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Author
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Topic: TMP Rulings Discussion
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Spectreon
Member # 60305
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posted March 14, 2002 06:23 AM
[CHRISBO EDIT - Fixed title.]
First of all, I thought I would open a new Topic where we can ask questoins on rulings, and how things "in our opinion" should work.
My first Question, and according to the rules, looks like it should work, what if I Eeeeeeek, can my teammate shuffle there hand into there deck and draw 7 cards instead???
Also, if I play Elm, and let my Teammate use it, who gets the effect of you cant play any more Trainer cards?
A cool Combo I found out this weekend, Simular to Double Gust and Ballon Berry, DG your opponent with yours, then Warp Point against the other players Pokemon!!!
[ March 14, 2002, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Chrisbo ]
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To evolve, treat Eevee poorly, when it hates your guts, let it get ko'ed in th night while holding Spell Tag. PS, if it gets ko'ed outin the day, then it will die, go visit its grave in Soul House of Lavender, next to Fuji
Spectreon: The Scary Ghost Pokemon
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From: Lavender Town, Kanto | Registered: Jan 2002
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SD_PokeMom
Member # 97
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posted March 14, 2002 06:27 AM
1): IMHO, no; you can decide which member of the opposite team to attack, and also which of you are going to use any non-attached Trainer card (like an Elm)...but Eeek is YOUR attack, so IMHO you must be the one to shuffle/draw.
2): Since it it YOUR turn when you play Elm, IMHO it's you who can't play any more trainers that turn, even if your teammate uses it. What do others think of this one?
'Mom
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Master Professor/Tournament Organizer/Pokémon League Gym Leader,
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Nothing endures in this world. Everything changes according to karma. But, like the ocean, underneath the restless existance of the countless waves there is one boundless stillness that embraces and gives life to all the moving waves. Namuamidabutsu...
From: San Diego, CA --location of WCSTS-2001 and West Stadium Challenge 2002 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Luke L Green
Member # 69377
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posted March 14, 2002 06:36 AM
Actually, I thought something similar to this was covered in one of the mail list letters. Didn't they say that whoever got the benefits of a trainer card also had to pay whatever cost was associated with it?
However, this does bring up the point that if I play Elm, my partner uses it (and can't play anymore trainer cards until his/her next turn) can my partner still USE trainer cards that I might play?
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Whatever my lot, thou has taught me to say it is well. It is well with my soul.
From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2002
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Spectreon
Member # 60305
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posted March 14, 2002 06:39 AM
quote:
11. All Trainer, Pokemon Power, or attack effects that specify "you" can be played on either you or your partner.
Eeeeeeek Say "Shuffle <YOUR> hand into your deck, then draw seven cards"
Unless Your and You is ruled as not the same thing it should work... At least that is my deduction... it is just a theory, I do agree with the Elm rule though, it should stay on the player who actually played it....
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To evolve, treat Eevee poorly, when it hates your guts, let it get ko'ed in th night while holding Spell Tag. PS, if it gets ko'ed outin the day, then it will die, go visit its grave in Soul House of Lavender, next to Fuji
Spectreon: The Scary Ghost Pokemon
Spectreon often haunt graveyards, sneaking up and scaring unsuspecting visitors
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SD_PokeMom
Member # 97
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posted March 14, 2002 06:51 AM
But, it says "played ON", not "played BY"..."on", to me, means an effect from your opponent done TO you. JMHO...
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Master Professor/Tournament Organizer/Pokémon League Gym Leader,
Adventure Games and Comics, Poway, CA
Nothing endures in this world. Everything changes according to karma. But, like the ocean, underneath the restless existance of the countless waves there is one boundless stillness that embraces and gives life to all the moving waves. Namuamidabutsu...
From: San Diego, CA --location of WCSTS-2001 and West Stadium Challenge 2002 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Spectreon
Member # 60305
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posted March 14, 2002 06:56 AM
Ok the effect Shuffle/draw is played on my teammate... At least that is my understanding... this is a losing arguement, so I will refrain from posting on this anymore.... we will have to wait and see. I hope I am right, but will understand if I am wrong. I will continue to play it as only I can use it as I have been til I find out for sure that my teamate can use it if I/we choose. I dont want to cheat, or use a rule that there is no rule for so I have been playing it as only I could do it!!!!
[ March 14, 2002, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: Spectreon ]
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To evolve, treat Eevee poorly, when it hates your guts, let it get ko'ed in th night while holding Spell Tag. PS, if it gets ko'ed outin the day, then it will die, go visit its grave in Soul House of Lavender, next to Fuji
Spectreon: The Scary Ghost Pokemon
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From: Lavender Town, Kanto | Registered: Jan 2002
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Occult_Mastermind
Professor
Member # 208
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posted March 14, 2002 07:08 AM
Think of elm like chaos gym. If your opponant gets to use it, he's in the clear. And the player recieved no direct benifit from playing it.
I say you can play elm after elm for your opponant.
After playing a few matches you will realize it is no big deal. For the most part you will need to use the elm yourself. Also, that is one less elm available for you to play.
![[Devilish]](../tcg/graemlins/diablo.gif)
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From: SoCal Techville | AIM: bomiester2 | Registered: Feb 2001
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Luke L Green
Member # 69377
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posted March 14, 2002 07:28 AM
Whoa. Wait a minute. Unless a Chaos Gym is in play, your opponent will not be able to use an Elm you play. What we're asking is, if I play an Elm for my teammate to use, can I not play any more trainer cards until the end of my turn or can my teammate not play anymore trainer cards until the end of his/her turn.
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Whatever my lot, thou has taught me to say it is well. It is well with my soul.
From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2002
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Spectreon
Member # 60305
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posted March 14, 2002 07:31 AM
Luke, he is simply refering to if in a regular Battle, with Chaos Gym in play, you play Elm and Fail, and your opponent uses it, you can still play trainers, and your opponent can still play trainers. Occult is simply staing he believes it is simular when playing it for your teammate
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To evolve, treat Eevee poorly, when it hates your guts, let it get ko'ed in th night while holding Spell Tag. PS, if it gets ko'ed outin the day, then it will die, go visit its grave in Soul House of Lavender, next to Fuji
Spectreon: The Scary Ghost Pokemon
Spectreon often haunt graveyards, sneaking up and scaring unsuspecting visitors
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Spectreon
Member # 60305
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posted March 14, 2002 07:44 AM
2 New Questions
1) If ND Tyranitar or Dark Ursiring use their attacks, do you flip for all of yours, your teammates, and both opponents benched Pokemon? Or just the bench of you or your teammate, then the bench of the opponent whose active you just attacked?
2) If you are confused, can you chose to have your Teammate take the damage??? Reasons for this.... Healing Feilds, activate Berry or Gold Berry between turns, or they have a Rage type attack that does more damage if the have counters on them....
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To evolve, treat Eevee poorly, when it hates your guts, let it get ko'ed in th night while holding Spell Tag. PS, if it gets ko'ed outin the day, then it will die, go visit its grave in Soul House of Lavender, next to Fuji
Spectreon: The Scary Ghost Pokemon
Spectreon often haunt graveyards, sneaking up and scaring unsuspecting visitors
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted March 14, 2002 07:47 AM
If you fail a chaos gym flip then you DONT get to PLAY the ELM at all. That is why you can try to play another trainer....
Without the Chaos gym: If I play the gym then I get to choose if either myself or my partner gets the benefit. However it was still ME that PLAYED the card so its ME that cant play any more trainers.
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From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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Spectreon
Member # 60305
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posted March 14, 2002 08:15 AM
But MTM already stated when specifically asked about elm, the player who gets one effect gets all the effect...
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To evolve, treat Eevee poorly, when it hates your guts, let it get ko'ed in th night while holding Spell Tag. PS, if it gets ko'ed outin the day, then it will die, go visit its grave in Soul House of Lavender, next to Fuji
Spectreon: The Scary Ghost Pokemon
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Lord_Ninetales
Member # 386
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posted March 14, 2002 11:12 AM
I think the rule SHOULD (note: "should", not "is") be that turn restrictions cannpt be transferred - therefore Elm would stop you using Trainers if you used it on yourself or your partner, and cards like Minion of Team Rocket would end your turn if they failed, not the turn of your partner, who isn't even in a turn.
All other effects should be transferable.
Just my opinion...
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From: Glasgow, Scotland | Registered: Feb 2001
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Ditto
Member # 955
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posted March 14, 2002 03:13 PM
IMHO i think that if you play an elm for your team mate then they can't play any trainers on there next turn. otherwise there it would just ignore the drawbacks of elm and you could have a better oak by just playing elms for your team mate only and him/her for you so that you never have the drawback.
Ex. 1 player A plays elm for player B. next turn is player B's turn. on his turn he can't play trainers since he "elmed". JMHO
Ex. 2 player A plays elm for player B. next turn, (since some people think the effect isn't transfered since it wasn't played on the actual turn) player B can still play trainers and can elm for Player A, then when it gets around to Player A's turn he/she can still play trainers. in this example neither player had to take the downfall of not playing trainers and they didn't have to discard they're hands.
IMHO i think Ex. 1 is correct, not Ex. 2. What do you guys think?
From: St. Peters, MO, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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IPGeek21
Member # 184
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posted March 14, 2002 03:48 PM
I agree with Lord_Ninetales...
The teammate NEVER PLAYED the trainer only USED it, so player 1 cannot PLAY anymore trainers BUT the teammate CAN on their turn.
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From: The here, BUT WHERE shall we go? | Registered: Feb 2001
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Luke L Green
Member # 69377
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posted March 14, 2002 04:45 PM
"You could not split the effect of a trainer. Either YOU use it (and =
take the negative) or you let your team-mate do so.
MTM
Somthing Yoshi1001 posted on WizPoG got me thinking...
If I played a "Professor Elm" in a Team match, could I opt to "split"the =
effects, ie. put the block on using Trainers on my Partner, but do the =
rest myself, or vice versa?"
A direct quote from MTM (no, not Mary Tyler Moore). It appears that if your pardner uses the Elm, your pardner can't play anymore trainer cards THAT turn.
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Whatever my lot, thou has taught me to say it is well. It is well with my soul.
From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2002
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Chrisbo
Member # 9
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posted March 14, 2002 05:02 PM
But then it comes down to semantics. Did my partner "USE" the Elm, or did they "PLAY" it. Current rulings in one-on-one situations with Chaos Gym say that if I flip tails and my opponent USES Elm, if I try to use Elm again and flip tails they can USE my second Elm because they are not PLAYing it.
Rule 11 states that "All Trainer, ..., that specify "you" can be played on either you or your partner." To me that says when playing Elm, either me or my partner (whoever gets to do the Elm text) would not be allowed to PLAY any more trainers. So for example, if I have my partner PLAY the Elm, I would be able to PLAY a Nightly Garbage Run on myself but I could not do it on my partner.
My $0.02,
- CHRISBO
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-- Moderator, Wizards' PokéGym (aka "WizPoG")
-- Head Judge (11-14), West Stadium Challenge, 2002
-- Tournament Judge, World Championships 2002
-- Tournament Judge, Super Trainer Showdown 2001 (East & West)
-- Founding member of Team Compendium.
From: Orange County, CA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Spectreon
Member # 60305
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posted March 15, 2002 06:18 AM
The only fair thing would be to make sure that one player or the other can not play trainers when Elm is played, I believe the correct person should still be the one who played it, but somebody has to take the negitave... there should be a draw back, or this card is way broken.
What if anything has been decided on Eeking for your partner???? just curious.
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To evolve, treat Eevee poorly, when it hates your guts, let it get ko'ed in th night while holding Spell Tag. PS, if it gets ko'ed outin the day, then it will die, go visit its grave in Soul House of Lavender, next to Fuji
Spectreon: The Scary Ghost Pokemon
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lance313
Member # 1891
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posted March 18, 2002 01:08 AM
Re: ND Tyranitar (Trample)/D. Usaring (Battle Frenzy) - since they reference both players (similar to Poison and Asleep), you should use the attacks against ALL referenced Pokémon on ALL 4 (if that many remain) players' Pokémon in play.
Cleffa's Eeeeeeek (shuffle your hand into your deck and draw 7 cards) is useable as an attack for either teammate. So either player can shuffle/draw, but the player controlling Cleffa turn ends. Same with Eek (promo Cleffa - draw 2 cards).
As for Elm, I believe that the player controlling the card can transfer the shuffle/draw to his/her teammate. As for the 'no more trainers can be played this turn', it should probably played as no more trainers can be played that turn by the person controlling the card. I know this flies in the face of not splitting up the effecs, but is more consistent with Eeeeeeek, wherein the person attacking has THEIR turn ended, even if their teammate get to do the shuffle/draw.
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From: Vista, near San Diego, Home of 2001 WCSTS, 2002 West Stadium and 2003 SuperBowl | Registered: Feb 2001
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NoPoke
Member # 42315
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posted March 18, 2002 01:42 AM
I thought that the idea behind publishing the TMP rules was for us to find out what works what doesn't and to propose workable changes, Clarifications, etc. Not to get to caught up in the finer detail of what is an alpha proposal.
Strong drawing cards should have a down-side to avoid them becoming TOO powerfull. Hence we decided that whoever plays ELM can't play any further trainers.
Also that when game actions require you to select a particular player that selection gets locked in to the interpretation of the card. eg as part of the attack step Announcing the attack also includes specifying which pokemon is to be the defending pokemon for that particular attack.
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GymLeader - DCI TO - occasional player
UK's first Master Prof.
Give me good news or bad news but not no news
My board name was never meant to be a prophesy :(
From: Crawley England | Registered: Sep 2001
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