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Author
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Topic: 2 Against 1 Team play...
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted March 14, 2002 11:10 AM
THIS really really really scared me. It happened a few times (you know that BAD hand) *ahem LONE Brock's Mankey...*
One player got benched for only being able to DRAW one starting pokemon during team play.
AS of now 1 PLAYER all alone then gets 2 face 2 opponents.
IS THAT FAIR? WILL there ever be a case of that ONE person beating the other 2 opponents? (a close games?)
I propose this:
The game can continue the way it had been outlined.
FROM THE player's deck, remove the bottom # of cards as PRIZES equal to the # of prizes the teammate who was eliminated had out.
but in addition:
If it was SO early in the game and THE game is not even close COULD this teammate RETURN to the match BUT with THIS penalty:
The eliminated player MAY return to the match on their next would be 'turn' but in addition to the extra prize cards his/her teammate had to put in play THE returning player will have to put in play 3 PRIZES again (as in the beginning of the game.)
WHAT do you think? C'mon The player can return ALL those additional pokemon/trainers to help their partner BUT must PAY a steep prize (up to 9 TOTAL prizes now)
WHAT do you think? What do you propose?
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From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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general surge
Member # 584
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posted March 14, 2002 11:19 AM
It sounds to me like it would be to judgemental. like, how would you figure out WHAT IS EARLY and WHAT IS A CLOSE GAME? those two reasons alone will keep this from becoming part of the format.
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From: West Haven,Ct USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Professor Warbuzz
Member # 60431
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posted March 14, 2002 11:33 AM
I agree with you about a starting bad hand can cost you the game in turn one or two.
I think an additional 3 prizes is a bit steep. Plus the game can extend for quite a long time.
What I've done in the past, is let the player that would be droped for play, continue to draw a card on their turn and try to recover.
Maybe the teammate can offer an elm or something to help in them recover.
Mail from bill anyone?
??? What do you think ???
[ March 14, 2002, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Professor Warbuzz ]
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From: East Los Angeles, CA | Registered: Jan 2002
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Professor Warbuzz
Member # 60431
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posted March 14, 2002 11:35 AM
If the rules stay as is then I think the best solution is for each deck to contain lots of basics or lots of trainers. More basics is the best solution IMO.
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted March 14, 2002 01:18 PM
WELL it is a VERY steep cost for that reason... the TEAM must decide if it is WHAT they choose to do... it is NOT up to a third party or judge to decide...
YEAH but you never know... even with more pokes? Does not matter how many you have WHEN it is only one and it is that one TecH Genesis Aipom?
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From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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ukpokemonpro
Member # 518
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posted March 14, 2002 01:42 PM
I gotta say that given the bad draws happen in single player games too that we shouldn't change the team format for that.
If the draw is bad because the deck is bad fix it, if its the 1 in 5 bad draw live with it!
Otherwise I think the team play idea is kinda fun... I will be trying it out next week at the league .. let you know what the players think.
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From: Gillingham, Kent, UK | Registered: Feb 2001
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Chrisbo
Member # 9
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posted March 14, 2002 04:46 PM
I've played two matches so far where one of the teammates was eliminated early, and the result from that point on was a 2-against-1 massacre. The game is very unbalanced when this happens and there is little chance of the lone player to survive having only one turn while the opposing team gets two turns to "gang up on him/her".
Here are a couple of ideas for general consideration that may (or may not) help to balance out the situation when one player gets eliminated:
1.> Have the team with two players remaining alternate their turns with the lone player. For example, Player A-1, then Player B (the loner), then Player A-2, then Player B again, then A-1, B, A-2, B, etc.
2.> Allow the eliminated player to keep on playing; they cannot attack without any Pokemon (naturally), but they could still use trainers, etc. in hopes of "getting back in the game". Or perhaps the eliminated player could be restricted so that they cannot play any cards until they get a Pokemon into their active slot.
Just thinkin' out loud,
- CHRISBO
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From: Orange County, CA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Ditto
Member # 955
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posted March 15, 2002 04:47 AM
I have to agree with ukpokemonpro. Losing a player is suposed to be a big disadvantage. The object is to suport each and enhance the abilitys of each others deck. Now I know that sometimes there isn't much you can do about it at the begining, but like ukpokemonpro said, it's the same as one-on-one. Also you'd be surprised at how well the lone player can do sometimes. It's a lot harder but I've even won games before like this (me being the lone player). I don't think we should change the rules for this format just because of some unlucky event that happens even in the normal play. JMHO
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From: St. Peters, MO, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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old man
Member # 28
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posted March 15, 2002 07:34 AM
I too have seen a player knocked out early, (1st or 2nd turn) & feel it's not very fair, so here's a rule we are trying in that regard. I made this up before we got the current WotC format.
Each player will start the game with at least 2 Pokemon, (1 active & 1 on bench). If after your opening hand a player does not have 2 Pokemon, (baby or basic), they have to search their deck to get a 2nd Pokemon. After the search shuffle & re-cut. If this happens to 1 player or both players on the same team, then their opponents get to draw 1 prize, or 2 if it happened to both players. If this happens to 1 player from each team then no prizes are drawn. The order of getting 2 Pokemon is the same as the order of play. No prizes are drawn until each player has 2 Pokemon.
Too confusing? I don't think so.
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From: Del City, OK, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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BJJ763
Member # 158
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posted March 15, 2002 07:46 AM
The same thing can happen in a regular battle! In that case it's an easy win.....
old man that's an interesting rule but rewards the player with only 1 Pokémon as it allows them to get any Pokémon they want. Sure their opponent gets a prize but still it's like a reward for them.
You could always change the Mulligan rule so that instead of needing to have a Basic in your hand, you must have 2 Basics. If not, you reshuffle and redraw. Your opponent then draws up to 2 cards.
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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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lance313
Member # 1891
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posted March 16, 2002 12:25 AM
I agree with the 'like single player' analogy. If alone, you lose your single Poké, you lose. Your team is at a disadvantage. Let's see how 'Gatr does by itself.
I too was also concerned about the inequities of two turns vs. one turn. In the six team games I saw last week, two ended up in the two against one early in the game. But I also noted it could just as easily have ended up as one-on-one. This suggests that the odds should even out for games of this type. No FTKOs, but the two against one is the team play equivalent. Almost.
The solution is the same as preventing FTKOs - more basic Pokémon. Or live with the potential of your team getting 'ganged' up on. And I did see that the two games where it was two against one did take q while to be completed. One even took longer than the other two vs two game, even though the lone player eventually succumbed.
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From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted March 16, 2002 06:39 AM
I, for one see no problem with the "power play" situation. I do admit that i am generally the benefactor of that situation, which may limit my objectivity. If I were to make a ruling change, this would be it:
"The eliminated player may assist his/her teammate in playing, although the teammate still makes all final decisions."
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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professormariah
Member # 69558
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posted March 16, 2002 09:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Chrisbo:
1.> Have the team with two players remaining alternate their turns with the lone player. For example, Player A-1, then Player B (the loner), then Player A-2, then Player B again, then A-1, B, A-2, B, etc.
2.> Allow the eliminated player to keep on playing; they cannot attack without any Pokemon (naturally), but they could still use trainers, etc. in hopes of "getting back in the game". Or perhaps the eliminated player could be restricted so that they cannot play any cards until they get a Pokemon into their active slot.
Those are really good ideas, last night at my league none of the team battles had that occur. The first time that happens I will use those to see how that works. Thanks!! ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif)
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From: LaGrange, Georgia | Registered: Mar 2002
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Otaku
Member # 42359
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posted March 16, 2002 11:19 AM
I haven't had a chance to test the Team PLay rules yet, so this is specualation. I think Chrsibo's ideas sound good, but another idea (in the vein of getting some less used cards to see action) would be to not have the team mate tat is out of Pokemon remove his/her deck. Instead, they stop drawing, but may be brought back into play by any Trainer that revives their k.o.ed Pokemon, upon which they resume normal play. To keep his ability in line, I also propose that the "innactive" player will still be able draw prizes (or perhaps must), but cannot play any cards until brought back into the game as described above. That way, they become dead weight when K.O.ed. Obviously, I have not been able to play test this yet.
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From: Iowa | Registered: Sep 2001
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted March 16, 2002 11:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by GymLeaderPhil:
Or we could adapt the Magic Rules of Pregame Procedures: If you dont like your hand, you may mulligan and then draw one less card. This would solve some problems in Team.
-Phil
I like Phil's idea very much.
I also agree with the idea that players should be accounting for the possibility of starting with a weak lone active by raising the number of Basics in their decks. Also, players must beware of relying on too many weak TecH Pokémon...
This problem can also be offset somewhat by including Good Manners and Master Ball in decks. Simply play one of these and allow your teammate to use it.
Ultimately, it must be the responsibility of the TEAM to be sure that they are able to deploy a viable starting lineup in (nearly) every game. As usual, every decision in deck building involves some tradeoffs. Are you willing to risk a first-turn loss because you have only 8 Basics in your deck in order to play with 34 Trainers? If so, you deserve the losses that may result!
Allowing players who have a lone basic to search for another without playing the cards to do so would be VERY unfair...even with a prize loss. It simply allows players to overstuff their decks with Trainers!
[ March 16, 2002, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: LizardOTC ]
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From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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CPUSrchDiscarding2forOak
Member # 37400
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posted March 16, 2002 11:46 AM
Lizard, you say it like using 34+ Trainers is a bad thing ![[Wink]](../tcg/wink.gif)
Seriously, I agree with the 1-A, 2, 1-B, 2 way of handling Team Battle 2-on-1s. But the idea of having to have a second basic intrigues me, meaning the way of getting to search your deck for a second. Try this:
If you only have one basic, you may search for another basic before the game starts, but one of your opponents gets two cards. (NOT a prize, but two cards)
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From: West Mifflin, PA | Registered: Aug 2001
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Unown Trainer
Member # 24986
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posted March 16, 2002 02:10 PM
I would propose giving the lone player 2 attack chances, but only one turn. I'll give a brief example turn. We'll call the lone player L and the other 2 A and B.
L draws.
L plays whatever he/she wants to play.
L attacks A's Pokemon.
L may now either attack A's Pokemon again or attack B's.
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Junior3691
Member # 1312
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posted March 16, 2002 02:20 PM
I have come across 2 agains 1 Team play, and I think is unfair ...
I propose:
1. In the beginning of gameplay. Each player draws 7 cards. If s/he have only 0-1 basic pokemon, s/he may choose to show his/her hand to his/her opponent and re-shuffle his/her hand into his/her library.
2. Opponets choose to draw 2 cards, due to mulligan.
3. Reapeat steps 1-2 until player gets 2 or more basic pokemon in his/her hand or has chosen to play with only 1 basic pokemon in his/her hand.
Basically, what I'm saying is that if you have only 1 basic pokemon it will be cosidered as a mulligan. IMO, it would stop FTKO in TMP...
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From: Yuma, AZ | Registered: Feb 2001
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Unown Trainer
Member # 24986
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posted March 16, 2002 05:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Junior3691:
I have come across 2 agains 1 Team play, and I think is unfair ...
I propose:
1. In the beginning of gameplay. Each player draws 7 cards. If s/he have only 0-1 basic pokemon, s/he may choose to show his/her hand to his/her opponent and re-shuffle his/her hand into his/her library.
2. Opponets choose to draw 2 cards, due to mulligan.
3. Reapeat steps 1-2 until player gets 2 or more basic pokemon in his/her hand or has chosen to play with only 1 basic pokemon in his/her hand.
Basically, what I'm saying is that if you have only 1 basic pokemon it will be cosidered as a mulligan. IMO, it would stop FTKO in TMP...
My friends and I have a rule about FTKO, too. It goes like this: If a Pokemon that's being attacked would be KOed on the first round, then that Pokemon survives with 10 HP. In otherwords, all Pokemon have an imaginary Focus Band that always works but it goes away after the first turn around the table.
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Unown Trainer
Typhlosion/Ninetales and/or Metal Arcanine is my prediction to be the next major Fire archtype.
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Registered: Jun 2001
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Ditto
Member # 955
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posted March 17, 2002 09:48 AM
one thing that you all haven't mentioned is the fact that just because you win the coin flip, doesn't mean you have to go first. it means you have the choice to go first. remember the old 4 mewtwos and 56 psychic energy decks? that was about the only reason to choose not to go first if you won the flip. now we have another reason to not go first, since the team that goes first only gets one turn before they go again and the team that goes second gets two turns before they go again. that extra turn might let the player that would be KOed get another basic or a focus band or something. also we could change the rules so that no one can attack on their first turn, just like evolving. just some suggestions.
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From: St. Peters, MO, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted March 17, 2002 08:35 PM
I forget about the Magic's mulligan rule... ahh, THAT makes sense. I wonder if it could be used for Team Play...
AND when one opponent is left that s/he alternate turns between opposing players...
NOW where is MTM and how will we get these ideas to him (well once he is rested up from THIS past weekend)
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From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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