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Author
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Topic: Should Slowking be banned from the current Format?
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted December 13, 2002 06:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Pokidad:
TPC used our rulings at the TMB and had no problem with it, neither did the Japanese players.
Dave: You expect the Japanese to act the way Americans act. It is not their way to vocalize displeasure with something to guests. If they didn't like something, you'd never hear it from them.
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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
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Registered: Feb 2001
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted December 13, 2002 07:00 PM
hey Pokidad. Regarding "modified without slowking:" yah, without mindgames, the modified environment is much more open, IMO. It will be interesting to see what decks emerge.
Regarding the TMB: don't forget Dave that you played in a side-event. At the 2001 TMB, Slowking was allowed in the main event (as well as Blaine's Charizard). However, we had to use the Japanese version, so all the Europeans had to scramble the night before the main event to change their slowking decks.
DMTM: you say Slowking isn't broken. The point is moot. Slowking is banned. That's all I care about anymore. If you support the ban, I praise you. If not, boo on you. ![[Razz]](../tcg/tongue.gif)
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Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Crazy Random
Member
Member # 78961
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posted December 13, 2002 07:18 PM
Great....I really hate this new banning. Even after they made cards (iggly pichu magby) and brought back cards (muk) just to counter slowking, they still ban it.
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(B)master_trainer_mike says, "Because 1, they don't cause as many problems, 2 Japan isn't angry with those cards, and 3, decks are not built around them (or counter to them).
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Back in the day of rocket-on, was not Gatr a lethal weapon. It could beat anything if it was played right. We even built decks just to beat it (Crobat, Erika's Victrebel). But despite all these facts, it was never banned. Why start now?
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From: CANADA! | Registered: Apr 2002
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RaNd0m
Member # 73173
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posted December 13, 2002 07:26 PM
Wow... Dark Blastoise just got one step better. Too bad I turn 15 before Challenge Series '03... I think the MMF format would be fun to play in. Dark Blastoise > All ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif)
~ RaNd0m
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The Pojo dude who writes articles regarding the game.
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~ RaNd0m the Professor ;D
From: Illinois...=\ | Registered: Mar 2002
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matthewssandslash
Member
Member # 74650
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posted December 13, 2002 11:08 PM
"Back in the day of rocket-on, was not Gatr a lethal weapon. It could beat anything if it was played right. We even built decks just to beat it (Crobat, Erika's Victrebel). But despite all these facts, it was never banned. Why start now?"
Because Japan didn't want Gatr banned.
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From: Here, I think... I'm not sure though. =/ | Registered: Apr 2002
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mysterioustrainer
Member # 1049
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posted December 14, 2002 12:16 AM
Now that Star Trek is finally off my mind (for now) I think I might actually return to the world of Pokemon.
I personnally think that no Slowking is a good thing. WotC plays Pokemon virutally on a daily basis and with the cutting of Rocket Modified and the adding of Expedition, their playtesting might have revealed that Slowking was getting too powerful. Even with Muk, Pichu, Magby, Igglybuff, there was little chance of slowing down the King. An example would be in the 10 and under Worlds Final:
quote:
From the Worlds Archives:
Facing 3 Slowkings an Active Tyrogue with a Focus Band, and a fully powered up Donphan, things looked bleak for Ryan in the middle of the first game. But, Ryan battled back as he had against Bryan Creswell. After an early Knock Out against one of Mindy’s Cleffas, Ryan’s Steelix was able to Knock Out the Donphan before getting Knocked Out by a Tyrogue. Then Ryan’s Pichu came out and started doing damage to Mindy’s Benched Slowkings, eventually Knocking Out all 3 in the same turn for his third, fourth and fifth Prizes.
Game 1 to Ryan
Mindy very quickly got 3 Slowkings into play and powered up her Donphan and started to attack...
Ryan tried to battle back, getting Steelix and Kingdra into the battle, but could never get any of his critical Trainer cards through to heal them up and they eventually got Knocked Out by Donphan as the Rapidspin damage wracked up on both of them, giving Mindy her last 2 Prizes and game 2.
Game 2 to Mindy
Mindy then used Professor Elm to find her first Slowking and another Elm later on to find another Slowpoke...
Game 3, Match and Tournament goes to Mindy
As you can see the Pichu coming through was rare and only worked once. Slowking easily stopped his trainers cards. I watched this match, he kept getting tails all the time, it seemed cruel.
Here is the rate of decks appearing in Worlds
quote:
At the 2002 World Championships held August 3-4, 2002, different decks seemed to make it to the top.
At this event:
Less than 2% of the decks played were Fighting decks (Dark Tyranitar and Donphan was played)
3% played Grass decks (Muk/Crobat or Nidoking)
4% played Lightning decks (Ampharos was combined with Raichu or Zapdos)
5% played Psychic decks (Espeon/Slowking mostly)
13% played Fire Decks (over half were Entei/Magcargo with Ninetails, Arcanine, or Typhlosion combined in the rest)
30% played Water decks (75% of these were Kingdra decks with Dark Feraligatr, Dark Blastoise, and Feraligatr making up the rest)
and the remaining 44% played multicolor decks of all types (here is a breakdown:
1 Alakazam\Charizard\Slowking
1 Ampharos\Umbreon
1 Chinchou\Kingdra
3 Crobat\Espeon
1 Crobat\Mantine
2 Crobat\Murkrow
1 Dark Blastoise\Raikou
1 Dark Blastoise\Slowking
3 Dark Blastoise\Steelix
1 Dark Feraligatr\Murkrow
1 Dark Feraligatr\Nidoking
4 Dark Feraligatr\Slowking
2 Dark Feraligatr\Steelix
3 Dark Gengar\Murkrow
5 Donphan\Slowking
1 Espeon\Murkrow
2 Espeon\Steelix
2 Espeon\Tyranitar
1 Gyarados\Steelix
4 Kabutops\Steelix
1 Kingdra\Raichu
6 Kingdra\Slowking
6 Kingdra\Steelix
1 Lugia\Murkrow
4 Slowking\Umbreon
2 Mixed)
As you can see alot of those decks are Slowking, about 27% to be exact. I really do think that Slowking is overplayed and is leaving no flavor to the game. Also lets not forget that Chaos Gym and Dark Vileplume affected both players, Slowking doesn't which makes it a very attrictive card. Alot of my deck designs will have this dumb Pokemon in mind whether I use it or not. It doesn't make deck building very fun or creative.
So we should let PKMN History take its course and a new current take control. I am looking forward to this and challenge every one of you to take on the new adventure.
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~Myst
www.freewebs.com/mysterioustrainer
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From: Wherever the adventure takes me! | Registered: Feb 2001
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mkymws
Member
Member # 2337
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posted December 14, 2002 01:26 AM
i can see how it is easier. but how is it better for the game to say it has been [Edit] for the last couple of years and now you will fix it by banning this [Edit] evil card?
wouldn't counters or alternatives be better than bannings?
magic is healthy, but wouldn't a viable card pool of thousands be more interesting than one of hundreds that must rotate as the good is seperated from the redundant?
the argument can be made that there is only a small percentage of a whole that is broken.
however my argument is why is one card so dominant over so many?
why are there not more good cards?
i personally believe it hurts the game for you to come out and say "well folks, sorry, but you have been playing a broken game for the last couple of years you morons. so we'll just take out the bad part and you carry on like it didn't happen. ( these last couple years and stuff.) do have a nice day."
sorry on my behalf to you, but it's just not working.
i would rather see better cards. more creative cards. stuff that outdoes the stuff that outdoes the other stuff.
i don't want to see it restricted to something smaller that emulates what magic has become. i want to see it expand into something that pokemon will be.
[Edit: Please, you've been on the forums long enough to know that masking is against the Code of Conduct; if what you'd meant to say was "fouled up", then why wouldn't you have spelled it out completely? ![[NoNoNo]](../tcg/graemlins/nonono.gif) ]
[ December 14, 2002, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: WizPog_PokeMom ]
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jovial evil
From: orange islands | Registered: Mar 2001
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Tahna
Member # 2850
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posted December 14, 2002 03:38 AM
Strangely enough, this reminds of the necro summer and combo winter in Magic.
As said, when more than 40% of the field plays a card in their decks, you'll metagame against it, but this was just a very good card an if you knew how to play it, you could get a killer deck.
As with all decks there will be a nemesis, but that is the fun of the game.
I think it might be a good call, leaving the field open to more deck types to have prevalence and other rogue decks to counter them.
The only thing I fear is that it might go the same way as the post-combo winter metagame which had 5 cards banned because they were too good in that environment after the Master Card: Tolarian Academy (to those non-magic players, think of Blastoise and an unlimited supply of water energy)
was removed.
I pray that this does not happen.
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"Well," said the unicorn, "now that we have seen each other. If you believe in me, I'll believe in you."
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From: the most tolerant place on earth, the cemetery | Registered: Mar 2001
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BigChuck01
Member # 78755
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posted December 14, 2002 09:24 AM
I don't think Slowking needed to be banned. Slowking winning at worlds was a fluke, people just didnt play any anti king at all (the smart people that would were 15+ so..) Anyways, looks like my baby Steelix/Tops gets pichus over igglys again. Yay, consitancy against entei/cargo again
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Registered: Apr 2002
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Pokidad
Member # 135
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posted December 14, 2002 01:34 PM
You know, sometimes it is very hard to know who to believe. I know you have to trust people but I'm have lately been getting very distrusting. I really don't know who to believe (Lizard OTC).
Also, why should TPC care how the game is played here and other places? If they really didn't like how the game was being played (ruling for certain cards), TPC could put out its own ruling document to support everyone who plays their game in different countries. It appears that WotC makes the intepretations for Europe, US and other countries which we all follow. They ask guidance from TPC Master Ruler (real nice guy. I met him at TMB). Then, WotC decides how it will affect the "other gaming environment." I see this as a way to change the gaming environment and keep it fresh as well as stimulate purchases. However, from what I read in prior threads, the gaming portion is small for purchases compared to the total sales. So, I not sure what is valid information and just guesses.
Experience tells us that Gatr was dominant in about 30% decks being played. Now, Slowking "decks" are dominant (about the same %). Wiggly and Clefable was too! Formats were changed to stimulate the gaming environment. Thus, removing Slowking allows more variety in decks as well as trainers to be played.
Pop: you are right that TPC would not show their displeasure to their guest. I would hope others would not do the same. However, the Japanese players do show their dislikes, just like us, when certain cards are played, which they may or may not like.
So, we will adapt and make do, as always. Let the fun begin.
From: Falls Church, VA USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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mkymws
Member
Member # 2337
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posted December 14, 2002 05:57 PM
actually it was flawed mom.
i am trying very hard to be good.
it is more difficult than i thought it would be.
i've been editing myself and being polite and stuff. truly sic behavior.
my point is that this is not magic and should not be treated like magic.
the game has been explosive since it's creation and it should be.
lotc raises something i was thinking about earlier today.
i've heard for years now the mts saying "it's not our game, we can't change it."
yet there have been cards changed and or mistakes have been made that change the cards. so what is it going to be, can or not?
tweak an aquapolis card.
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jovial evil
From: orange islands | Registered: Mar 2001
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MasterChief
Member
Member # 116617
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posted December 14, 2002 06:32 PM
I think that Slowking-less MF will be even more FUN than with Slowking, and the whole point in playing the game is to have FUN, right?
![[Crowd]](../tcg/graemlins/invasion.gif) ![[Bounce]](../tcg/graemlins/jump.gif)
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From: SE Wisconsin | Registered: Nov 2002
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FireFighter09
Member # 3040
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posted December 14, 2002 09:01 PM
ill tell ya if it wasnt for a serious deck i got to face at gencon and origins id say leave it but slowking is getting to be at the point of powerhouse. Try slowking/dark gengar deck. God its sick. The stopping of attacks and the stopping of trainers with breeders. Its to wild to go any further. I want to see it banned.
Thats my opinion.
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From: Pittsburgh,pa 15212 | Registered: Mar 2001
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