuffle, shuffle..until both myself and my opponent are happy that the cards have been randomised.
Any shuffle that takes less than 30 seconds probably isn't a good shuffle.
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'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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Pokidad
Member # 135
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posted October 03, 2002 01:20 PM
Give your deck to a Judge to shuffle ![[ROFL]](../tcg/graemlins/roflmao.gif) like DMTM ![[Devilish]](../tcg/graemlins/diablo.gif)
There are many techniques and I think if you search this site for this topic, you will find a couple of other articles about shuffling.
Here is one topic. Just use the search function above and you can find more topics on shuffling.
http://boards.wizards.com/tcg-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=73;t=000176
From: Falls Church, VA USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted October 03, 2002 03:50 PM
We did a deck check on the finals of the EC Gym Challenge.
When you do a deck check, you basically un-randomize their cards. Neither kid could do a riffle shuffle, which was the only way to really get the cards randomized in the time that they had.
I riffle shuffled for both of them. Better than than have the game decided by who happened to draw the right part of a non-random deck.
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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
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lurili
Member # 87
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posted October 03, 2002 03:56 PM
I don't even use my hands to shuffle, I just throw them in the air now! It works quite effectively and is good exercise, trust me. How's that for randomnization ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif) ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif)
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lurili:
The original InSaNe player.
Proud leader of tNsn
The Pokemon Ruins
InSaNiTy leads to Chaos.
InSaNiTy X: Record - 48,890-1098
From: SoFla Style (Miami!!!) | Sanity: None | Mind: Fried | Registered: Feb 2001
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Otaku
Member # 42359
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posted October 04, 2002 08:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DMTM:
To make sure you get even distribution before a game deal your cards into 6 piles like you were dealing them to 6 players. Then combine those piles and shuffle your deck no less then three times. The do the Hokey-Poké....
DMTM
Wait! I thought the purpose of shuffling was randomization, not an even distribution... ![[Evil Smirk]](../tcg/graemlins/Up_to.gif) This is what the link Pokidad has discusses. When I made a deck, I would organize the cards according to type-not only general (i.e Pokemon/Trainer/Energy), but sub-types (Basic/Stage 1/Stage 2 Pokemon, for example), and specific (All Oaks byb each other and two Cleffa Lv 5 followed by two Cleffa Lv 6). This was bascially cheating, as it resulted in a very uniform card distribution, when in reality, a "random" shuffle should allow those horrid but rare "All ________ are lumped together" and everything in between. DMTMs instructions should still yield random results, do ti the final shuffling: its just he comment that makes me ask DMTM:
Are we suppose to go for randomness in shuffling, even distribution in shuffling, or a little of both (a deck that is evenly distributed but otherwise random)?
I would grately appreciate an answer... [Note: need "puppy-dog eyes" Graemlin]
Please ![[Angel]](../tcg/graemlins/angel.gif) [Angel will have to do]
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Imakuni Rules!
You can reach me at Otakutron on AIM and nihon_game_otaku on Yahoo Messenger.
From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
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Pokidad
Member # 135
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posted October 04, 2002 09:31 AM
Otaku,
The intend is to "chose without deliberation or plan; chance;or varying without pattern, rule or bias." Most players hope that when they do shuffle their decks, they will get also an evenly distributed cards (e.g., draw, seach, basic poke, energy, etc.) in their hands or at least their first hand and that not all the energies, trainers (like all draw cards) and basic pokes are not all togetrher, an outcome that is not favorable. So, a player will continue to shuffle their deck until they feel that this worst type of outcome will be minimized. However, as many times and games I played, I can still not get this particular outcome not to happen (e.g., one time I had 3 Elms and 2 Misty Wraths as my prizes when using aour Gatr deck, ugh, lost the game).
So yes, we try to achieve an even distribution (changes for each deck construction) by shuffling our decks ramdonly. The artilce I cited, which is one of many, shows the likihood of obtaining a particular card knowing that the deck was randomly shuffle based on how many of those cards are in a deck. The method DMTM cited is used by many kids who have problems shuffling their decks or wish not to bend the corners of their cards or feel they get a better randomization and hopefully better distribution of a particular card throughout the deck instead of having them all bunched together.
From: Falls Church, VA USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Dark and Vile
Member # 74653
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posted October 04, 2002 10:16 AM
At the beginning of the game, ALWAYS shuffle your opponent's deck.
You are allowed to do it and, in light of this discussion (and the earlier thread referenced in this discussion), it is in YOUR best interest to do everything you can to ensure randomization of your opponent's deck.
From: Melbourne, FL | Registered: Apr 2002
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted October 04, 2002 10:21 AM
If you randomize your deck you should end up with a small degree of clumping
An evenly distributed deck is most certainly not random!
Here's one way of finding out if you are shuffling sufficiently well to randomize your deck.
1) Order your deck
2) shuffle it a bit
3) have a look at the cards and observe the clumping.
4) shuffle it a bit more.
5) repeat from 3) until the clumping is mostly broken up.
However many shuffles it took you to get to this point, do that number of shuffles again.
You many be surprised at just how many times you have to shuffle to go from an ordered state to a random one.
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'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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LTEDDYBEAR
Member
Member # 20995
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posted October 04, 2002 01:38 PM
If your allowed to shuffle your opponents then can you tell them not to do a standered shuffle and bend all the card? Because with regular playing card i do a standered shuffle and i bent a king and if that was a holo or one i liked it's bent and then you can't play with it and more right?
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Hey I like hunting,
ever killed a deer,
how about five turkey's!
2002 10-Pointer, gross: 142"
From: Ohio USA | Registered: May 2001
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The Fish King
Member # 60187
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posted October 04, 2002 01:54 PM
First I put one half of my deck into one of my hands and the other half in the other hand.
Then I slightly bend my cards back as I trail my thumbs along the side of the two halves making sure that the cards overlap themselves as they fall.
After that I push the cards together...
Lather.
Rinse.
Repeat.
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"In a world filled with turmoil, chaos, and Boston Baked Beans, a man has to find a way to escape the troubles of life." -The Fish King
From: In clothing | Registered: Jan 2002
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Pokidad
Member # 135
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posted October 04, 2002 02:24 PM
NoPoke,
Actually, an evenly distributed deck is a possible outcome of a random event. What actually defines "evenly distributed" and how offen this event will occur when shuffling a deck would be a fun statistical analysis. Dave runs off to dig out his statistic books.
Dark and Vile is correct, when in doubt, be polite and ask your opponent if you can shuffle his/her deck. If they refused, just ask one of us Judges to come over to shuffle the deck. However, be prepare to be asked by the Judge why you feel that your opponent's deck isn't randomized by their shuffling.
I like it when PokePop or BDS shuffles my decks.
From: Falls Church, VA USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted October 04, 2002 02:50 PM
NoPoke eats humble pie.....its true that an evenly distributed deck is a possible random outcome its just not as likely as a random deck still possesing a degree of clumping.
Its a bit like the odds of two people in a group of 30 having the same birthday. With 365 dates to pick intuition might suggest that it is unlikely that two people will have the same birthday. Except that intuition is wrong.
Hmmm, wonder if I can calculate the likelihood of finding all the energies in a deck separated by other cards. (No two energies adjacent) Thinks 13 energies, 47 others
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'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted October 04, 2002 03:30 PM
NoPoke, uniformly random is a common statistical term that defines one possible outcome of a random distribution. If you start with an evenly distributed deck (energy/mana interlacing), then do a number of random shuffles, it's very, very likely that you'll have a uniformly random distribution (with energy/mana clumping limited to 2-3 cards).
Anyway, if you take a deck of 60 cards and enumerate all the card arrangement possibilities, you'll see that a large majority of the enumerations exhibit a high degree of uniform distribution (low clumping).
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Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted October 05, 2002 01:36 AM
The point I was obviously failing to make was that a lot of people believe that an evenly distributed deck contains no clumping.
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'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS
some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL
-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------
'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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Super Psyduck
Member # 921
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posted October 06, 2002 09:38 AM
Five stacks 12 cards in each, take one shuffle, take the next one and shuffle in with the first one and do this do al. And then just shuffle a bit. And during the game i keep all the cards faced the same way so when i shuffle next time i do not have to wreck the sleeves.
That's it..
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From: Norway, Nesodden :) | Registered: Feb 2001
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