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Author
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Topic: Immaturity and the professorship.
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Aelflaed
Member # 1406
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posted July 12, 2002 11:45 PM
I think my previous "Leet-ist" post stirred up enough of the community to bring this new issue to bear.
This new issue is the immaturity level that is present within the Professor's Program. Personally, and there are others that agree, I think that there really should be a 15-18 category. Truly, in light of recent events, (those that know what I am talking about, know what I am talking about) that age group really doesn't represent the maturity level to convey what the Professorship really represents.
The Professorship should represent a "mentor"-like picture. A Professor is there to help the game grow. To help players of all ages and abilities in their appreciation of the game.
No offense to the 15-18 crowd, I've been there, I know what it's like. But there really is alot of growing up yet to do. I see more of a "me, me, me" attitude at that age, than you would an adult.
I think the 18+ player has grown up and is in it more "for the game". Not just to win prizes and trophies, etc. As an adult, you appreciate the value of passing on information. You realize the larger scope of things. You can see what needs to be done and can react in a positive manner, not just bash.
Flame if you will, I'm an adult and can take it. I do know the consequences of my actions. But, some food for thought, there must be a reason why you have to be 18+ to be a TO.
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Prof. Aelflaed
Co-Founder of:
Team Dead Sneasel - York Comic & Cards, Parma, OH
Another proud member of:
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"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power!" -Abraham Lincoln
From: Parma, OH USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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FireFighter09
Member # 3040
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posted July 13, 2002 12:22 AM
I am an adult like you and i understand fully What you are saying. Many players at the 15-18 age are not ready to take full reposibility of professorship. They should of made the 15-18 area for junior professors and the 18+ as professors. I never target one person i just say that there are players in the 15-18 age group who are at that point where they are me me me and not taking professorship as seriousley as they should. Many professor who are dubbed the name are worthy of it and i think there is that 10% who are out there that dont deaserve the name. I wish all professors took the name seriously but some dont.
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From: Pittsburgh,pa 15212 | Registered: Mar 2001
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lance313
Member # 1891
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posted July 13, 2002 12:35 AM
Well, with the Master Professor program, your ideas are already more or less 'in the works'. The Professors that are trying to further the game and contribute are the ones that will be waering the Master Professor name. Those that became Professors just to play in 15+ and don't contribute will remain at Professor status. Maybe special advanced level tournaments for the MPs are in order as bonuses as well as 'regular' Professor events.
I know at least one <18 Professor. He is not yet ready to fully wear the mentor-Professor crown, but I do see some of what is needed to help the game. I see him working with the younger kids to help them, but also do see that he is still a 'kid'.
Likewise, there are 18+ Professors that do nothing to further the game, and don't necessarily have the emotional acquity yet to be true mentors.
So age alone is not the answer. The Master Professor program appears to be as good as it's going to get to determining real ability AND dedication to the game.
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Proud member/founder of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001
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LizardOTC
Member # 124
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posted July 13, 2002 05:26 AM
Lugia909 once advocated that there be a choice for a player upon reaching the age of 15:
1) Enter the Professor Program, fulfilling all its duties and requirements.
-OR-
2) Enter the (currently nonexistent) 15-18 player division.
I LOVE this idea. It would be great if those who see themselves PRIMARILY as players, and NOT as mentors could choose to pursue playing only.
On the other side of the coin, it would be advantageous to offer really good perks for Master Professors to reward them for organizing and judging tournaments rather than playing in them. (Maybe a special Master Prof Tourney with great prizes?) That way, OP would get a big shot in the arm, as more people would be active in building it up!
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"No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try." -Yoda
"Sewage Portrayed As Meat...It's not just for breakfast anymore!" -LizardOTC
"Like a bad tooth and an unsteady foot is confidence in a faithless man in time of trouble." - Proverbs 25:19
From: The Vast Midwestern Waste | Registered: Feb 2001
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Gymbo
Member # 30832
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posted July 13, 2002 07:21 AM
I am also in agreement 100% with this. Pokenaut and I discussed this a little bit at Origins and even a little bit more yesterday. I think it would solve a lot of problems. I mean the Pokemon Professors are supposed to symbolize the game as those trying to help it. And judging by what's happened recently, I think that the Pokemon Professors should be 21+. This way you have the maturity level that is needed for this type of duty. Teenagers (as a whole), have really nothing to keep their egos in check, and thus the immaturity.
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=Pokemon Professor Jim Ferrell=
*AKA The Publically Acclaimed and Talented Deck Mechanic Gymbo*
*Accomplished Rogue Player*
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DCI: 2032
AIM: XGymbo01X
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
From: Akron, OH, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted July 13, 2002 08:29 AM
Sorry guys, but I have to disagree on this. I think most 15+ ARE ready to participate in the Professor Program, at least skill-wise. However, because 15-18 year olds can't be TO's, maybe there should be a separate Professor category for those youth. Nevertheless, I think these youth have the skills to participate in the program and SHOULD be allowed to participate in ALL Professor tournaments. JMO.
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Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted July 13, 2002 08:40 AM
We dont need to ban the younger crowd folks. Alot of our younger professors have been doing stuff, Origins was a bad example of this I think. MTM actually had to explain the rules of normal drafting... which scared me that alot of people who were in there still didnt understand it. Arent professors suppost to know this? As stated on the Professor FAQ:
- familiarity with DCI™ Penalty Guidelines and Standard Floor Rules;
- knowledge of Limited (Sealed Deck and Booster Draft) and Constructed formats.
However there were some older players over 18 who had no idea what they were doing either. But I do not think the legal minors are the problem in this situation. I think the requirements to enter this program were a bit too easy. If I had my druthers, I would add something from the Master Professor requirements. Something like:
pass Professor requirements and
act as a judge or tournament organizer for at least one DCI-sanctioned tournaments per year OR
submit and have accepted at least one playtests, tournament reports, and/or Web articles per year.
I will say that I'm 15, have been since January, and if I get the cut off from the program, I'll still be organzing events here in Florida regardless IF I get anything from it. The Professor Program supports those who have to work constantly for others, rather than having all the careless fun. To me, it's more of a privilege to be in here, and I certainly dont take it for granted.
-Phil
[ July 13, 2002, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: GymLeaderPhil ]
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THIS is truly thinking outside of the box!
Check out Florida's Pokemon Website
From: Where ever the ladies take me | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted July 13, 2002 09:12 AM
There is no magical age of maturity-people vary. Furthermore, there is no end to the process. We really couldn't afford to raise the bar any higher in terms of age-we'd lose so many good people who do contribute.
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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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Lugia909
Member # 1997
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posted July 13, 2002 11:26 AM
One of the main reasons I advocated the 15-18 division was because there was a 'disconnect' there. Most people in this group are still in school, have little way of getting the needed income for travel to large-scale events, and so on. While TPC feels/felt that the line should cut at 15, I felt that this was taking a mindset based out of Japanese culture, in which school suddenly becomes very 'serious' at that age and one is expected to not screw around with 'childish' pursuits. In much of the rest of the world, this 'cutoff' doesn't occur, or doesn't occur with the veracity that it does in Japanese education.
However, I have since been forced to conclude that forming a 15-18 division would not be constructive. Looking at the current 'issues' dealing with player conduct, the vast majority of problems are coming from people in that bracket, or approaching it. Sure, not ALL players in those age groups are causing the trouble...but the disproportionate amount of them in there seems to suggest that TPC's conclusions about the competitive nature in that age group being a problem is accurate.
And yes, while this is a 'guilt by association' thing, it's a problem that seems to repeatedly come back to haunt this and other games. There is something in there that predisposes certain members of those brackets to act like, and treat others like, crap. Rather than tolerate it, I feel it shouldn't even be acknowledged. These people...until they get a clue that perhaps their house needs cleaning of certain 'difficult people'...shouldn't have anything to do with the Pokemon TCG.
And no, this has nothing to do with me being 'out to get kids', as some have inaccurately observed. It has MUCH more to do with wanting to see a lot of the issues that have been erupting as of late under control and/or _gone_. They pose a very great threat to this game, as do the people that're continuing to foment some sort of mindless 'revolution' or whatever they think they're doing. Ultimate fact is that these people are driving a stake right thru this game's heart, they don't care, and they're merely looking out for themselves. And with the 'not our problem' approach that the DCI seems to be heading toward in dealing with these matters...despite the fact that this DOES ultimately affect game play...I see no possible resolution to this.
If the 15-18 crowd wants something, then they should learn to police their ranks. Privileges are earned, not simply given...and with TPC and WotC arrayed against there being a 15-18 division, and loads of goings-on as of late to support their view on this, then my bet is that these aren't privileges that'll be coming along anytime soon...if ever.
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"A bowl of bridge mix, six or seven Mai-tais, and I'm in _heaven_!" -- Michael O'Donoghue
Possibly reachable at ICQ#115403550. Maybe.
From: Greater Metropolitan Rankin, IL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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ssjvegeta0405
Member # 24493
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posted July 13, 2002 01:03 PM
I agree with Lugia. I'm 16, and sorry to say, but I really don't have as much free time on my hands as I used to. Going to be a Junior, having difficult swimming practices (6:00-8:00 A.M. and 3:30 - 8:00 sometimes), track, and cross country. I also have to keep up my grades, so it is very hard to actually participate anymore, let alone judge and set up tournies. There is also the fact that my parents are very strict and I have yet to get a driving permit. So that is also another limitation. But this is only me. I do agree, though, that people mature at different rates, so one age group cannot be really targeted.
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)V( Vegeta
IM me at ToneDogg0405
Track runner now....track runner 4 life...
From: Hammond, Indiana | Registered: May 2001
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GymLeaderPhil
Member # 455
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posted July 13, 2002 01:05 PM
So in other words... your saying that the 15-18 individuals do not deserve anything until they act on their own to destroy the problem (being themselfs)? You want us to go around and tell individuals who were born after and inbetween a set date to watch their tounge?
Your making it sound like those brought onto this earth anytime after yourself could quite possibly be bad apples and everyone before you are sound in every way shape or form. Where is the logic in this? I missed it.
ANYONE CAN BE SOUR
From my standpoint, the DCI does a good job checking on everyone's conduct if your involved in a program like this or in a DCI Sanctioned Event. It is up to the JUDGES AND ORGANIZERS to report this behavior to the DCI. Let me tell you, alot of the professors in this forum have come to a point where a situation is debatable for them to speak up about or put their own foot in the door, I know I have. With all due respect, do not bash a ratings and rankings service for the follies of a head judge who ponders whether Timmy should get a warning reported to the DCI if he assulted his opponent during the round. We should be at blame not the DCI.
Besides the DCI can only do so much legally. The individuals who were involved with identity theft we're suspended from this Professor Program. Why? Professor Program is run by the DCI as stated on the Professor Membership Cards, so you act up, you get banned. There is no earthly way for Wizards/DCI/TPC/Nintendo/Anyone to ban these individuals from a Pokemon product or just to attend (but not participate) in a DCI Event. What you are asking is the impossible, an all out war on these individuals. I dont want this bickering to continue, that they're ruining the game. Your ruining the game by continuing to mention these individuals, which is really what they want from us:
Attention
Just drop this crusade against these people, they dont represent me or anyone else in that age range.
-Phil
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THIS is truly thinking outside of the box!
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From: Where ever the ladies take me | Registered: Feb 2001
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Lugia909
Member # 1997
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posted July 13, 2002 02:06 PM
Fine. I've had enough of this.
If you people can't see the problems facing this game, and you think a bunch of rude, boorish, and immature punks are the best the Pokemon TCG can offer in gaming, then you deserve what happens to this game as a result. Go play with your idiot friends; I'm done.
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"A bowl of bridge mix, six or seven Mai-tais, and I'm in _heaven_!" -- Michael O'Donoghue
Possibly reachable at ICQ#115403550. Maybe.
From: Greater Metropolitan Rankin, IL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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SteveP
Member # 14743
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posted July 13, 2002 04:37 PM
Come on now Lugia, don't get so upset when others disagree with you, especially when many of those 'others' are in the very group that is being discussed about in this posting.
GL Phil may only be 15, but he made a VERY valid point. I totally agree that DCI/TOs/judges are responsible for policing for mis-behaved Professors.
Anyway, personally I feel that some of our fiercest, most-skilled players come from the 15-18 group. My eliminating them, we'd be diluting the skill-level of our Professor Program. JMO.
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Proud member of Team PokéParents - we play Pokémon with our kids!
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Xeodus
Member # 58404
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posted July 13, 2002 04:51 PM
I completely agree with everything DGL said. This just needs to be dropped. Let these "elite" players go on with their time in the game, and GL's can take care of them.
Everyone just needs to let everything be. GLs who have kept up with all of this knows how to deal with this now. Even from a post I've seen a while back about how to handle these types, GLs already knew how to do it. I've been paying very much attention to all of this, and it seems like both sides, mainly between Bomiester and Lugia909 are just antagonizing each other and making it continue on. It's all now just based on personal indifferences with each other.
Unless there is another situation of to the extent of falsifying identities, everyone should leave everyone else alone in the manner. Like I said, GLs will deal with these players if they are a threat. Arguing as we've noticed doesn't help. Just let it all be, dac. Let us fellow professors and GLs deal with these souls at our leagues and/or tournaments. Otherwise, all of this bickering between a few people will never end.
From: Michigan | Registered: Jan 2002
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted July 13, 2002 06:39 PM
THEY did win some propaganda war., THEY came out with ALL THEIR GUNS aiming and firing... AND THEY HIT a chord.
The problem was that THEY DID NOT REALIZE where and to whom and WHAT they aimed at.
THEM & ALL OF US.
There are repercussions, BUT it sure seems tho that WE are the ones enduring it.
THEY believe that CONTINUING to antagonize and insult in very boorish ways is FUN. (sure it is at that age TOO BAD they are being no better & want to 'supposedly' act their age or be 'themselves' BS, it is IMAGE ![[Roll Eyes]](../tcg/rolleyes.gif) -keep it to AIM & email so WE DON'T have to witness it, duh)
WHAT I want to see is THEM responding maturely. Perhaps one of them becoming a focal point of contact with MTM & DCI.
They can write pages of fun and jokes and WHY wizpog is Lock/ban happy and how some members of this community ... (yeah I've been reading up on all of this), the potential is there.
I WANT them organize a well thought out campaign and communicate with WotC. (cause Lugia909 had plans, BIG PLANS, and HE is NOT going to do it - and I believe HE VERY well knows how to accomplish it.)
SHOULD there be an 15-18 age group. NOPE. It is a privilege not a right. I got emotionally DRAINED when 15+ was about to be removed the 1st time, been there done that, I'm a prof/TO & will suport this game being a prof... you want WotC sponsored tourneys, you need more than to pull some emotional strings here... be organized AND representative that we WANT to rally behind (so far its no good)
WELL, let them WORK on earning it. IF not. IF all the insults are just to FRACTURE us & have a good laugh... THEN be gone with these topics & revolutions (now if they could use some of THEIR eloquent skills to fight war, terrorism, corporate mismanagement, political favors, etc... what a better worlds it would be.
POKEMON? Puleeeeese....
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SHUT UP & DO something about it
From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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Joshman
Member # 1220
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posted July 13, 2002 06:40 PM
I'm locking this for a few reasons:
1) Redundancy: Seems like we've been going through circles on this, how many subjects do we need on this. We already have that supposed "magic base" topic thats already degraded into a topic like this.
2) Personal Conduct: Seems that some people are taking this a bit personally and lack the maturity to handle this discussion, even here where we are supposedly adults. The Professor's forum is not the place to throw insults or hissy fits in the name of discussion.
I think it's time we let this matter end.
Click!
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"Spoken like a true loser! If you're not playing to win, you shouldn't even bother playing!" ~ Bertie, Sailor Moon ep.64
"You missed it. All reality has come to an end. Yes, I, Thanos of Titan, am responsible. But I did not destroy the universe for the reasons you would assume. You see, I gained complete mastery over all there was, and then... discovered my achievements were naught but an insane joke." --- Thanos, Marvel: The End
From: Virginia, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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