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Author Topic: Poison as a Pokemon Power Disabling effect.
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted April 25, 2002 04:08 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
But come on, you also have to agree with me that aside from Pokemon Co telling you that you have to do it, and it being in E*card, there is no basis for it. None. And any newbie player is going to think I'm nuts for ruling like that.
SD, this whole game is an agreement between people. If your players truly trust you as a judge, they will respect you and believe what you say. At my league, most of the people have come to respect me as a fair and impartial arbiter of the rules. It takes time, but it is worth it. As a judge, you also have to trust WotC, as well.

As for why the ruling changed? I don't know specifically. You have to admit that Poison does behave much like the other special conditions. Also, how else besides rulings documents do you deal with erattas?

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
peeptoad

Member # 75638


posted April 26, 2002 02:22 AM      Profile for peeptoad      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
there doesn't always have to be a senseable reason to do something. TPC makes the game so they make the rules and can change it as they see fit. if you need something to prove that the rule exist just wait for legendary collection next month, I have a feeling that that rule will be in the new rule book. also, I don't think that was DMTM said was ment as a threat, he was just saying that if you didn't want to comply to the official rules that you probably wouldn't be allowed to judge which is completely reasonable, he most likely misunderstood you and thought that you were saying that you didn't want to follow that rule.
Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
PokePop

Member # 8



posted April 26, 2002 06:28 AM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Note: Don't take what was said to mean that you can't question the rules and try to get them changed. Many of us do that all the time. What it does mean, however, is that you can't decide that because you don't like a ruling or understand the reasoning behind it (or lack thereof) that you can ignore that ruling.

As Yoshi mentioned, there are various rulings that we may disagree with. Some still disagree with the Magby ruling. Others with rulings regarding "placing Energy cards" only referring to free Energy placement, etc. However, when it comes to making a ruling during a game, we apply those rules as WotC has instructed. It is, after all, their game. OK, not their game, but their liscence.

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DMTM

Member # 10



posted April 26, 2002 11:29 AM      Profile for DMTM      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Not threatened at all. Just pointing out the facts.

If you choose not to go by the rules we set forth in tournaments then you will not last very long as a judge.

You state very clearly that sometimes you do not follow our rulings. Why then would we want you as a judge?

I have no problem with questioning the rules. You can do that as much as you want...but not following them in a tournament as you have suggested is another matter all together.

The Chats are official. The Compendium is a record of those rulings. I would advise using it as a source for your rulings.

DMTM

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Frodo_Baggins - "Like the guy said "Get out of the box""

From: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
CoBrA

Member # 4232



posted April 26, 2002 12:56 PM      Profile for CoBrA      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by SicariusDracus:


Hey, if y'all want to change every single affected pokemon power in existance, fine by me, I'll be right there, enforcing the rule.


S_D - Team Compedium has been around ever since Pokemon came out (or soon after). They have worked very closely with WOTC and have put a lot of effort in their work to help STANDARDIZE the Pokemon game play everywhere, here in the US at the least. There are other countries outside of the US that used and referenced the Team Compedium's records of current rulings. TC may claim that they are not the official body of the current Pokemon rulings but their compilations of the current rules is endorsed by WOTC, mainly because it came from WOTC themselves, derived and archived from the chats hosted by WOTC (who else!!). And as the game continues to evolve because of new card releases, minor adjustments has to be made all the time. Errata or rules change, whether it's card specific or concerning game play mechanics, is something that we as players should welcome and adjust to, for I'm pretty sure that it is being made for the betterment of the game. And as TOs, it's our duty to be aware of this changes ASAP and to educate the players by enforcing them ASAP, regardless of whether the card or cards that have caused the change(s) has been released yet or not. Pokemon play and rules of the game must be the same where I am and where you are at. There should be no rules deviation and game variants for we are playing the same game. Don't you agree? I must admit that I'm also a culprit of changing the game environment, but I do make sure that I informed the players that it is not in compliance with the official rules of the game. There's really no room for different rules enforcement in the game, meaning my players should not be able to take advantage of your Poison ruling and your players to be at a disadvantage with my Poison ruling, or vise versa. Rules should be the same everywhere you play Pokemon. Just my 2 cents. [Smile]

[ April 26, 2002, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: CoBrA ]

From: Waldorf, MD, USA | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
SicariusDracus
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posted April 26, 2002 08:41 PM      Profile for SicariusDracus   Email SicariusDracus    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Did any of you not read my posts?!

I said that I would enforce the rule, despite why I think it's wrong. Duuhhhh, of course I'm going to not want to be a Professor after what... 4 years of gymleading?

And DUH, I also have a copy of the compendiumm, which I've added to for like 2 years. You people take things way too seriously. My entire point was to get everyone thinking about the poison ruling, and to dig to the depths of why it was ruled like that.

Forgive me for all the upstartedness I've caused, it was not my intention to cause any undue havoc. But if it weren't for people who critized the rules, then there wouldn't even be america. I'm just playing my part as professionally as I can.

*cackles, and then disappears in a flash and a wisp of smoke.*

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--Sicarius Dracus
League Gym Leader - TRU West Wichita 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002
Pokemon Professor 2002
--Designer of the Hoppipdrome--
-={Team Gym Heroes

From: Wichita, KS | Registered: Mar 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted April 26, 2002 08:56 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
SD, it's just that there are two ways to question the rules-the right way and the wrong way. This is the wrong way. The right way is to ask why right out of it, not to immediatly take some position and close yourself out. I've done that the couple times, and generally regretted it.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
PokePop

Member # 8



posted April 26, 2002 09:08 PM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by SicariusDracus:
For example: The poison/Pokemon Power rule I'm sorry to say is absolute crap. Any anyone who tells you that the japanese play that way is a liar. [...]

I base my solution off of the cards and rulebook. NOT the compendium, or heresay rules that aren't OFFICIAL (official meaning printed in an errata post or in the rules or future cards). [...]

I usually go along with any ruling WotC makes, with the exception of these. [...]

And another thing about it... I've searched around on the wizard's pokemon site, and I've seen nothing about the compendium, save for knowing exactly where to do. If it's official, put it in a plain place to see it.


I can't imagine where we got the idea that you would ignore these rulings in a tournament...

See, if you start out by calling people liars and guilty of putting out absolute crap, it has a tendency to get their backs up.

As to the Compendium being official: It's not. But the rulings are. WotC has to be very careful about what it endorses or links to on it's Pokemon Web Site. Their liscencing agreement is very restrictive! As much as they can, they acknowledge us.
Heck, they made us Admins of their message board. If that doesn't show approval, I don't know what does.

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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno

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IPGeek21

Member # 184



posted April 26, 2002 09:36 PM      Profile for IPGeek21   Email IPGeek21    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
LIke I said, I AM NOT even going to attempt to convince nor argue the poison rule (it is now a SPECIAL Condition and apparently THEY must all now AFFECT pokemon alike) - oops I lied.

BUT, I am concerned. WHY NOT BE A PROFESSOR? You've been a GL for 4 yrs? KNOW of the Compendium?

Judging tourneys OR... TO's isn't your cup o' tea? or 15+ Professor events? *drools: drafts*

PS I whole-heartedly agree WITHOUT some ruckus or HAVOC where would we BE? or NOT be?

NO problem, I'm always up for a FRIENDLY debate.

[ April 26, 2002, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: IPGeek21 ]

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SHUT UP & DO something about it

From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
DMTM

Member # 10



posted April 28, 2002 02:25 AM      Profile for DMTM      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Your statements when you started this post have now changed.

You made it very clear that you were not willing to use the Compendium. And would rely only on the rulebook.

You are now backing down from these statements. At least the rule one.

Face it your story changed.

You were not questioning the rules so much as saying they did not apply when you were judging. That you would only go by the rulebook.

You said that anyone who said that the Japanese play with the current Poison rule is a liar. Well that person would be me and the other people at WotC who got that ruling from Creatures, TPC, and Media Factory.

DMTM

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From: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Chryst Maakorey
Member
Member # 73412



posted April 28, 2002 04:34 AM      Profile for Chryst Maakorey   Email Chryst Maakorey    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Somewhat related question:

Since POISON is now considered a SPECIAL CONDITION, does it follow the rules of the other special conditions? Will Poison erase another special condition?

From the Advanced Rulebook (Version 6): If a Pokémon is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed, and a new attack against it causes it to become Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed, the old condition is erased and only the new one counts.

From: California | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted April 28, 2002 08:19 AM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
You can still be Poisoned and have one of the other three special conditions.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shakespeare
Member
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posted April 28, 2002 01:27 PM      Profile for Shakespeare   Email Shakespeare    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
It is indeed VERY hard to explain to a 7-8 year old the ruling. Some don't have computers, some don't read the chat transcripts, ect. If it is not writen on the card thay don't believe it. They think i'm taking sides. Some of the gym leaders are not aware of the change. I really don't like it but if that is the way it is fine, i'll get used to it. Hopefully in the next revision of the rule book the change will be writen down. Untill then we must as gym leaders educate the players and explane that is the way it is...

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From: Valparaiso,IN,46383 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted April 28, 2002 01:36 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Some of the people may not know about the rulings. That's why we need people, as you said, to educate players as to how things work. The outside would is much the same-no individual could possibly learn every law, every code, every treaty, so we have judges and police officers and even (as much as you may hate them) lawyers.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shakespeare
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posted April 28, 2002 01:45 PM      Profile for Shakespeare   Email Shakespeare    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
No lawyers please, we want to keep the game fun!

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From: Valparaiso,IN,46383 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
PokePop

Member # 8



posted April 28, 2002 02:28 PM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
When they made the annoucement, the Mts acknowledged that many players would not know about it and to not push it if they did not accept it, at least until the updated rule book is out.

So, for this ruling, it is acceptable to play it the old way for now at League and tournaments (note that the CGs and SCs will apply this rule), but you should try to educate people about it since it is coming and will be the only way to play it shortly.

Better sooner than later.

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yoshi1001

Member # 825



posted April 28, 2002 02:32 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
However, your gym leader may opt to enforce this rule from the get go. I would reccomend playing it the new way now, myself.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged


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