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Author
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Topic: THE page European players need for all releases, tournament and league play this year
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Ann
Member # 74927
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posted June 11, 2002 05:44 AM
Some more small things I'ld like to say ...
The main event ran rather smoothly. We have experienced that if we would allow registration to 11 (it was announced 10) that we would start the tournament around 2 or later. Most people have the habbit of showing up 15 minutes before closing time, this causes registration to run longer as usual for most events. So we announce a closing time of 10 but calculate with 12 ... The fact it had a time delay was therefore more or less calculated in, but I must admit it took half hour longer then I had anticipated. We were planning to actually start the tournament at 12 - instead it was half past.
Secondly, we had indeed a 10 to 1 ratio with judges/professors to help at the main event. This is the recommendent amount for a Stadium Challenge. That is also why we did not need any extra professors, not because we wouldnt want to "pay" you. BTW I dont think we can be accused of not rewarding anyone for a working day.
The fact that not all judges were professors is also something that was partially done on purpose as those judges also need the experience to become a professor. Also we need to make judge-schedules ahead of time so we know that we'll end up with enough staff to work with. Some professors get contacted by us to work at the event ans some contact us themselves. We dont have the habit of taking extra help the day itself since we usually have enough staff as it is.
I was the organiser for the Gym Challenge in Antwerp, but was "only" the scorekeeper for the Stadium Challenge. This was my focus on this event and allthough I did catch some comments here and there my main concern was entering results correctly for the 10- category. I was not aware of all facts untill late that night (and believe me it was very late).
Ill keep you all posted and as always Im open for suggestions, and comments here on the boards or by direct email.
BTW - There are two Gym Challenges added if you didnt notice already, 1 in Tel-Aviv Israel 1st week of July, 1 in Zagreb Croatia, the 22 June.
The Gym Challenge in Athens was postponed to June 30 due to problems with the site...
Ann
From: Antwerp, Belgium | Registered: Apr 2002
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SauroN
Member # 373
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posted June 11, 2002 05:49 AM
quote:
Sauron : No worries about the hotel thing you random on the floor!
LOL @ you Random Dunsparce Trainer ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif)
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The Highgrounds: One giant step for man, one giant leap for the end of humanity.
Yes! Jumpluff DOES own you!
Cursing is good for your health.
I hate it when people edit my posts ...
Number of posts edited since day 1: Lost count after 237 ...
From: Sweden | Registered: Feb 2001
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Mew35
Member # 82996
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posted June 11, 2002 10:41 AM
Hello
First i like to Know where my Professor sign is
I passed the test and was a Judging Professor
Second
We all agreed that there could be Professors playing and others Judging
Third
What about Hannover 22 June
Give us the Trip and two nights Hotel
Like last year and I think most of us will be satisfied (and my friend can come with me and trie again ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif) )
So what about that
I want to try my new deck I specialy made for the event ![[Dubious]](../tcg/graemlins/dubious.gif)
Registered: May 2002
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Michel
Member # 286
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posted June 11, 2002 01:17 PM
Thanks Ann for your answer on the board.
I do feel the same as you do, there will always be things to criticize and things people think would have been better in such an event.
That's one of the reasons why I've said in one of my lasts posts that 'killing Wizards' on the boards is not, in my opinion, the best reaction. Let's stay positive, giving ideas and suggestions.
I think we may learn some things of the GS :
1. running the main event and the Prof tournament on the same day is probably not the best thing to do. Main event on day 1 and Prof event on day 2 (or main day 2 and prof day 1) would have prevented a lot of problems.
2. I suppose that the price for a location like the Beurs van Berlage is really higher than a venue like where we've been in Antwerp. In order to reduce costs, the Prof event could be linked to a GC instead of the GS, as the GS has more players and need a larger venue.
3. The ratio profs/judge seems to be ok, but for the main event only. If there are side events, prof tests, ... more professors are needed.
4. Profs are absolutely necessary during the top 8. These are probably the most important games of the day, and the presence of at least 1 Prof, who has experience and has already be judge in big events is essential in each age group.
Thanks to the Prof who has beaten me after turn 2 in the second round of the Prof event ![[Razz]](../tcg/tongue.gif) , I've had the opportunity to judge one of the 10 and under semi finals. I've seen a few, and totally unintentional, mistakes made by the players, and I was happy to be there to help the judge who was at this table with me. Few mistakes, but these would have had a big influence on the game.
5. I don't think there were that many problems and/or discussions during the main event. I was responsible of the team of judges in the 10 and under age group (great job they made !), and except one or another discussion (like always in big events), there were no problems.
A bad score report and a disqualification in the 11-15 ... the kind of things that can happen in an event with 300 players.
6. 7 rounds were ok for the 10 and under. But when you see that, in the 11-14 group, players ranked from 2 to 12 had the same points (6 wins), I think that 1 or 2 more rounds were necessary. Impossible to play these additional rounds because of a lack of time. Not running the Prof event on the same day would have probably helped.
7. Best of 3 in the top 8 is maybe a Magic system (honestly I don't know), but I find it the best system that can be used. Luck is really less important and players losing a trip to Worlds because of a bad first hand, even if they were the best, would not happen.
FYI, Worlds will be run in best of 3 ... and the whole tournament will use that system, not only the top 8.
8. I was one of the judges who made the deck check before the tournament. Decks with cards from the first sets, with Sneasel, with Japanese cards (even without opaque sleeves) without translation, decks of 66 cards (and the player asked if 60 cards in a deck was a new rule ![[Confused]](../tcg/confused.gif) ), ... all these things made me refuse about 20 % of the decks I've checked.
Angry players, lots of discussions and explanations, waste of time, ...
A better information before the event, through the leagues, the web or any other way, would prevent all these things.
These are some ideas for future events. But once again, I want to insist on the fact that the Gym Stadium in Amsterdam was, in my opinion, a good event.
I've been to 2 STS and 4 STS qualifiers last year, to 2 GC this year. Amsterdam was one of the best of them ... if you except the problems mentioned about the Prof event.
I realize that it will be difficult for WotC to run a new Prof event this year (budget), but trying to do something with Wizards UK during the Gen Con in London (for Worlds 2003) could also be an idea.
One last thing : WotC Europe give 1 box and 18 boosters to the judges at the Gym they organize. I think that the retribution at the other GC is depending on the local distributor. I do agree with Ann when she says that Wizards Europe cannot be accused of not rewarding the people who do something for them, judging or anything else.
And why did nobody answer to what I've written yesterday about the players who are always out of the top 8 ???
We are the majority, and we want as many posts about us than there are about the best players ! ![[Evil Smirk]](../tcg/graemlins/Up_to.gif)
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Proud member of the Professor Program
Proud member of Team Europe
Judge at the Gym Challenge Rainham 2002 - Gym Challenge Antwerp 2002 - Gym Stadium Amsterdam 2002 - Worlds Seattle 2002 - GenCon UK 2002 - Gym Challenge Lucca (IT) 2002 - Gym Stadium Antwerp 2003
http://www.pokemonteambelgium.be.tf
POKEMON TEAM BELGIUM
BattleZone BRUSSELS - Belgium loves Pokemon too ! ! !
From: Brussels - Belgium | Registered: Feb 2001
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Freddy K
Member # 24380
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posted June 11, 2002 02:03 PM
There's just too much that I want to say.
But.
1. The event in Amsterdam was horrible.
2. No side events until 4pm???
3. No 15+ Limited OR Constructed tournaments that should have started at 10am.
4. Many Professors offered help, even before the event, but got no reply. 20+ Professors sitting around at such an event doing nothing while 3 Professors in an inexperienced team of twenty odd people lose heart by what they see being ruled by those around left right and centre for seven rounds running?
5. Five rounds to seven when you have started 2 hours late? GREAT DECISION Head Judge.
6. Head Judge not knowing basic rules such as poison not being blocked by metal, Rainbow not counting as darkness, and energy requirements of attacks??? Not every person who knows how to run a computer program can run a Pokémon tournament. And try to explain to him? He didn't want to know. A very rude person, to many members of the public, players and parents/non-players.
7. No decklists and deckchecks??? One told me that no-one gave a ____ about my questions about them, and to just start playing the first round.
8. Running until 1am in the morning? Surely that wasn't in the original script.
9. Helpers get a box plus 28 boosters. Professors in the tournament get no boosters at all for entering.
10. WotC employees suggesting I play Magic there???
HELP US PLEASE!!!
This I hope will never ever have a chance to happen again.
Those who didn't go - you missed nothing. I wish I went sightseeing that day instead.
-fK
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AIM: TEFr3ddyK
Features writer, Pokémon World Magazine.
GENCON-EUROPE 2003
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From: Slough, England UK | Registered: May 2001
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Michel
Member # 286
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posted June 11, 2002 06:25 PM
Freddy,
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. You're talking about 15+ and Profs (and there were problems indeed), I'm talking about the main event.
Let me give you my opinion about the different points you mention :
1. maybe ok for the side events and Prof event, certainly not for the main event
2 and 3 ; see my previous posts
4. WotC have followed the US prof/judge ratio. I think it was ok ... if Profs hadn't had to move from the main event to help for the Prof test or the side events. Profs who were not judging could have done that.
BTW, Ann or Karin asked me to run the side event (it was approx 2 pm) because they needed a judge who knew how to work on the DCI reporter. I've refused for the reason that I was judging in the 10 and under category where some French and English speaking kids were playing. As I was the only Prof who speaks French, Dutch and English, I think my place was there to help the kids and judges of this category and give them the opportunity to play in the best conditions.
5. 7 rounds was ok for the 10 and under group, not enough for the 11-14 category. I understand that the head judge has refused to penalize 300 players by playing less rounds.
6. Peter is an excellent Magic player and has certainly more experience in MtG than in Pokemon. We may not forget that he's certainly the best TO in Europe for big events and one of the best in the World. If you knew him better, you'd see that he's a lovely guy, but as head judge he had to take decisions which were not always approved by everyone, and prevent discussions as much as possible.
He doesn't know the rules of our game like some of the Profs do (but certainly better that some other Profs !) but I must say that, except at the STS (the head judge was MTM !), I've never seen a head judge who knew the rules perfectly. Peter is certainly one of the best I've seen.
Remember Paris last year ![[Angel]](../tcg/graemlins/angel.gif)
7. You're right, and the reason is very easy to understand. WotC trust the Professors. They're sure they know the rules and they're not cheaters (I hope they're right ). They think that if we've had a problem, we would have found a solution by ourselves.
8. like I said before, a Prof event run on another day than the GS would have prevented all the problems and we would have played a great tournament.
9. your information is wrong, please don't give false information. It is 1 box and 18 boosters (not 28) for the whole day (from 7.30 am to late in the evening).
Why no boosters for the players of the Prof event ? No answer to that, but I hadn't see anything about that on the WotC site.
10. no comment
We've talked about that together at the hotel on Sunday night, and you know I agree with you about the Prof and side events.
You said during that discussion that the Professors have experience, that they know the game and the community, that they have things to say to WotC and that the company should listen to us. I do of course agree with you on that point, that's what I call 'working all together for our game'.
But I don't agree about the way of doing it. I'm sure everybody will listen to positive ideas, and I'm also sure that negative critics will never bring a solution.
I'm not an old dinosaur of the game, I play pokemon for only 18 months. But during that time, I've NEVER seen a Wizards' decision or organization that was not criticized and attacked.
15+, new format, new sets, new promos, Prof program, GC/GS/Worlds instead of the STS, price of the hamburgers at the Convention Center in San Diego, new rules, cities chosen for the big events (I want an GS in the field in front of my house next year ! ![[Devilish]](../tcg/graemlins/diablo.gif) ), ... and I know I forget a lot of examples.
A lot of critics, of attacks, of negative reactions, ... and Wizards is still there, their staff is still trying to do their best for us, even if eveything is not perfect.
In 18 month, I've met a lot of great people, I've played with my daughter in places like Amsterdam, Rainham, Barcelona, Paris, New York, San Diego, Gilze Rijen, Utrecht, ... I've lost a lot of games and won some of them, BUT I've always had a lot of fun.
No everything is not perfect and things could be sometimes better, but honestly, I'm really happy to be member of our community and to play our game in such a 'bad' environment
Philippe, one of the shop owners who ran a league in Belgium died 3 weeks ago at the age of 42.
Antoine Heene, who won the trip in the 10 and under category in Amsterdam is member of that league. Seeing how that kid was happy and hearing him say 'I'm happy to have won for Philippe, he would have been proud of us' is for me really more important than a side event that starts too late or a judge who doesn't see, after 16 hours of work, that a grass energy had to be blue on a Croconaw.
But that's a very personal reaction.
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Proud member of the Professor Program
Proud member of Team Europe
Judge at the Gym Challenge Rainham 2002 - Gym Challenge Antwerp 2002 - Gym Stadium Amsterdam 2002 - Worlds Seattle 2002 - GenCon UK 2002 - Gym Challenge Lucca (IT) 2002 - Gym Stadium Antwerp 2003
http://www.pokemonteambelgium.be.tf
POKEMON TEAM BELGIUM
BattleZone BRUSSELS - Belgium loves Pokemon too ! ! !
From: Brussels - Belgium | Registered: Feb 2001
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Dumbledore
Member # 28029
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posted June 11, 2002 11:37 PM
Very well spoken Michel! ![[Bounce]](../tcg/graemlins/jump.gif)
I thought you had played Pokémon longer than me though...hehe
I've played for 21 months now.... ![[Roll Eyes]](../tcg/rolleyes.gif)
/Dumbledore
[ June 11, 2002, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Dumbledore ]
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The First Certified Professor in Sweden!
Proud member of:
Team PokéParents- we play Pokémon with our kids!
I DO NOT ACCEPT CHEATERS!
18th place in Gothenburg 15+
top16 place and lost to Evens(winner) in Copenhagen 15+.
Plays this game for FUN!
From: Sweden | Registered: Jun 2001
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Mew35
Member # 82996
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posted June 11, 2002 11:51 PM
I want to say that
The normal events where good
But we had a lot of Judges so the Professor thing could have start earlier
I also want to go to the States so I wanted to play and get a chance
Not to play one round and being so tired that I got the wrong deck from my Deckbox
and the n Had to leave because We had to catch the train
So I am verry Angry At WOTC Belgium or whom isz responsible
And i still have no professor thing next to my naME
[ June 11, 2002, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Mew35 ]
Registered: May 2002
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Golduck
Member # 523
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posted June 11, 2002 11:52 PM
1. The event in Amsterdam was horrible.
-For some of us, it was. I also think it was disappointing, chaotic, and stressing. But calling it plain horrible is not the right way to go.
2. No side events until 4pm???
-You're right about that. The side event started too late, and wasn't the greatest one ever.
3. No 15+ Limited OR Constructed tournaments that should have started at 10am.
-Right.
4. Many Professors offered help, even before the event, but got no reply. 20+ Professors sitting around at such an event doing nothing while 3 Professors in an inexperienced team of twenty odd people lose heart by what they see being ruled by those around left right and centre for seven rounds running?
-They already had enough judges. If we wanted to be judges, we should have told them earlier than on the day itself.
5. Five rounds to seven when you have started 2 hours late? GREAT DECISION Head Judge.
-I don't know the reason for this decision, but I'm sure it was important. With so many players, you need to have enough rounds. Just remember what happened in 11-14 in Sweden last year: many players won 4 out of the 4 Swiss rounds and missed Top 8.
6. Head Judge not knowing basic rules such as poison not being blocked by metal, Rainbow not counting as darkness, and energy requirements of attacks??? Not every person who knows how to run a computer program can run a Pokémon tournament. And try to explain to him? He didn't want to know. A very rude person, to many members of the public, players and parents/non-players.
-Energy requirement of attacks? I can clearly see what you're referring to here, Faisal, and I must tell you that the way you act about my mistake is cruel. If you're think I'm a bloody cheater, do so. If you think that Peter, my opponent, his girlfriend, my father and Christoffer are mindless idiots that can't understand attack costs, do so. But what you can't realize is: it was nearly 1 AM. NOBODY can think clearly so late! Especially not Peter, who had been working since early morning with the event! He's only a human, Freddy!
7. No decklists and deckchecks??? One told me that no-one gave a ____ about my questions about them, and to just start playing the first round.
-Decklist aren't always used. They are not a requirement to run an event. Sweden had an event with 612 players and no decklists. Actually, after one match in Sweden, my opponent told the judge that I was playing with more than 4 Gust of Wind. The judge saw through my deck, and noticed I had 3 Gust of Wind and 3 Item Finder. End of discussion. I've seen decklists being used at STS tournaments, but not at other tournaments.
8. Running until 1am in the morning? Surely that wasn't in the original script.
-Of course is wasn't! But do you really think they did that on purpose? Do you think the Wizards staff wanted to sit there, in the middle of the night, totally exhausted, watching the final? Of course, everyone would have liked it to end earlier.
9. Helpers get a box plus 28 boosters. Professors in the tournament get no boosters at all for entering.
-Of course not. What do you need a prize for, being a helpful person for the event and doing a good job, or just entering a tournament? The boosters Michel, Jean Marc and the rest of the judges got were truly deserved. They did a great job.
10. WotC employees suggesting I play Magic there???
-You should have noted the name of that person. I'm sure (and hope) that he'd get to hear about that mistake.
I know you're frustrated about the prof tournament only having 3 rounds, and that your first round's loss meant you missed the Top 8. But attacking me, Stoney, or Peter Coenen does not solve ANYTHING.
[ June 11, 2002, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: Golduck ]
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From: Norway, in front of a Mac, designing the new TE homepage | Registered: Feb 2001
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bulbasnore
Member # 703
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posted June 12, 2002 01:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ann:
I must say that I do feel that whatever we would have decided, we would always have had a lot of complaints.
I hope you will see the light at the end of the tunnel. One thing one could see clearly as a player here in the US is that WOTC was improving _each_ big event or series of small events as a result of experience (WCSTS I was well, it was good no one was killed in the crush; this latest WCSC was very smooth and all previous lessons were applied). You can have the same success in improving your events through creativity and application of lessons learned. Your players _WILL_ respond favorably, as we have here in the states.
Kudos to you for your involvement with your player community. Best wished to you and to those players who will be working with you to improve the game.
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Pokemon TCG is a game for all ages.
6th Place June 2002 WCSC Professor Draft
6th Place July 2003 Comic Con Fan Appreciation Tourney
From: Where you play a kid's game and never T8 in it! | Registered: Feb 2001
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Marcello-Milord
Member # 74276
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posted June 12, 2002 03:53 AM
Hi everybody
We italian Profs will have the first Prof event in Lucca, november 2002. I don't know the details, but we will tell you everything when the event will be confirmed and organized.
If the Amsterdam GC wasn't good for you, WoTC Italy want to start Professor Program (and all Prof events) from September, so I hope you all european profs will be at our events. I hope to be together with the organizers, so I hope to guarantee a *good* organization for the event...
We will see ![[Smile]](../tcg/smile.gif)
And I hope that we will ahve in Europe an event like the WCSC in USA, that is really cool
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**Marcello-Milord!**
* A proud Pokémon Professor
* Member of Team Europe
* Judge in many Wizards' Premier Events
* Gym Leader of PKMN League in Sassari (Italy)
* Nidoking #1 Trainer
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* AKA Milord/Tuxedo Mask
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From: Milano - Italy | Registered: Apr 2002
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Mew35
Member # 82996
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posted June 12, 2002 10:24 AM
If you can get Us Hotels and travel expance
Then Maybe
Because there are under aged Peoaple
I mean they depend on their Parents money
Registered: May 2002
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted June 12, 2002 10:53 AM
After getting feedback from the European members, we are closing this thread. It's time to start up a new one (new ones).
Moving this one to Legendary Posts.
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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
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Registered: Feb 2001
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