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Author
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Topic: Challange Series - TCG AND VIDEOGAME
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted June 25, 2003 05:09 PM
http://op.pokemon-tcg.com/challenge_fomat.html
"The tournament will be 6 rounds.
• 2 rounds of the Ruby & Sapphire TCG – Sealed deck
• 4 rounds of the Ruby & Sapphire GBA – Battle Tower format"
Their motive is to try to get Game Boy players to play the TCG. Thats why there are four rounds of GBA, two of TCG, and they offer the product up front. New players usually do not have cards.
Stick with me here folks. I look at it like this: Nintendo/TPC is starting the game fresh. Now they could have done a small nationwide Mall Tour like WotC did to start Organized Play and bring in the kids (thats what Yu-Gi-Oh did too). But this is by far a better idea by allowing new players into competitive play. The Mall Tours were not competitive, they just handed out freebies, gave deck help, taught the rules, and took pictures of people in front of giant Pikachu cards (I still have a picture of myself with it somewhere)...
However the end result is throwing all the die hard older TCG players out of the picture. Which, I must say, is good for a beginning event. We dont want to overpower the new players.
But if this format continues in big competitive events... This will make older players leave. By disallowing players, you end up with an unhappy crowd. This is not what TPC wants. TPC wants all ages to play. One can only hope that this format is used once.
In addition, the older players, me and you, are the ones who are keeping this game alive. The Professor Program really caused a bunch of us to realize that the game needs our help to keep it up. WotC could no longer purchase event staff to organize events. If we leave as a result of these GBA/TCG Tournaments, nobody will be experienced enough in every location around the globe to fill our shoes. In a few months, perhaps? But I know for a fact that I dont play the Ruby and Sapphire Gameboy Games. Most TOs and Judges dont either. Would anyone even bother taking the responsability of organizing/judging a tournament format that they do not understand. No. Or you are going to end up with one lousey event. With nobody organizing this Challange Series will be a flop.
I'll be on the phone tommorow talking with my sources.
-Phil
[ June 25, 2003, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: GymLeaderPhil ]
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From: Where ever the ladies take me | Registered: Feb 2001
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TheCrossFormatKid
Member # 87741
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posted June 25, 2003 05:21 PM
First, Nintendo decides to turn the pokemon tcg into a COMPLETELY different game.
Then, they have the AUDACITY to turn this "CHALLENGE SERIES" into a GBA slugfest. This is retarded. First of all, they don’t even have all of the pokemon in the video game. My favorite (just an example) being dragonite, I used a gameshark to get it. And now what, I can’t even PARTICIPATE. Also, these don’t have an "entry fee", BUT YOU HAVE TO BUY $15.00 worth of product at a "DISCOUNT" price to play, so those of us who have ALREADY bought product at MSRP have officially WASTED our money. Hell has frozen over, pigs can fly, and a monkey just crawled out of my butt.
[ June 25, 2003, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: TheCrossFormatKid ]
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From: Hoodbridge, VA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Maverick Hunter Zero
Member # 6223
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posted June 25, 2003 05:21 PM
This could be interesting... Confusing, but interesting...
I certainly see some improvements over the old gameboy battling rules that Nintendo used to use way back when they did those old mall tours.
Possibilities. (To go either way, of course)
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From: The strange, frightening world known as "SoCali" | Registered: Mar 2001
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Darkask2
Member
Member # 30668
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posted June 25, 2003 05:23 PM
![[Confused]](../tcg/confused.gif) Huh? I thought this was Pokemon: TCG, not Pokemon TCG/Gameboy. I hope, like GLPhil, that this is just a test and a beginning step, and not the way it's going to be throughout Nintendo's control of the game. (Cause if that's the case, why play? With no Constructed and not even the skill necessary for draft... )
(1st edit)I just took a closer look at the site:
quote:
2. At the start of the event, players will receive 6 boosters of Pokémon-e TCG EX: Ruby & Sapphire.
3. Players have 30 minutes to build a 40-card deck. The tournament organizer will be supplied with Energy cards for the event. We will provide the tournament organizer with Quick Start rules for the player, and include suggestions on how to build a sealed deck.
If that's the case, why bother even playing TCG? If you're just given random packs, not even drafting with them, isn't it just luck???
(2nd edit) (In case you're curious, I am updating this post as I read more into the site.)
Talk about the good with the bad, look at this quote (emphasis mine)
quote:
9. Prizes are awarded to the top players in each age category, reflecting the age categories of 15+ years , 11-14 years, and 10 years & under.
Now we are in the same tournament as the 14- . So the only question is, do we want to be there? Also, the point system gives twice as much weight to the TCG (4 points) as it does to the GBA (2 points). Interesting...
[ June 25, 2003, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Darkask2 ]
From: Altamont NY | Registered: Jul 2001
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted June 25, 2003 05:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Darkask2:
If that's the case, why bother even playing TCG? If you're just given random packs, not even drafting with them, isn't it just luck???
The idea is to lure new players in. Drafting takes time and is complicated to new players. We know who Nintendo/TPC wants to attend this event. Children. Heck, I dont think many of the competitve Game Boy players would pick up the card game to play in a GBA tournament. This sort of cross formats is only appealing to the younger set. The ones watching the show every Saturday, which is not wrong. But they are informally kicking everyone else out of the scene.
Like I said, I'll be calling in tommorrow to see what details I can get and give my opinion on this marketing attempt by the higher ups.
-Phil
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THIS is truly thinking outside of the box!
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From: Where ever the ladies take me | Registered: Feb 2001
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Darkask2
Member
Member # 30668
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posted June 25, 2003 05:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by GymLeaderPhil:
[The idea is to lure new players in. Drafting takes time and is complicated to new players. We know who Nintendo/TPC wants to attend this event. Children. Heck, I dont think many of the competitve Game Boy players would pick up the card game to play in a GBA tournament. This sort of cross formats is only appealing to the younger set. The ones watching the show every Saturday, which is not wrong. But they are informally kicking everyone else out of the scene.
-Phil[/QB]
![[Mad]](../tcg/mad.gif) Isn't this what we were afraid of from day one, then? TPC and Nintendo have taken this game for all ages and made it so, so, so simple and basic that only a younger child would want to play it?!?
Maybe I need to cool down. Talk about throwing me for a loop. I think it would be a good idea for me to reserve judgement, at least until GLPhil comes back with some more info. But if this is the way it's going to be from now on... ![[NoNoNo]](../tcg/graemlins/nonono.gif)
From: Altamont NY | Registered: Jul 2001
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Darkask2
Member
Member # 30668
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posted June 25, 2003 05:45 PM
The more I read, the more I agree with GLPhil:
quote:
3. Players have 30 minutes to build a 40-card deck. The tournament organizer will be supplied with Energy cards for the event. We will provide the tournament organizer with Quick Start rules for the player, and include suggestions on how to build a sealed deck.
Note the part where the TO will be provided with info about the basics of sealed deck play. Sounds like they expect some inexperianced players (coughlittlekidswhoplayR/Sandnothingelsecough), don't they?
From: Altamont NY | Registered: Jul 2001
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Satoshi_Of_Pojo
Member # 58975
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posted June 25, 2003 06:26 PM
I am absolutely digusted that Nintendo would even TRY to do this. Let me get this straight...you're going to not even teach people how to play CORRECTLY, and instead throw at them several packs and say "have it at?" I feel sorry for the poor sap that gets no good duplicates going up against the kid with a Mewtwo ex...yeah, that'll make them want to play more. ![[Bored]](../tcg/graemlins/dozey.gif)
Well, I think we can all see where the game is going if this keeps up. I mean, Nintendo's not even showing equal treatment here; they could have said "half GB, half TCG" and argued that since they own both, they want both to get equal treatment. But nope, that's not how it pans out - instead, we see exactly which part of the franchise is their little baby and which part is simply there to make cash.
Wizards, we're missing you already. Anything WotC EVER did pales in comparison to this slap in the face. ![[Frown]](../tcg/frown.gif)
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From: Elsewhere | Registered: Jan 2002
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TheRealWobbuffet
Member
Member # 123066
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posted June 25, 2003 06:33 PM
First of all, to the one that said Nintendo changed the game. Well, people need to stop thinking Nintendo just changed this game with the coming of the new English cards. These rules were developed over in Japan so for the last time, stop blaming NoA.
Second of all, this IS a children's game so I don't see how it's disgusting that Nintendo is trying to get some new players from the gameboy over to the trading card game too. I believe it was Nick15 who made a long post (either here or over at Zeo) which mentioned the very essential reminder that Nintendo is a business. Business's do what they can do make money. That's how they do it, and they may just happen to make people happy in the process, but Nintendo does not live to make us happy. Is that bad? No, not really, because it's a business.
That's my 2 cents (with some englightenment from Nick15 ![[Razz]](../tcg/tongue.gif) )
Registered: Jan 2003
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Darkask2
Member
Member # 30668
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posted June 25, 2003 06:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Satoshi_Of_Pojo:
I am absolutely digusted that Nintendo would even TRY to do this. Let me get this straight...you're going to not even teach people how to play CORRECTLY, and instead throw at them several packs and say "have it at?" I feel sorry for the poor sap that gets no good duplicates going up against the kid with a Mewtwo ex...yeah, that'll make them want to play more.
My thoughts exactly. It dosen't take nearly as much skill to win in this format as it does luck. quote:
Well, I think we can all see where the game is going if this keeps up. I mean, Nintendo's not even showing equal treatment here; they could have said "half GB, half TCG" and argued that since they own both, they want both to get equal treatment. But nope, that's not how it pans out - instead, we see exactly which part of the franchise is their little baby and which part is simply there to make cash.
There is one bright spot: the TCG matches get double points (4) as compared to the GBA (2), so in the end the amount of points gained from the different aspects of the tournament are equel (eight for each aspect) quote:
Wizards, we're missing you already. Anything WotC EVER did pales in comparison to this slap in the face.
Agreed. However, if this is just a ploy to get some new blood into the game, and we go back to regular constructed later, I could learn to live with it. But, if this is the way it will be from now on...
From: Altamont NY | Registered: Jul 2001
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ilc
Member # 38442
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posted June 25, 2003 06:38 PM
Well besides the fact that I atta go get my bro a cartridge(heh have only 1 game for the 2 of us), I don't mind this at all (^_^). Sure I know many ppl who don't play R/S(or even own a copy),but give it a chance, could be fun (^_^)
~ilc
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From: Scizor's Domain | Registered: Aug 2001
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted June 25, 2003 06:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TheRealWobbuffet:
First of all, to the one that said Nintendo changed the game. Well, people need to stop thinking Nintendo just changed this game with the coming of the new English cards. These rules were developed over in Japan so for the last time, stop blaming NoA.
These arent rules. This is a tournament format developed by somebody else in the United States. Japan has never done anything as bold and rash as this tournament format. You are correct about Nintendo not being the source who changed the rules or makes the cards though.
-Phil
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THIS is truly thinking outside of the box!
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From: Where ever the ladies take me | Registered: Feb 2001
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Bullados
Member
Member # 139064
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posted June 25, 2003 06:50 PM
This kind of event has both good and bad qualities, not unlike the Rodchester Draft format that we all know and love.
Good:
It brings new people into the game. It attempts to coordinate a gameboy/TCG event, albeit rather poorly. The thing that I think is better there is bringing in new people. We all know how good Pokemon Ruby and Pokemon Saphire versions are doing in the real world, so why not bring those people together and give them some cards to play with? Makes sense to me.
Bad:
Pushes out the older players. I do see where this is coming from, however, there is no logic in it. If I recall correctly, the bulk of WOTC's income comes from the sale of booster boxes and cases, things which younger players can't even begin to afford. Also, while they are targeting a younger crowd, they are effectively pushing the older people out of the game in the same manner that they did in Japan.
That's about the best that I can come up with. I won't actually form an opinoin on this until I see it in action.
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From: Outside this world, inside my own mind | Registered: May 2003
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Pokidad
Member # 135
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posted June 25, 2003 07:40 PM
Hmmm. So older players need to learn how to play the GB device (assuming you are battling someone else with a link) and someone will have to check (assuming a Judge) that the GB players are playing by the rules. Is this correct?
So, we have a mix of card playing and electronic device (GB). GB players have to learn the TCG game and TCG players have to learn GB. Interesting format.
My sons use to play the GB (usuall on long trips) but haven't played it in years. So, we have to go out and purchase some GB and certain cartridge to use the GB in this tournament? Not sure how many TCG players would do this. Time will tell.
As for getting x number of packs to create a fourty card TCG deck. It is not luck but skill in designing a deck (even if you are not drafting). Magic players do this a lot playing sealed deck (so does Pokemon). You really need to know what you are doing if you are going to win at that level.
So, as a TCG player, the issue is really getting good at GB game and selecting the right three different 50 HP Pokes (from which sets?, "Battle Format"). Since some of us don't play the GB, this will be a challenge to know which Pokes are available to GB and which ones can be played. Have to love the rule after 8 mintues of play (e.i., certain Powers are not allowed, that should be an easy one to Judge, waiting for the disputes to begin). The last rule is the best "Modified" GBA cartridges are "not allowed." This should be an easy one to check for a Judge.
So, I think the idea is good but also think some more thought needs to go into this format and making it a success.
As for playing in this format, personally I won't waste my time as a TCG player since I don't play the GBA. Perhaps my sons might be interested since they have played the GBA but not with links devices.
Like to heard some other thoughts on this one from European TCG players and other winners from the STS events, Challenge events, and players who attended Worlds 2002.
From: Falls Church, VA USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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jesschow12
Member # 70624
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posted June 25, 2003 07:42 PM
dude 18 yrs old and older to saction a tournament! i hate it!
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From: singapore | Registered: Mar 2002
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TheAnswer3
Member # 57796
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posted June 25, 2003 07:55 PM
Alright really this is completely stupid. First nintendo goes and changes some of the most basic rules that came with this game, THEN they do this??? I have not played a pokemon game for Gameboy in like 2 years i dont even own a GBA, or either of the newer games, if crap like this continues with nintendo i see myself quitting this hobby really fast.
TheAnswer3
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From: Michigan | Registered: Jan 2002
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jesschow12
Member # 70624
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posted June 25, 2003 08:00 PM
btw i think nintendo is getting more stupid ,i saw one od the post saying they will be very good with the ppl in ASIA then now go take a look at the leagues ,it says application for US and canada only
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From: singapore | Registered: Mar 2002
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Raikou1234
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Member # 3003
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posted June 25, 2003 08:10 PM
AJ, you play Ruby, and you know it
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From: Somewhere | Registered: Mar 2001
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted June 25, 2003 08:15 PM
Hmm. I think a R/S Starter Precon deck and 2 or 3 boosters to modify it would have been a better choice than 6 random boosters.
Novices will be hard pressed to put any kind of deck together.
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Registered: Feb 2001
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Pokeplayer
Member # 21730
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posted June 25, 2003 08:22 PM
This Stinks!!
I have NO interest in playing Pokemon GBA. If this format continues at large scale events, it will lose a lot of players. Come on Nintendo, pull your heads out................... ![[Embarrassed]](../tcg/redface.gif)
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Member of the best Pokemon Leagues in the Greater Seattle
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From: Kent, WA USA | Registered: May 2001
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Magmar2000
Member # 62
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posted June 25, 2003 08:33 PM
I think this is a pretty good idea for a summer tournament season.
Over 2 million copies of Pokemon Ruby and Pokemon Sapphire have been sold in North America. I know of many videogame players who don't play the TCG but would love tournaments. These tournaments make the Pokemon videogame player consider playing the Pokemon TCG. I started a topic over at the Pokemon IGN boards (where it is mostly videogame players and hardly any TCG players). I told them about these tournaments and asked for their opinions. There has been only 4 replies so far. Out of those 4, 1 person said they would only go if they could get Deoxys or Jirachi (but I don't think they really understood the events ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif) ), 2 people said they would go if there was one in their area (1 of which used to play the game but stopped), and the other didn't say whether or not they would go (but did talk about Apprentice, so I'm thinking they play the TCG). By holding this type of summer tournament, you start to see some of the many Pokemon videogame players either play the TCG for the first time or be reintroduced to the TCG.
While looking at the OP area at the Pokemon TCG site, I get the feeling that this Challenge Series is a way to get Pokemon USA organized play running. As you can see, Sanctioned Tournaments do not begin until this Fall. Which means no rankings, standings, etc until this fall. Instead of making players wait for tournaments with rankings, etc - why not do a tournament series that brings together both sides of the Pokemon world and could introduce many new players to the TCG?
Just taking a look at all the OP that is planned is pretty cool. The August League sounds fun - and the Gym Ladder League sounds cool! We also get more prerelease events! That will be a lot of fun.
So again, I personally think this is a good idea. While I can understand why some of you may not like the idea, this series has the potential to introduce many players to the TCG - just in time for sanctioned tournaments this fall!
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From: Washington | Registered: Feb 2001
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SD_PokeMom
Member # 97
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posted June 25, 2003 08:36 PM
This is very very interesting, to say the LEAST.
I'd like to point out one thing, which may have been overlooked in the first "oh my god what is this?!!" reaction; lord knows I did at first: quote:
Q: When will the series be run?
A: The exact dates have not been set yet, but the events will be available for hosting on any weekend day through August 2003. Exact dates and locations will be posted on the pokémon-tcg.com website once finalized. (My italics)
My HOPE is that this is an initial...even, dare I say, "stopgap" or "temporary" version of OP? Something that has NO possible interpretation of "infringement" on WotC/DCI OP, while an "overlap" exists, time-wise?
I think this OP is a horrid idea...and I also think that this is a time, just like February of 2001, when the original "15+" decision was made...that our TCG community MUST pull together and let their voices be heard. But don't waste your energy venting about it HERE on the 'Gym: email (POLITELY and MATURELY, PLEASE!!) PUI/Nintendo about this. Let your concerns be known about how this type of OP disinfranchises a LARGE part of the 15+ player community...and it's TOs.
I don't know about you, but as a TO I would NOT be comfortable running an event like this: yes, I play Ruby on the GBA, but I am by NO means an "expert" at it. How am I to ajudicate disputes in a game I'm not completely comfortable with, when there will be players who have played the game ever since Red/Blue?
Let your voices be heard. Let PUI/Nintendo know that this as a permanent OP format will NOT make existing TCG players stay with the game through the transition. We've done it before; we can do it again...
JMHO,
'Mom
[ June 25, 2003, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: SD_PokeMom ]
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From: San Diego, CA --location of WCSTS-2001 and West Stadium Challenge 2002 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Pokeplayer
Member # 21730
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posted June 25, 2003 08:50 PM
Well I for one like the suggestion from SD_PokeMom....
I just sent an email to Nintendo per [email protected].
I expressed my opinion that this format will cause older players to lose interest in the game and not spend $$$ on the product. I urged them to change their format. I would hope that all other Professors, Master Professors, TOs, Judges, etc would email Nintendo and express their concern................
Let's unite and save the game as SD_PokeMon Suggested.............
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Member of the best Pokemon Leagues in the Greater Seattle
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From: Kent, WA USA | Registered: May 2001
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Timmy Two Tone
Member # 106756
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posted June 25, 2003 09:14 PM
Two days ago I started to play my son's Saphire GB Game. I must say it is addicting. I do not know if I would go buy my own copy just to play in a tourney. It does seems an interesting format. I think I could swing Judging, or T/O for the event. It may be a ok format once every few months (like unlimited), but not every week. And it seems to me from reading the board that this is just a kick off, not a regular format for the game. I do not think that the league events will be Game Boy structured--- I could be wrong, I think I'll see what Jimmer says at Comic Con.
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From: Sandy OR | Registered: Sep 2002
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red5bv06
Member # 11458
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posted June 25, 2003 09:24 PM
I play the gameboy, but even I'm unsure about this.
I'm assuming the battles will take place in normal link battle mode. This means that there is no way the TO can know you've used a GS to get Deoxys without a machine which would cost way too much for Nintendo to send to every TO. Then, in normal battles, there is no way to restrict your use of Recover/Rest (Slaking still has Slack Off ), so this will require constant monitoring. VERY BAD IDEA. Unless they supply special link cables that check this stuff, but , again, that would be way too expensive.
Also, what if your batteries die in the middle of a battle?
This is catering heavily towards the Gameboy side. Not only are there 4 rounds (even if they are equally weighted), but everything you need to play the TCG is supplied to you. Whereas you have to go out and buy a GBA and Ruby/Sapphire (more expensive).
I can see people who play the Gameboy and not the TCG playing in the tournament with no problems, but the reverse is not true.
The good news, is I read on there that they will announce their formats in the winter, so hopefully this is just a temporary, one-time thing.
I guess this is better than nothing...
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From: Ooltewah, TN, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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