Wizards.Com Boards: Expedition in Europe ... delayed or canceled

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Topic: Expedition in Europe ... delayed or canceled

Michel

Member # 286

posted September 20, 2002 04:07 AM

quote:
I have just finished speaking with WotC UK who confirm that yes WotC US has delayed the UK and European Launch of Expedition as part of keeping Nintendo "sweet" ..

So keeping Nintendo "sweet" is more important than the European players and collectors ? [Dubious]

Very interesting information ! I think that the people who took this decision should have to explain it to the European community and to the European WIZARDS customers.
Even WotC Europe didn't have the information !
That's what I call 'to have a minimum of respect for the customers'.

Grey market ? Let's be clear about it : will we order cards abroad if it's easy, really cheaper and if we find products we don't find in Europe ?
Of course we'll do !
And I'm sure a lot of people will keep on doing it in the future as long as it is easy and cheaper, even if the products are available in Europe.

The main idea about Eastern is that it is a holiday period for kids, even if they don't receive special gifts. [Smile]

--------------------
Proud member of the Professor Program
Proud member of Team Europe

Judge at the Gym Challenge Rainham 2002 - Gym Challenge Antwerp 2002 - Gym Stadium Amsterdam 2002 - Worlds Seattle 2002 - GenCon UK 2002 - Gym Challenge Lucca (IT) 2002 - Gym Stadium Antwerp 2003

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From: Brussels - Belgium | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

NoPoke

Member # 42315

posted September 20, 2002 04:52 AM

The big blow out in the UK is at Christmas, chocolate binge at Easter.

Oh well time to find out how many cases I can get on the grey market.

The whole of Europe whose population exceedes that of North America just got a big slap in the face.

NOW WE KNOW THAT THEY DON't CARE ABOUT EUROPE.

I don't want to resort to the grey market. But this really does look like its the only route open to us. Two players have already qualified for next years worlds in Seattle. What are they supposed to do? Wait until April before starting to build their decks. Madness!

As to the impact on OP within Europe. Well its been struggling for a while now, this could be its death. Am I over-exagerating. I don't think so. Shops won't bother to stock Pokemon as they see that there is little push from the license holders. Its already hard to get hold of. Potential customers can't get the product so they switch to some thing else as a replacement. Sales fall and so does the money available to both fund and staff the European offices.

As to E-card readers. If little Johnny wants one for christmas then I'm certain that the internet will provide.

its a very sad day for European players. [NoNoNo]

[ September 20, 2002, 05:44 AM: Message edited by: NoPoke ]

--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS

some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL

-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------

'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.

From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

Golduck

Member # 523

posted September 20, 2002 05:41 AM

This is horrible. I've been a Nintendo loyalist for many years, and I work at the costumer service at Nintendo of Norway, so I know a lot about Nintendo.

And I know they always have VERY long gaps between the US and Europe. We had to wait ages for Gold and Silver (a half year) and insanely long for Smash Bros (Nintendo 64).

We got Gamecube in Europe in May 2002, and USA got it in October 2001! O_o

Nintendo will continue their strategy of releasing new, important soft/hardware many months later in Europe. But I never thought this will affect our TCG.

I'm sure the E-Reader won't be released until Easter 2002. BUT if they indeed choose to wait for Expedition until Easter 2002 too... then Pokemon TCG will be officially dead.

Nintendo aren't in the TCG business, and they know nothing about it. They haven't thought about that a TCG dies when it doesn't get a new set for a year (Destiny, February '01 - Expedition, April '02).

They don't know what Modified is. They have no idea that our format is going to be ruined, and that the US will have a completely other format.
They have probably never heard about DCI and so on.

I'm sure all this will be brought up in meetings between Nintendo and Wotc, and that Nintendo will realize what a suicide this is.

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Ann

Member # 74927

posted September 20, 2002 07:18 AM

Hi-

I thought Ild post a short response to all this.
There are some unforseen complications with the release of Expedition in Europe in regards to Nintendo. As a direct result, we cannot give out a solid releasedate for Expedition at this time.

This is a most unfortunate situation evidently but cannot be helped for now. However all our European offices are doing what they can to resolve this situation as soon as possible...

For the moment this means that Expedition is NOT tournament legal in Europe, even if you would get it from the states. Also be advised that grey-importing from the US is illegal in most European Countries.

As always, please contact me personally if you have questions.

Ann

From: Antwerp, Belgium | Registered: Apr 2002 | IP: Logged

Golduck

Member # 523

posted September 20, 2002 07:19 AM

But who's THEY? Wizards or Nintendo? Check out my topic, and the email I wrote there...

quote:
Originally posted by NoPoke:
NOW WE KNOW THAT THEY DON't CARE ABOUT EUROPE.

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PokePop

Member # 8

posted September 20, 2002 10:04 AM

OK, so were we "lying" about TPC/Nintendo pulling the strings?

Didn't think so. You (you know who you are) can apologize to 'Mom et al. now.

--------------------
"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno

The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net

Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

NoPoke

Member # 42315

posted September 20, 2002 10:20 AM

Ann, and other WotC staff.

I think we all know that you are working to get this resolved as soon as possible.

The grey market exists and is not illegal in Europe. It is the further sale of grey goods that was made illegal. I can't remember the case but is was a sunglasses manufacturer.....

Grey importing will damage pokemon OP and operations within europe.. but if it is the only available route to obtaining product what else is there?

For every week that the european market is delayed or shrouded in uncertainty that is a week that the grey market WILL be supplying.

--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS

some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL

-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------

'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.

From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

adamis
Member
Member # 103826

posted September 20, 2002 10:24 AM

i hate nintendo now!!!
it's stupid because kids and parents won't buy the reader AND a lot of cards at easter!!!
release the cards, so we'll buy some and release the reader whenever you want, perhaps some of us will buy it!

--------------------
mail me at [email protected]
[URL=http://www.adamis.fr.st[/URL] to see my fan arts
i'm a happy member of pokemon team belgium too ^^

From: belgium | Registered: Aug 2002 | IP: Logged

ukpokemonpro

Member # 518

posted September 20, 2002 10:24 AM

PokePop,

no we admit it TPC and Nintendo seem hell bent on disrupting if not killing the game off!

Ann,

quote:
For the moment this means that Expedition is NOT tournament legal in Europe, even if you would get it from the states. Also be advised that grey-importing from the US is illegal in most European Countries

No.. it is not illegal to import cards into Europe as long as any duties due are paid and you are not importing something that is BANNED.

As far as I am aware CCGs are not BANNED and I have imported many cards that just have never been available in the UK!

Now if WotC, Nintendo and TPC can just sort it out and be sensible then we can all relax again.

I have spent this afternoon in discussion with WotC UK I know how frustrated your staff in the UK are...

GREY imports only hurt the domestic market and the overall support we recieve, as they artificially lower the sales in the UK and Europe..

But come on Guys and Gals are we really gonna wait 6 months to get what you have now when the click of a button orders it for us?

Someone needs to explain GLOBAL MARKETS to Nintendo and TPC and the power of the INTERNET.

[NoNoNo]

On a more positive note there is a meeting Scheduled at a high level for Monday to discuss and hopefully resolve this.

But.. if it doesn't end the madness on Tuesday who is gonna stop us Europeans hitting the order button on a website somewhere in cyberspace...

Dollar against the Pound looks good at the moment maybe I'll buy them all this way in future??

--------------------
ukpokemonpro

"a meaningless title is just that ... meaningless"

"London Super Battlezone 2003"
quote the judge...

'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!

14,000 deck boxes yeah we'll take all of them .... what have I done!

Find the Pokemon League and Tournaments in Kent at:The Gamers Guild

From: Gillingham, Kent, UK | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

NoPoke

Member # 42315

posted September 20, 2002 10:30 AM

As to the THEY that I refered to, part of the problem is that we have absolutely no idea who the THEY is. There will be support and opposition to pokemon within any organisation. It is because the THEY are difficult to identify that makes FIGHTING talk futile. The THEY group obviously has power. Somehow we have to pursuade them as to the madness of delaying the release of product for a game whose very life-blood is new product.

--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS

some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL

-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------

'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.

From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

Gengar094
Member
Member # 11307

posted September 20, 2002 10:57 AM

A delay WILL kill off the game.
I agree with you all on the GVD.

--------------------
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From: Raamsdonksveer, Netherlands | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

Golduck

Member # 523

posted September 20, 2002 11:17 AM

Wizards of the coast Europe has tons of Expedition in their warehouse, ready to send out to shops everywhere. The plan was to do this on September 17, but Nintendo stopped them. This is a fact - no speculation.

The THEY that delayed Expedition is Nintendo, not Wizards Europe. What Wizards Europe need now is our support, they want this set to be released just as much as we do.

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ukpokemonpro

Member # 518

posted September 20, 2002 01:34 PM

To quote a duck ..

quote:
Expedition is delayed all over Europe. We don't know when we'll get it. >_<
Thankfully, our card shop will import from the USA...

So will loads more .. distributors all over Europe must be going nuts .. I hear one Major UK chain has already billed WotC for a 5 figure sum based on promotional material for expedition they produced which now has to be pulled.

Bad news for all of Europe if this is not reversed quick the legitimate market for Pokemon in Europe is dead and that gives us new players ..

Us oldies will get hold of it regardless but whan major chains have to import from the states too it is really stupid..

[ September 20, 2002, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: ukpokemonpro ]

--------------------
ukpokemonpro

"a meaningless title is just that ... meaningless"

"London Super Battlezone 2003"
quote the judge...

'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!

14,000 deck boxes yeah we'll take all of them .... what have I done!

Find the Pokemon League and Tournaments in Kent at:The Gamers Guild

From: Gillingham, Kent, UK | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

Golduck

Member # 523

posted September 20, 2002 02:09 PM

Actually, my local card shop imports every new set from the USA, to get them before everyone else (oh I remember how nuts we went when Genesis arrived).
But other shops, who usually don't import, will have to start doing that now.

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From: Norway, in front of a Mac, designing the new TE homepage | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

NoPoke

Member # 42315

posted September 20, 2002 02:39 PM

I guess the legal guys turn a blind eye to a few card shops using the grey market to obtain stock. But if the big chains tried to go grey, I'm sure that it would be stopped very quickly.

I've been reading through Hasbro's company reports to find out the names of the people at the top. Pokemon gets mentioned a lot but only in a negative way [Frown]

I guess this is the backlash after the over production in 1999/2000. Oddly enough praise is given to Harry Potter, which I though was all but dead.

I will go grey market to get the product but I don't want to. Its one thing to have someone else shoot you in the foot, but quite another to then take the same gun and shoot your other foot too.

Probably our best line with Ninetendo/Wizards is if the product isn't supplied through the existing chain then the grey market will fill the gap. Though this will give a short term boost to the USA figures the overall effect will be a reduction in revenues once the inevitable loss from Europe is included. Both Hasbro (EU) and Nintendo (EU) will be damaged by movement of European consumers to the grey market.

--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS

some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL

-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------

'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.

From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

Michel

Member # 286

posted September 20, 2002 02:54 PM

Someone, somewhere, has choosen, maybe with the 'help' of TPC or another company, to take European players in hostage to protect some interests.

We're not more, but certainly not less, than any other player in the World, and I don't accept that situation.

That person (these persons ?) has absolutely no respect for the European customers and the European Pokemon community, and probably for the hard work of WotC European offices and distributors.

It's maybe harshly said, and I don't usually talk or write like that, but I have never accepted that me, or anyone else, is not treated like the other people are. [Evil Smirk]

After a lot of contacts by phone and mail today, I'd summarize the situation as follow :

- no news about a decision of an official release in Europe

- many different ways for us to buy cards in the USA/Canada, and this really cheaper than in Europe

- sorry Ann, importing goods as a private person is absolutely not illegal in our countries if you pay the custom taxes

- some European players have alredy begun to build a network in order to find cards for themselves and their friends

- we'll have the choice between playing in sanctioned events or not. Important and influent players have already told me that either they would quit the game (depending on YoGiOh in Europe) or they will play non sanctioned tournaments. The direction seems to be clear.

I know European offices try to have the authorization of selling Expedition, and I'm sure you all know that I have absolutely no intention of killing the European market or attacking Wizards Europe/UK/... in any way.

The reaction of the people is always the same : we simply want to keep on playing a game we love, and new sets are needed for that.

And everybody may be sure of one thing : WE'LL HAVE AND WE'LL PLAY Expedition and the following sets. And those who will not, will quit the game.

I'm not talking about the kid who buys a booster from time to time, but about the majority of the people who are the most involved in the game. We're maybe not the most important segment of the market if you look at the sales, but I think we have a place in the game and in the community that's worth to be considered.

Lee sent a mail to the Professors about legal and illegal tournaments and the consequences for Professors, judges, TO's.
I'm sure none of us wants to be 'illegal', and we'll not be. We'll simply buy cards where we can and we'll play outside the WotC OP if necessary.

Result of the situation ?
We'll buy cheaper cards and keep on playing. But I hope that everybody realizes the eventual consequences on the game in Europe, on OP, sales, distribution, ...

I hope too that everybody will understand that this is not blackmail, but simply the result of the present situation, the consequences of something we didn't want !

Last information ... do you want Expedition cards ? Some are already on sale in Belgium [Big Grin]

[ September 20, 2002, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Michel ]

--------------------
Proud member of the Professor Program
Proud member of Team Europe

Judge at the Gym Challenge Rainham 2002 - Gym Challenge Antwerp 2002 - Gym Stadium Amsterdam 2002 - Worlds Seattle 2002 - GenCon UK 2002 - Gym Challenge Lucca (IT) 2002 - Gym Stadium Antwerp 2003

http://www.pokemonteambelgium.be.tf

POKEMON TEAM BELGIUM
BattleZone BRUSSELS - Belgium loves Pokemon too ! ! !

From: Brussels - Belgium | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

Apolonia
Member
Member # 83163

posted September 20, 2002 05:03 PM

I think i have to speak about this new set and how to get it.

There are people on this board who know me, some don't.
For private persons it's allowed to import anything you want unless you pay the taxes.
But be aware of the high shipping costs and taxes in your country.
For the Netherlands that's 24% and you have to pay it over the total of the items and over the shippingcosts.
It still is a bit cheaper than buying cards in the stores, and another reason is that national distributor won't sell boxes to private persons.
I have tried to buy that way time after time and they refused to sell.
If you can find a store who is selling the cards, they will not give you any discount if you want to buy a box.

I have some connections in the States and overhere and they help me to get the cards and it's complete legal. But i can't speak for other countries.
I need the cards for collecting and playing purpose.
We are playing with 5 persons overhere, so you know how many cards we need.
What i have left i sell and buy some more for other players who don't have connections or stores in their neighbourhood who sell the cards.
The price of the cards are related to the price of the boxes and their rarety and i'm not earning lots of money on them i only want my website to be payed of it.

If you need any information just email me.
I don't have the Expedition in hand yet, but i'm trying to get them as soon as possible.

--------------------
The Netherlands is that a city nearby Paris

From: Netherlands | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged

ukpokemonpro

Member # 518

posted September 21, 2002 01:02 AM

Well said Michel we will play on whatever it takes and yes we will play outside OP if that is necessary.

Certainly maybe that is the Game Plan anyway as the last few years have seen Europe marginalised and WotC/Hasbro's re-organisation and downsizing has just fragmented support further.

I really hope we can get this decision reversed .. but as they say there is more than one way to skin a cat .. apart from step one that is ..

Step one. Catch the Cat

Always the most difficult..

--------------------
ukpokemonpro

"a meaningless title is just that ... meaningless"

"London Super Battlezone 2003"
quote the judge...

'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!

14,000 deck boxes yeah we'll take all of them .... what have I done!

Find the Pokemon League and Tournaments in Kent at:The Gamers Guild

From: Gillingham, Kent, UK | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

MasterMazakala

Member # 66586

posted September 21, 2002 05:20 AM

YEAH! lets skin nintendo! and eat their liver with father beans and a nice chardinea!

anyway I think that although this will kill the game it will teach nintendo a BIG lesson when there sales graph looks a little like this

[ignore the lables, just look @ the line.....]

Well anyway, what i am trying to say is that they are gonna bigly lose profit coz of imports sold on the 'grey market' or what ever it is called. Frakly no one will be interested when it comes to the release datebecause the market will be already saturated.

[Sarcasitcly] But i am sure Nintendo know best [End sarcasm]

[ September 21, 2002, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: MasterMazakala ]

From: Wales, UK | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged

Michel

Member # 286

posted September 22, 2002 04:28 AM

Sometimes I'm feeling really tired ...

Look at the time, energy (and money) we spend for the game.
We're always trying to find information, to give information (sometimes to the people who should give it to us !), to find new ideas for the game, new players, to run tournaments, to help kids playing better or building a deck, ...

We do everything we can for the game and the community ... and now we have to find ways to buy cards the company doesn't want to sell us [Dubious]

We are going to spend time and money again while deliberately Europe has been pushed out of the evolution of the game, has been considered as second zone customers, players, members of the community.
And what would have happened if I hadn't found what happened last week and making it public ? We would still be hoping for the release of the set within a few days, while another decision was taken, ... without any information given to us !

Did we deserve to be sacrificed for Nintendo/TPC/licence/... interests ? Honestly, I don't think so.

The positive point of all this is that we now know that Europe, as a community, will keep on having new sets, playing tournaments, trading cards, ... we are stronger than I think we believed [Smile]

Do you realize that, for the love of the game and the community, we're finding solutions to, finally, give our money to the people who have put us in that situation ?

I've often thought that we would have to fight to defend our game, to keep it alive (I think we've already worked on that in the past). But I've never thought we would have to fight to keep our game alive against a WotC suicide.

Sometimes I'm feeling very tired, ... and I wonder if we're not completely crazy [Confused]

From: Brussels - Belgium | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

Tahna

Member # 2850

posted September 22, 2002 05:55 AM

I don't know if it is a WotC suicide action.
As stated elsewhere they are doing their best to keep the licence and not complying to the demands of the mother-company might be the last straw they need to break their backs and Nintendo to be chosen instead.
We can only hope that TPC and Nintendo are wise enough not to let this happen, or for WotC to disobey the rules.

Grote Grutjes, dit kan niet goed zijn.(sorry about the Dutch)
And GVD.

The Restless

--------------------
"Well," said the unicorn, "now that we have seen each other. If you believe in me, I'll believe in you."

In shadows we stand, the last of our race.

From: the most tolerant place on earth, the cemetery | Registered: Mar 2001 | IP: Logged

Michel

Member # 286

posted September 22, 2002 07:54 AM

Is it really worth having a license for new sets if the customers, players and the community are gone, if OP doesn't exist anymore, if the European market is dead ?
It's maybe intersting for the USA, Europe is maybe the price they're ready to pay to keep the game alive in the USA [Confused]

But what are we, European players, TO, Professors, Gym Leaders, ... ?
What are people who are working so hard for the game in our countries like WotC Europe/UK staff, MT's, all these people I meet every week on the chat, all these people I've met around the World who are so involved and so concerned by the game in Europe ?
What are we compared to 'high strategic interests', compared to 'marketing strategy', compared to 'big companies arrangements' ?

Some of you will say that I'm negative, but the answer is clear to me when I look at what happened last week [Dubious]

From: Brussels - Belgium | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

NoPoke

Member # 42315

posted September 22, 2002 10:25 AM

Hello Michel, and welcome to the club [Wink]

Would you like some of my tablets...? They won't make the cards arrive but they will make you feel better about the situation!

I can get product shipped to the UK effectively for free as part of regular containers that come across the pond. Takes 10 days wharehouse to warehouse. All I need to do is get the distribution/retail sorted in the USA and we're away. Note that this would be a service to facilitate personal imports rather than my acting as a retailer. The retail would remain state-side. If you want to sell the cards on that would be up to you ......

--------------------
========================================
'Good News' or 'Bad News' but NOT NO NEWS

some people brag about their tournament results, me I'm gonna brag??? about what players have managed to get past me LOL

-------Hoodwinked---(things I won't get wrong again...)------

'legal stalling' : game loss at least
'only joking' on misreported match results: DQ Yep its that serious!
The prize swap penalty as it applies to shuffling.

From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001 | IP: Logged

Michel

Member # 286

posted September 22, 2002 03:01 PM

Hi NoPoke,

Thanks for the tablets ... I prefer cards for the moment [Wink]

Could you email me the information ? Did you talk about it with Ben too ?

--------------------
Proud member of the Professor Program
Proud member of Team Europe

Judge at the Gym Challenge Rainham 2002 - Gym Challenge Antwerp 2002 - Gym Stadium Amsterdam 2002 - Worlds Seattle 2002 - GenCon UK 2002 - Gym Challenge Lucca (IT) 2002 - Gym Stadium Antwerp 2003

http://www.pokemonteambelgium.be.tf

POKEMON TEAM BELGIUM
BattleZone BRUSSELS - Belgium loves Pokemon too ! ! !

From: Brussels - Belgium | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged

Whizkiddo

Member # 86856

posted September 23, 2002 08:08 AM