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Author
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Topic: Should we really be discussing TMP rules here?
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted March 25, 2002 07:58 PM
I was thinking-we've been discussing Team Format rules here about since the forum opened, but here's the problem: Not just Professors play TMP. Lots of people do, and they can't discuss rules questions here. Is that really fair to them? Now, some TMP questions are being asked in Single card S&R. I think they should all be there.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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Alaka-Deka
Member # 2032
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posted March 25, 2002 09:01 PM
Actually, I seem to remember someone mentioning a Team Format section being added to the boards. There are going to be alot of questions on the subject.
~Deka
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While force is often prefered, the strongest weapon is still intelligence.
From: Boston, MA / San Antonio, TX, US | Registered: Feb 2001
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BJJ763
Member # 158
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posted March 26, 2002 05:47 AM
Yes we should be discussing them here. Here is where hopefully our input will be gathered into Team Play rulings. Those that cannot post here but in Single Rulings are probably looking for Professors' input on a ruling, but anybody can give their opinion on the question. Professors posting here are looking for Professors input about something, and are probably just wanting confirmation about their interpretation, or valid reasons refuting their interpretation, of a situation.
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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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SD_PokeMom
Member # 97
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posted March 26, 2002 07:03 AM
ANYONE can read here, Yoshi...not just Professors. So yes, IMHO, we Professors should be discussion TMP rulings/problems here, as we are the ones who will be submitting the playtesting reports to MTM. Non-professors who are interested in TMP can still read here.
JMHO...
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Master Professor/Tournament Organizer/Pokémon League Gym Leader,
Adventure Games and Comics, Poway, CA
Nothing endures in this world. Everything changes according to karma. But, like the ocean, underneath the restless existance of the countless waves there is one boundless stillness that embraces and gives life to all the moving waves. Namuamidabutsu...
From: San Diego, CA --location of WCSTS-2001 and West Stadium Challenge 2002 | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted March 26, 2002 09:52 AM
Interesting points. However, I must disagree. Simply being able to read this forum does not justify having to jump from one place to the other to get answers. Also, you need to consider the behaviors of non-professors. I highly doubt they regularly check in here.
In any event, I really think a format played by all players should be discussed in a place availible for all players to comment.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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Lugia909
Member # 1997
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posted March 26, 2002 09:56 AM
One other point, also...by doing this here in something of a 'fishbowl', it allows other people to see what's involved in testing and honing down a format. And that's a good thing...it helps explain more about the game's mechanics, and it also makes it clearer that formats don't just pop up like crabgrass on a lawn.
From: Greater Metropolitan Rankin, IL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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PokePop
Member # 8
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posted March 26, 2002 10:02 AM
Yoshi: You gotta remember, this is a test format. Testing is supposed to be done with a Prof. Any opinions on Team Format rulings should really come from a Prof. That's part of the whole zeitgest of the Prof program.
Here is the right place for all Team stuff. At least while it is still a test format.
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"This kind of makes you miss the compendium..." - Martin Moreno
The Compendium: http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net
Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted March 26, 2002 10:06 AM
Lugia: How would discussing these rules in an open forum preclude that from happening. I'm sorry, but I just don't see the purpose of excluding people from debate in issues that directly affect them. I mean, the only way in which this involves professors at all is that we got the rules first and we're supposed to give feedback to Wizards. On that grounds, I can't justify leaving those people without a direct line of communication on some TMP issues.
Pop: Yes, I know it is a test format. I just don't see why we should exclude people like this. Maybe some people don't have access to a Professor. Maybe they have a Professor but disagree with them on something. I know that the Professor Program was designed to collect the best and brightest people in order to improve the game. Now, I do realize that MT Mike posted this to the Professor List:
quote:
Steven,
Keep in mind that we are aksing YOU all to think of these type of questions and come up with what YOU think the answers should be. That is what play-testing is about.
Aside from the obvious mistake of asking me to help figure out the rules ![[Big Grin]](../tcg/biggrin.gif) , I suppose that one could say evaluating the format is the Professor's job. However, I think the role of non-Professors in playtesting should be increased.
[ March 26, 2002, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: yoshi1001 ]
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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lance313
Member # 1891
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posted March 26, 2002 02:57 PM
Okay, the way I see it:
Professors are the conduit for information, etc. More or less the liason between the MTs and the players in general. The format comes through the Professors to the players, and the input and questions, suggestions, etc. should filter back through the Professors. So this forum is the proper place to discuss and congeal the thoughts before submission and finalization to the game makers for formal rules. If someone has a question or thought on the format, it should go through the Professor that they are testing the format for. Once the format becomes official, then it should be open to all for discussion.
Remember, the Professors are the ones charged (and have the privilege) of doing the playtesting by virtue of their status, not the rest of the community. That's one of the perks. Not just getting the proposed rules first, but being the more or less official testers before they become official rules. Sorry if this last paragraph became somewhat elitist, but that was PART (not most of it, just a part) of the incentive and point of becoming a Professor in the first place, right?
[ March 26, 2002, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: lance313 ]
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From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted March 26, 2002 03:26 PM
Well, I still don't agree. I don't mind the professor list, since it's more of an information conduit than a discussion medium. This however, is more discussion-oriented. Our opinions may carry more weight, but non-professors have a right to make their views heard. Therefore, I ask that the following policies be in place:
1. Non-professors may start topics in Single Card S&R even if the topic duplicates a TMP topic in the Professor forum.
2. Professors may start a TMP topic in either forum (I'd rather post in SC S&R since I can get more opinions there).
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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SD_PokeMom
Member # 97
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posted March 26, 2002 03:45 PM
Yoshi: IMHO, NO.
There is a reason the TMP rules were released to the Professors, and a reason why MTM will only be taking reports from the Professors on suggestions etc. for TMP changes.
If MTM had wanted the entire Pokémon-playing community's input on the rules, he would have released the rules to everyone and would be soliciting reports from everyone. He isn't; he wants input from the Professors as regards playtesting of this format.
This is supposed to be one of the ways the professors are serving as leaders and mentors of the community. Like I said before, ANYONE can read this forum; this is stated very clearly on the front page of WizPoG, so it's not like non-Professors are being deprived of information about the format.
I'm sorry you think this is elitist or whatever, but IMHO the discussion should be kept here in the Professor forum...and unless we hear otherwise from MTM, IMHO topics should not be duplicated in other forums.
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Master Professor/Tournament Organizer/Pokémon League Gym Leader,
Adventure Games and Comics, Poway, CA
Nothing endures in this world. Everything changes according to karma. But, like the ocean, underneath the restless existance of the countless waves there is one boundless stillness that embraces and gives life to all the moving waves. Namuamidabutsu...
From: San Diego, CA --location of WCSTS-2001 and West Stadium Challenge 2002 | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted March 26, 2002 04:01 PM
I understand your viewpoint, but I find it difficult to agree when all that seperates me from a non-professor is 3.5 years and 12 questions on a test. Besides, I figure that I can't remain objective without questioning my own position once in a while. Now, seeing as how the only person who can answer this is MTM, I will leave my side of the discussion at that. You are all intelligent, competent people, and I will respect your rules.
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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DMTM
Member # 10
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posted March 26, 2002 04:23 PM
Sorry Yoshi this is the perfect place to discuss it. That is what it is set up for. We want the feeback that a discussion can generate. End of story. It is why this place exists.
It is one of the main reasons we have the Prof's in the first place, as a sounding board.
DMTM
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Frodo_Baggins - "Like the guy said "Get out of the box""
From: Seattle, Wa, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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yoshi1001
Member # 825
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posted March 26, 2002 05:20 PM
DMTM:
Of course, you have more experience with such things than I, I will trust that this is the correct path to take.
Second, I would like to commend everyone involved in this topic. We carried out a well-mannered discussion of an important issue. I think that says something important: Even though we may disagree with each other, we can still respect each other. I think that bodes well for this program.
And with that, I return you to my regularly scheduled life, already in progress:
Got any fives?
Mewtwo: Go fish.
Er, wait, I return you to your regularly scheduled lives, already in progress:
Got any fives?
Mewtwo: Go fish.
Hmmm...either our lives are all the same...
Mewtwo: Or none of them are regularly scheduled.
Okay, guys that's it! Just wanted to end this one on a high note!
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AIM: yoshi1001
From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001
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