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Author
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Topic: is pokemon startintg to turn into a magic base??
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted July 12, 2002 04:30 PM
DGL, you're absolutely right. I mean, I've done all kinds of crazy stuff for my league (most recently the above stuffed animal day). GLs have to be able to deal with problems and needs of the individual league. That's what makes them leaders.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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Xeodus
Member # 58404
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posted July 12, 2002 06:22 PM
I personally do not feel that TPC will strip WotC of the license when it comes time because of certain players in this game with bad sportsmanship values. This game does not revolve around these players. The game revolves around good sports that know how to play the game well, and help others and the community of the game. That portion of players is much stronger than these so-called "1337" players. (I'm so sick of seeing those numbers)
As long as WotC continues to sell product, which it is doing, WotC will still continue on with Pokeman. I really don't think the game will "end" due to a few bad seeds at leagues and tournaments. You might lose a player or two or three from these 1337-minded players from a league every couple of weeks, but that won't kill the game. What will kill the game is lack of sales and interest, and the game is still in particularly high interest.
SD_Pokemom: What you posted in this topic about the license I feel shouldn't be restricted to this forum. Maybe you should post that entire reply in News Discussion, or a location where many would get to it. Specifically those in question.
quote:
all who talk l33t are not all bad citizens. Its like saying all the german speaking people are bad because of Hitler. I just wanted to make that clear.
I have to agree with this. Just because a few "1337" players might trash-talk a few, or might have a bad attitude about losing in a tournament, doesn't mean they are bad people.
Let me give an example.
One of the biggest names in this whole dispute (I'll leave him nameless anyway) attended a tournament I held. We had a very low tournament, and while I was still taking registrations for the tournament, and checking decks, he decided to sit down with a fairly new player, and have a few fun games with him, and help him out playing, so he[the new player] could get a better grasp of things. He whipped out a draft deck he had from a draft the night before, and played him in about 3-4 games. When the kid played a card incorrectly, and chose an attack which would hurt him more than help him, This name pointed out to the player how the card worked, and what would be better for the situation. In the 4th game, This new player defeated him. The infamous name didn't freak out, or did he even play easier. He congratulated the kid and shook his hand. In the long run, This infamous name helped out this child very much, and the child appreciated it very much. Infact, I'm sure those games helped the child alot, because now he is twice as good then he was before then.
It's not easy to determine who people are unless you speak with them in person, and know what they are all about, and SEE how they actually act first-hand in crowds of play. Human senses can tell apart a good one, from a bad one.
[ July 12, 2002, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Xeodus ]
From: Michigan | Registered: Jan 2002
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CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak
Member # 37400
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posted July 12, 2002 06:23 PM
DGL: Weird League formats are a good idea--I agree with you 100% if you are not using that for your end of season tourmanets! I like the idea of Age-Modified swiss as well -- it does sort of take away from the cutthroat play. But then I asked myself: "Self, if you were acting as a hardcore player, what would this tell you to do?" Simple--play cutthroat until you have all the promos for the season, then back off with the cutthroat play. Until the promo system doesn't reward sheer wins it helps but does not fully heal the problem. Great start though. (Our old GL, the one from Toys R Us, gave double points to anyone using a Modified deck.) *coughGatrcough*
IPGeek21:
"The N00bs who can't win FIX their deck. They play against all other type of players."
Right. Usually it's the hardcore players that are helping them fix their deck and donating cards they have extras of (such as Oak, regular Energy Removal, Tyrogue, Gligar, and the like.)
"I for one tho won't play everyone. My problem is I am too busy PLAY-testing that I don't want to play against anyone WHO IS NOT competitive because what good will that do. *I know bad for me*"
Only one problem with this logic. I have a system that lets me playtest and earn League points at the same time. I have a battle session with my close friends (whom are all great deckbuilders IMO) at a local restaurant on another day. That is when we playtest touranment decks whether it be for a Wizards-sanctioned event or an unusual format that the GL enforces for a "special tournament" (NOT the end-of-season tournament!)
If you can find the extra time, it definitely helps to split the time up. (I mean I work 25-40 hours a week depending on the week, and can make time for these sessions. When I get into college, they schedule me however I want when I work there so I can make ALL leagues and ALL battle sessions at said local restaurant.)
Slightly-off topic ending: IPGeek -- I can see that Pokemon is a big part of your life. However, if Pokemon IS your life, you will not only be able to, but will never put yourself in a position where you can not rearrange your schedule in all aspects of life to help Pokemon out: Your work schedule, relationship with a significant other, and so on. (Actually, if Pokemon IS your life, your significant other is as into it as you are, otherwise they wouldn't be with ya.)
Thanks for the feedback.
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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.
Viva la unoriginality!
From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
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FireFighter09
Member # 3040
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posted July 12, 2002 08:42 PM
Basically the games licence renewal will depend on a few things:
.Game support
.the way the gamnes atmosphere reflects the games image.
.sales
.The way the game has been running
As i see is,if the rest of pokemon is like it was at origins the game is desitined to be buried by january because wizards may be trying to hold the game out but it dosent look bright unless the people who act to competitive lighten up and the arrogance dissapers. Right now the game is turning towards new ownership. Imagine if wizards loses their licence.
.No more Pokegym
.No more MT'S
.No more pokemon chats
.No more team compendium
.No more dci ratings
The gane will be stripped of all its fun and it will have nothing left to smile about. People have to learn that this game is as much fun as it is competition and even though sometimes people get a bit overcompetitive it cant be a frequent thing and if it is the game will be destroyed.
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From: Pittsburgh,pa 15212 | Registered: Mar 2001
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GreatFox
Member # 77642
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posted July 12, 2002 08:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Xeodus:
One of the biggest names in this whole dispute (I'll leave him nameless anyway) attended a tournament I held. We had a very low tournament, and while I was still taking registrations for the tournament, and checking decks, he decided to sit down with a fairly new player, and have a few fun games with him, and help him out playing, so he[the new player] could get a better grasp of things. He whipped out a draft deck he had from a draft the night before, and played him in about 3-4 games. When the kid played a card incorrectly, and chose an attack which would hurt him more than help him, This name pointed out to the player how the card worked, and what would be better for the situation. In the 4th game, This new player defeated him. The infamous name didn't freak out, or did he even play easier. He congratulated the kid and shook his hand. In the long run, This infamous name helped out this child very much, and the child appreciated it very much. Infact, I'm sure those games helped the child alot, because now he is twice as good then he was before then.
I don't think these are the kind of people we refer to as "l337". He is mearly a really good player (A High Level Trainer as it were) that by the sounds of things should also be a Professor.
The People we refer to as l337ist are those that are not only high level trainers but also trash talk and redicule those of a lower level then they are. They are rude beyond any sense and don;t care for the feeling of others or care who are around them at the time they are behaving rudely.
It is these people that are causing a big problem in the Pokémon Community and are tarnishing the game and community's good name.
Anyway... back to the subject... I like the idea about using unusual formats.... (Ash's rejects... thats not really alot.... just Butterfree (+Caterpie and Metapod), Pidgiot (+Pidgy and Pidgioto), Lapras, Squrtle, and Charizard (+Charmelion and Charmander)... 1 grass, 2 Water, 1 Colorless, and 1 Fire Type.... boy, thats hard to make a deck that works with just those cards....
I'll have to try some stuff like that next time...
.
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From: Los Angeles, California | Registered: Apr 2002
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted July 12, 2002 09:12 PM
Yes, people need to realize that power is not something used to control, rather it is something used to help those from whom our power is derived (in this context and in general, of course-there are exceptions).
Perhaps that is a good line for a possible professor t-shirt (hint, hint). ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif)
[ July 13, 2002, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: yoshi1001 ]
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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lance313
Member # 1891
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posted July 13, 2002 12:24 AM
In reviewing this thread, it is obvious that the game will NOT go the way of Magic, as the 'base' is of entirely different makeup. While there are some that want it to become more competitive (which is not the style for this game), there are many more that see it as what it is - a family (the kid's game moniker is long buried, IRL if not formally) game. If someone isn't satisfied with the direction of the prize structure, they are free to move over to M:TG. Maybe they don't because they are not as good as they want everyone to believe, and they are only able to be 1337 in this game because most people play to have fun, not to 'kill'. That's why they want the prizes to go up - 'cause they think they can clean up. Little do they know, but if the prize structure went up, so would the level of competition and the RELs of tournaments. If they got their wish and the game became more competitively hardcore, they might be surprised to find they were left in the dust, and that their 'work' didn't benefit them at all.
That's why they are decrying the change in formats. They lose out some stature until they adapt. What do they think would happen if 'serious' players came over from Magic or other games to get in some of the action?
As to the other theme running in this thread, I agree that it is better served by becoming a new thread in another forum able to be commented on ad discussed by a wider range of members than just Professors. News and Discussion seems the appropriate forum to do this.
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Proud member/founder of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001
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Xeodus
Member # 58404
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posted July 13, 2002 04:37 PM
quote:
I don't think these are the kind of people we refer to as "l337". He is mearly a really good player (A High Level Trainer as it were) that by the sounds of things should also be a Professor.
He had his professorship removed due to recent actions involving impersonations. I told you this person was an infamous name. Everyone can probably just figure out who I'm talking about now.
From: Michigan | Registered: Jan 2002
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CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak
Member # 37400
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posted July 14, 2002 06:23 AM
Lance, I'll go into more detail on the News + Discussion post but I tend to disagree. The players that would want to move to Magic to get better prizes probably don't want to spend a year learning Magic like they did Pokemon. They're most likely also fearing the lack of major card drawing. The only thing appealing to a "hardcore Pokemon player looking toward Magic" is the possibility of an unblockable FTK, 90% of the time, not only in casual matches but at the tournaments as the well. (Reference: Tolarian Academy, the card that should never have been banned)
A higher prize structure COULD work here. You're saying it would turn everyone hardcore -- maybe there just aren't enough hardcore players here to begin with? What's the percentage now? 10? 20? 25 at most?
I see no problem with upping that to 30-40-45. If there ia a 5-round tourney, 32 people, and 15% of them are hardcore (let's say 4), and assuming a hardcore player vs. a casual player is an easy win, the hardcore players will most likely get 3 wins without even trying. Is that right? No! But if there were 40% hardcore players (13) Then QUITE A FEW of those matches would be hard-earned wins for the players that won them. It would do the following as well:
*Challenge the current players who THINK they can not be defeated to do better (reforming the 1337's perhaps?)
*More players will be at Leagues to give newer players deck advice (better chance of stopping one hardcore player out of 10 from playing for a while for deck advice than if there were only 1 or 2)
*A challenge to the Rogue deck players from my pro-archetypical mind, body, and soul: Sure it is one thing to say you did well with a rogue deck but let's see it happen through round after round after round with people firing well-TecHed major archetypes at you.
More shall be covered in the open forum, but just some food for thought.
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What, like the pro-archetype attitude is supposed to be restricted to THIS company, and THIS TCG?
All card games run on archetypes. Magic is 90% archetypes. YGO is 90% archetypes. Pokemon was, for the most part, all archetypes before and during MF2. Pokemon will be archetype-based during MF3. Pokemon will be archetype based when it is under Nintendo.
Viva la unoriginality!
From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Skywolf1
Member # 1448
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posted July 14, 2002 11:05 AM
Ever since the "Dallas Brawl" of two years ago, this game and the "15+" division have been on unstable ground. Why? Because of the "ME, ME, ME" attitude taken by some very high level "players" of this game. We have a very high level player who took home the grand prize at Origins, and has done some very "unsavory" things.
This MUST STOP, and NOW. Don't we all want the same thing? Don't we all want this game to survive? Well, if we do really CARE about this game, like some people in this community claim they do, then WE better DAMN well start showing that we DESERVE to have our own division. Right now, like a very distinguished collegue that recently quit the game had said, "If we don't, this game has 18 months left in it."
Truth is, we have got until March of 2002 to prove to TPC and WotC that we really DESERVE to be a part of this game. Because, if WotC doesn't get the contract, and say, Nintendo does. It will be too late, and this game will be a passing memory by this time next year!
I ask you all again, is that what you want? Do you WANT this game to die? Many of you may not agree on many of the things that I post on the WizPOG forum, and quite frankly, I DON'T CARE. However, these petty squabbles are getting us nowhere, NOR are they helping the game.
So, "Why can't we all get along?"
Skywolf1
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From: Las Vegas, Nevada USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted July 14, 2002 11:24 AM
This discussion is so polarized, and each side's actions seems to reinforce the other's. I fear what would happen were that energy to be suddenly released.
That is all I have to say at the moment.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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sithlordcrobat
Member # 80640
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posted July 15, 2002 03:25 PM
I just have a couple of quick comments.
1. WotC is making a PROFIT for TPC. Remember, this is a business. WotC will not lose the license because of a small group of people who are acting like teenagers have always acted. Remember, we were all teenagers once.
2. I judged at Origins for four days. Mike, the TO, said the Pokemon numbers were almost DOUBLE what they were the previous year. We had hardly any problems. Most of the players had a great time. That means more participation, more money.
3. Less talk, more action. We can sit on the board and debate all day. My question is, what are YOU doing about it? DGL is experimenting in trying to bring more kids into the league. This is done with the new formats; TMP, drafts, sealed play, etc...
4. The game will not end if WotC does lose the license. Decipher lost the Star Wars license, did that game die? As a volunteer for PES during Origins, I can tell you that there was as many SWTCG players playing the WotC version as there was the Decipher version. And in my opinion, the game improved during the process.
The bottom line is....the bottom line. WotC makes money for TPC, why rid yourself of something that produces a profit? ![[Bored]](../tcg/graemlins/dozey.gif)
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From: Dayton, OH | Registered: Apr 2002
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FireFighter09
Member # 3040
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posted July 17, 2002 12:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sithlordcrobat:
I just have a couple of quick comments.
1. WotC is making a PROFIT for TPC. Remember, this is a business. WotC will not lose the license because of a small group of people who are acting like teenagers have always acted. Remember, we were all teenagers once.
2. I judged at Origins for four days. Mike, the TO, said the Pokemon numbers were almost DOUBLE what they were the previous year. We had hardly any problems. Most of the players had a great time. That means more participation, more money.
3. Less talk, more action. We can sit on the board and debate all day. My question is, what are YOU doing about it? DGL is experimenting in trying to bring more kids into the league. This is done with the new formats; TMP, drafts, sealed play, etc...
4. The game will not end if WotC does lose the license. Decipher lost the Star Wars license, did that game die? As a volunteer for PES during Origins, I can tell you that there was as many SWTCG players playing the WotC version as there was the Decipher version. And in my opinion, the game improved during the process.
The bottom line is....the bottom line. WotC makes money for TPC, why rid yourself of something that produces a profit?
Its not the money made its the actions in the game and how the game is running with its image. Pokemon in the beggining was a gme where kids 7-14 can come and play and have fun and enjoy. Back in 1998 Wizards decided the pokemon TCG needs a boost and added the 15+. This caused many problems and 2 years later for a brief time they stripped the game of the 15+. Apon its return they gave us limited options and caused up to straigten up. This year our better actions and judgements gave us back trips. Now lets go back to the focus at hand. The origional meaning of pokemon was for it to be a FUN,ENJOYABLE game for everyone. Now that small group is growing by the day and the problem is TPC will strip Wizards of thier licence if this goes on and noone knows what will happen then. ![[Confused]](../tcg/confused.gif)
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"No Surrender"
Motto of the FireFighters.
First Master Professor From New York and Pnnsylvania!
Top this record:
ECSTS 2000
ECSTS 2001
Milford Gym Challenge 2001
WCSTS 2001
ECSC
CSC
Milford Gym Challenge 2002
WCSC
Origins 2002
Wolrds
GenCon
Coming soon:
Origins 2003
Gencon hopefully
Need someoen to share room cost with at gencon. if you can help email me at [email protected] ^_^
From: Pittsburgh,pa 15212 | Registered: Mar 2001
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sithlordcrobat
Member # 80640
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posted July 17, 2002 03:14 PM
FF09 - I completely agree with you. This was meant to be a fun game, and it IS a fun game. I enjoy it completely. I guess my main point was that there will be other factors that determine if WotC will keep the license, other than what that small group has done. ![[Smile]](../tcg/smile.gif)
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From: Dayton, OH | Registered: Apr 2002
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Tempo Stratoblaster
Member # 383
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posted July 18, 2002 06:53 AM
Actually, renewal of the Pokemon License is simple to predict:
Whoever is willing to pay the most will get it.
If Ninentdo is willing to pay more for the license than WOTC or if someone else is willing to pay more, then they will get it.
With that said, I hope it stays with WOTC.
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From: Houston, TX | Registered: Feb 2001
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted July 19, 2002 12:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tempo Stratoblaster:
Whoever is willing to pay the most will get it.
Nah...not that simple.
WotC has the infrastructure in place to keep sales up for longer. WotC's OP and track record might make it more attractive to TPC even IF someone else offers a bit more.
WotC has done a good job so far, overall. Another company with no OP nor experience with TCG's might well just drag the whole thing down. TPC won't wanna risk that for a fairly small difference in the license fee... I HOPE...
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From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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