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Author
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Topic: Why Nintendo will lose a lot of players now...
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PojosamaWannabe
Member
Member # 74186
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posted June 15, 2003 05:49 AM
You may only retreat once a turn.
Well...that sucks. I personally hate that new rule. The others (maybe not 2v2) are good for the game and balance out a lot of scenarios. But retreating once a turn...
It doesn't seem like such a big deal. I can name 5 times in a tournament that retreating 2, maybe 3 times a turn has resulted in a big prize.
On another board, the new rule changes were brought up and about half of the players were angered and seriously considered quitting. I for one, think this rule alone will change the game so much, players will just straight out quit.
Am I making too big of a deal of this little rule change? Perhaps, but I know a lot of people who think this is so game changing that it is worth quitting the game we've played for 4 years.
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Winner of Cedar Grove AQ SBZ
Winner of Rockefeller Center SK SBZ
DCI Rating: 1814+?
From: Central New Jersey | Registered: Mar 2002
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted June 15, 2003 06:01 AM
only being allowed to retreat once per turn....
interesting. turns down the power of all that baby/free retreat support that decks currently run.
Is it good , bad, or just different? only time will tell.
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From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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TheRealWobbuffet
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Member # 123066
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posted June 15, 2003 06:15 AM
These are the exact same new rules (as far as I can see) as the ones that were released when ADV1 came out in January. I don't think they lost a lot of players in Japan, so I would hope they wouldn't lose a lot here. If anything, we're keeping the game more consistant with the original (other than making the adv cards e-cards, but I like that anyway), and that's pretty cool, IMO.
Registered: Jan 2003
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PhoenixSong
Member
Member # 120501
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posted June 15, 2003 06:39 AM
Where are the new rules?
From: FL | Registered: Jan 2003
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PojosamaWannabe
Member
Member # 74186
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posted June 15, 2003 06:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by TheRealWobbuffet:
These are the exact same new rules (as far as I can see) as the ones that were released when ADV1 came out in January. I don't think they lost a lot of players in Japan, so I would hope they wouldn't lose a lot here. If anything, we're keeping the game more consistant with the original (other than making the adv cards e-cards, but I like that anyway), and that's pretty cool, IMO.
Why change a basic rule that has been in effect since Day 1 of the TCG? There is no point in changing something that works.
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Winner of Cedar Grove AQ SBZ
Winner of Rockefeller Center SK SBZ
DCI Rating: 1814+?
From: Central New Jersey | Registered: Mar 2002
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted June 15, 2003 07:09 AM
Well, it definately will have a major impact on teh play of the game and will make Switch a staple card!
Is it worth quitting over?
I think it's a bit early for people to throw a hissy fit over. It changes the strategy of the game, yes. It takes away some existing strategies, but it also introduces the strategy of making a hard choice over when to retreat and when not to.
I reserve judgement on it.
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Registered: Feb 2001
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Dark and Vile
Member # 74653
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posted June 15, 2003 07:16 AM
Regarding multiple retreats, I typically do it only to cure a special condition.
But this will essentially break the non-holo Suicune/Double Gust combo that is currently teched into so many decks.
What are the other strategies the demand multiple retreats in one turn? (I'm thinking there are energy swap/Nurse/Center combos that retreat multple times that will be affected by this new rule)
From: Melbourne, FL | Registered: Apr 2002
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Taichi
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Member # 13564
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posted June 15, 2003 07:26 AM
I think there's a reason for making this rule. If you play the GB games, you will know that when you retreat your pokemon, you lose your turn to attack.
From: Toronto, Ont | Registered: Apr 2001
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PojosamaWannabe
Member
Member # 74186
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posted June 15, 2003 08:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Taichi:
I think there's a reason for making this rule. If you play the GB games, you will know that when you retreat your pokemon, you lose your turn to attack.
Yes, but this isn't the GB Game and if we made it into the game, I bet it would be less fun.
Pop- Yes, it is too early to tell and I may have jumped the gun, but the idea of changing such a major concept of many decks and ideas, IMHO, is ludicrous.
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Winner of Cedar Grove AQ SBZ
Winner of Rockefeller Center SK SBZ
DCI Rating: 1814+?
From: Central New Jersey | Registered: Mar 2002
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KYDAD
Member # 30575
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posted June 15, 2003 08:30 AM
quote:
What are the other strategies the demand multiple retreats in one turn?
My deck at the last SBZ used a strategy that had me retreating 3+ times every turn. It used Aquapolis Electrode's Super Dynamo power. When Electrode is active it gives a flip to attach an energy from the discard to one of my pokes. So I put a Dodrio on the bench so Electrode could retreat freely, and each turn sent 3-4 electrodes to the active spot and flipped to get an energy. Powers up Exeggcutor real fast.
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Kentucky Dad
From: Crestwood, KY, US | Registered: Jul 2001
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WizPog_PokeMom
Member # 113273
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posted June 15, 2003 08:34 AM
*sigh* Don't we hear this same argument EVERY TIME some kind of change is made to the game? Whether it is the poison ruling, legal sets removed from Modified format, etc. etc. etc? "This is gonna ruin MY decks, I'm quitting the game"... ![[Roll Eyes]](../tcg/rolleyes.gif)
Change is good...and necessary...for the game, or it will stagnate. Instead of using the same-old same-old decks and strategies, we'll have to THINK of new things...what's 'bad' about that?
/rant mode off ![[Blush]](../tcg/graemlins/blush.gif)
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From: San Diego, CA --location of WCSTS-2001 and West Stadium Challenge 2002 | Registered: Nov 2002
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PojosamaWannabe
Member
Member # 74186
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posted June 15, 2003 08:41 AM
Mom- This isn't like changing the poison rule to weaken Metal Energy or drawing less cards for a mulligan... This is a huge rule change that changes the basic rules that were established from the start of the TCG. It eliminates deck ideas and cards from seeing play. This rule doesn't even effect Tier 1 decks so it's not benefitting the competition.
The game changes enough per set with new trainers, pokemon, and energy cards to keep the game moving from set to set. Cards from AQ are just being discovered now to be used in decks. Everything is always changing.
There is no point of changing the retreating rule what_so_ever.
Also, the deck I play is not affected by this rule change at all so I am not saying this to complain about my deck losing power, etc.
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Winner of Cedar Grove AQ SBZ
Winner of Rockefeller Center SK SBZ
DCI Rating: 1814+?
From: Central New Jersey | Registered: Mar 2002
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TheRealWobbuffet
Member
Member # 123066
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posted June 15, 2003 08:46 AM
Sure, it eliminates some decks, but not all. And so what can you do? Come up with new decks. Change is needed, the game will get boring without change, as everything else in life does.
Registered: Jan 2003
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted June 15, 2003 09:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dark and Vile:
But this will essentially break the non-holo Suicune/Double Gust combo that is currently teched into so many decks.
I don't think so. Remember, the Double Gust doesn't count as a Retreat, and you can then still do your one retreat to bring up your main hitter.
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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
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jesschow12
Member # 70624
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posted June 15, 2003 09:15 AM
i hate this 1 retreat per turn,that makes the game like dumb
then those cards such as mirage stadium are useless to the rule
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From: singapore | Registered: Mar 2002
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xecutioner1592
Member
Member # 145561
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posted June 15, 2003 09:22 AM
sorry if im not entirely up-to-speed here, but does this new ruling only apply to retreat costs? (i.e. baby manipulation, and discarding that recycle to retreat a a gusted furret) Therefore, am I right in saying that trainers and warp energy aren't affected by this ruling? If so, then I see no real problem with it; as long as you have sufficient draw with which to access your double-gusts,switches etc.
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x_C
From: Slough, England | Registered: Jun 2003
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PojosamaWannabe
Member
Member # 74186
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posted June 15, 2003 09:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by xecutioner1592:
sorry if im not entirely up-to-speed here, but does this new ruling only apply to retreat costs? (i.e. baby manipulation, and discarding that recycle to retreat a a gusted furret) Therefore, am I right in saying that trainers and warp energy aren't affected by this ruling? If so, then I see no real problem with it; as long as you have sufficient draw with which to access your double-gusts,switches etc.
Nintendo just changed a rule that has stood for 4 years. Retreating during your turn should be unlimited as long as you pay the cost. Its a fair trade off, you retreat you pay energy.
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Winner of Cedar Grove AQ SBZ
Winner of Rockefeller Center SK SBZ
DCI Rating: 1814+?
From: Central New Jersey | Registered: Mar 2002
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted June 15, 2003 10:07 AM
I really don't see what the huge issue is here. It's not like this is the only time the rules have changed. I think a little shake-up every now and then is a good thing. Besides, how often do you really have to retreat multiple times in a turn? Except for a double gust, not often.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted June 15, 2003 10:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PojosamaWannabe:
Nintendo just changed a rule that has stood for 4 years. Retreating during your turn should be unlimited as long as you pay the cost. Its a fair trade off, you retreat you pay energy.
Nintendo did not change a thing from anything Japan has done. Japan did the same exact thing when ADV1 came out. If you want to complain to anyone, complain to the designers in Japan. You must understand that Nintendo is just translating and marketing the cards. They have little say or to do in the research and development of these cards. Down the line they might be able to do stuff like WotC's unreleased Jamboree set. But for now, they dont do anything but translate, produce, and market the cards to North America. From what I've heard from sources, TPC is still picking international partners to fill Nintendo's shoes over in Europe and other areas.
These changes are reflecting the Gameboy game. Every aspect of this game is influenced by the popular Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal, Ruby, and Sapphire game carts. Six Pokemon only allowed in play? Just like the game. New 2 VS 2 rules? Just like Ruby and Sapphire. Special Conditions? With the new rules, exactly like the games.
Other rules were put in place to fix previous problems and future conflicts. We have not seen what EX Ruby and Sapphire cards will do to the enviroment. These rules are in place to make sure those cards work as the designers wanted. I think were jumping the gun complaining about the rules now.
Besides, we are not going to have to worry about older cards in Modified. Most will rotated out most likely. The only thing that it changes is Unlimited. And for anyone who has ever played Unlimited, including myself, these new rules will change the format making it enjoyable.
TPC has always been keen on allowing players of all ages and different homes to play together. Rules have to be the same for players to play together.
I understand how people like yourself Pojosama Wannabe might have taken alot of time and money spending looking for cards for your deck and now those cards will be less effective with the new rules. However, if you want to stay competitive with the game, you must keep up with the new sets and rules. If you want to play with older cards, thats fine too, casual play is just as fun. Magic: The Gathering, the first and still successful trading card game has had its rules edited and changed. People complained and a few older players left, but its still around. This is just a minor hurdle were all going to have to jump over and its going to be interesting to see how it shapes the metagame in events after WotC is done with the license.
Look at all the older cards that are now good? IMO, the glass is half full, not empty.
-Phil
[ June 15, 2003, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: GymLeaderPhil ]
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ShadowCard
Member # 2104
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posted June 15, 2003 12:48 PM
Weren't those new rules designed for the new multiplayer format they have? perhaps a new format will be placed here with just those rules (with 2 active pokemon instead of 1, i can see how retreating more than once can be a big deal) and the current play format will remain the same (mostly).
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Prime
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Member # 102940
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posted June 15, 2003 01:01 PM
That is what is confusing. I have heard that in regular play, you have 2 active and 4 on the bench but then I have heard that only in 2v2 play that you have 2 active and 4 on the bench. Until we get a rulebook from one of those decks, we might just guess on it.
Retreating once per turn. Nice. I always love to see something big added to the game. It makes all the cards we passed over in the past wanting of another pass over and look at. More strategies will be made to affectivly use this and abuse this and the game will go on like it always does. Too bad, we won't be able to play these rules for a whole 3 days. Heh ![[Smile]](../tcg/smile.gif) Status Effects will RISE now, being as you wont be able to free retreat the poison off of it. People will play each retreat as if it were laying an energy, very specificly. Can't wait.
And I'd like to add in that I won't be leaving the game for one extra ruling. Sure it might change how we play but change is always nice when there hasn't been any in along time. Sure we will have to play differently but we will get over it and it will bring to new decks that none of use every thought about before.
[ June 15, 2003, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Prime ]
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From: Asheville, North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2002
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Ianitis
Member
Member # 99106
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posted June 15, 2003 02:04 PM
omg, there are limits to how much they can change the rules, I mean, i don't care it they want to "expand" game play and strategy, there are features in the game they should and should not tamper with, retreating IS something that should DEFINATELY not be touched...
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Freddy K
Member # 24380
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posted June 15, 2003 02:07 PM
quote:
Change is good...and necessary...for the game, or it will stagnate. Instead of using the same-old same-old decks and strategies, we'll have to THINK of new things...what's 'bad' about that?
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From: Slough, England UK | Registered: May 2001
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ShadowCard
Member # 2104
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posted June 15, 2003 03:39 PM
i agree with Ianitis. there should be limits to how much the game can be changed. retreating should be one of those things that shouldn't be touched. All pokemon shall have unalienable rights and one of those is the right to retreat (at least once) ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif) .
[ June 15, 2003, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: ShadowCard ]
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BobandWaldo
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Member # 125486
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posted June 15, 2003 03:52 PM
I don't see why people are thinking of quiting just because a rule changed.
You can still use switch and double gust, so i don't think its that much of a problem.
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