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Author Topic: Format Questions
vaporeon74

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posted December 29, 2002 05:22 PM      Profile for vaporeon74   Email vaporeon74    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
There has been several heated discussions in our gym as to format and banned cards, such as Slowking(Jan.1/03) and Sneasel (Genesis).
They are questioning this: Because they are banned under new format, does that make them acceptable in the unlimited format?

I figured the safest answer was to get it straight from the horse's mouth. Thanks.

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From: Barrie, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
yoshi1001

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posted December 29, 2002 05:36 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Well, I'm actually a dinosaur, but Sneasel and Slowking and Sneasel are (and always have been) legal in unlimited. They are banned from Modified constructed and team constructed, of course.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
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posted December 29, 2002 09:59 PM      Profile for The Dark Llama   Email The Dark Llama    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
That's why it's called UNLIMITED, there are no restrictions (that I know of) on what cards to use! So yes, those two- and all others -are legal there.

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Bronx

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posted December 30, 2002 07:07 AM      Profile for Bronx   Email Bronx    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
I find that to be very weird... these backwards rulings are very trying on my nerves... when i t is banned its banned, no matter what format, the horrid nightmares about sneasel would come true, flip " " coins to use the attack, infinate damage, thats why it was banned in the first place, thats why most of our players have stopped playing pokemon mainly because the rules are always changing. I personally would like to know if the Induvidual Gym has the authority to BAN a banned card, i mean really... are you really going to allow someone to use an ancient Mew and a happy birthday pikachu in unlimited format??? these cards were banned (most of them anyway) before the new sets came out, i find it hard to believe that you would let anyone use a ancient mew that has been as banned as sneasel, you get where im at here?

A banned card is a banned card. its broken, its unfair, it is useless to all.

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Porygone3
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posted December 30, 2002 07:38 AM      Profile for Porygone3      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
there are only 2 cards that are baned in "unlimited" and thats Ancent Mew and Happy Birthy Pikachu, however, I'm sure if you had all your cards in sleves and a translation of it Ancent Mew could be alowed by whoever was running it. And if you had a birthcertific with you, I dont see any reasion for not being alowed to play Happy Birthy Pikachu, as long as you didnt have more then 4 in the deck (regardless of what you fill in the name as, and I would also rull that if you name happened to be a trainers name those cards would still not effect that card)

there you go, you can't "ban" anything in unlimited because no one would ever stop using it, I belive thats why its called unlimited. And Sneezel only gets to flip a set amout of coins- not innifante- personaly is not worth it to me- as you would just kill my Chancey (maybe) and I would send up something powerfull. Man, doent anyone play HyperBeem decks anymore... engery removal2 even?

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yoshi1001

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posted December 30, 2002 08:37 AM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
No card is an island, Bronx. Also, do recall that WotC has very few reasons to extensively support Unlimited.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bronx

Member # 103010



posted December 30, 2002 09:45 AM      Profile for Bronx   Email Bronx    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by Porygone3:
there are only 2 cards that are baned in "unlimited" and thats Ancent Mew and Happy Birthy Pikachu,

Hold on right there... when you look at teh "Banned Cards" list, it has those two on it along with Sneasel, and soon to be Slowking, you cannot tell me that half is banned and half is not, its like saying a knife is half dull and half sharp, its either one or the other, and Yoshi, im not saying that Wizards should keep unlimited, im just saying that those 4 cards were banned for reasons, they are unfair for competetive gameplay, and i feel they should stay out of all formats. period.

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WizPoG_Pop

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posted December 30, 2002 10:03 AM      Profile for WizPoG_Pop   Email WizPoG_Pop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Bronx: Your reasoning does not really apply.

13 year olds are banned from X-rated movies and are restricted from entering R rated movies (must have adult with them) but can go on their own to any PG movie. You see? You can very easily ban something from one format (X) and it will still be legal in another (PG).

Or, the other way around, nudity is banned from G and PG movies but is "format-legal" for R and X movies.

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DOMCGI

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posted December 30, 2002 11:07 AM      Profile for DOMCGI      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
As I always say, Pokemon Card game are classified as DCI sanction game and Non-DCI sanction game.

When it is non-DCI sanction game (include causal game, non-DCI sanction Tournament, league ....), the DCI standard will only be a reference but not have to follow. Event organizer (EO) can set his own rule; players in causal game can set their own rule; Gym Leader can set their own gym rule.

When it is DCI sanction game (DCI Tournament), the game should follow the DCI standard. The current format for 2 players constructed game are Unlimited and Modified.

Unlimited and Modified are 2 different formats and have their own list of cards to be allowed or not allowed.

Unlimited allow any cards issued from WOTC (and the equivalence foreign language card) except the Ancient Mew and Birthday Pikichu.

Modified allow only Neo Genesis and later (include LC) except the Ancient Mew, Birthday Pikichu, Genesis Sneasl, Genesis Slowking, promo #1 to #20.

Those formats are defined in the Pokemon DCI Floorplan document.

I agree with Yoshi that WOTC are not really care the unlimited format any more. So people can expect the unlimited format will not be changed any more.

People can choose to follow DCI or not in their causal game. But when they want to enter any large event (e.g. Gym Challange tournament), they will have to follow the format for which the EO choosen. 99% of those event will be DCI sanction and hence follow the DCI standand. It is good to follow the DCI standard in the causal game.

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From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JDGloom

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posted December 30, 2002 02:59 PM      Profile for JDGloom      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Bronx, there are two seperate ban lists - one for unlimited and one for modified. What you're basically saying is that because you choose to read/somehow only know of, the modified ban list, that sneasel and slowking should be banned in Unlimited too.

Both lists are in the DCI Floor Rules for Pokemon, edition 2002-2003. This is required, and familiar reading for anyone who's a professor... "a banned card" is NOT a banned card on both lists, just because it's on one list. With nearly ten professors in your gym, I'm amazed no one just settled this by looking up the ban list. o_O

In Unlimited, Sneasel and Slowking can be controlled due to the high level of card control, energy removal, and the general ease with which Tech like SI Jigglypuff, Pichu, and Brock's Mankey can be used. They're not a big problem, this is why they aren't banned. If people around you are quitting because of a proliferation of sneasel and slowking, get them to play three Brock's Mankey or three Pichu and some focus bands in their deck. The result will be very, very different unless you're playing against a highly experienced sneasel or slowking player.

How a large group of professors couldn't look up the ban lists in their own reading materials is beyond me. In case you need it, here's a link to a doc of the Floor Rules:

http://pkcompendium.hypermart.net/compendium/wotc_pkfloor_rules/FR_Pokemon_2002-03.doc

Sections 225 and 226 contain the two SEPERATE ban lists for the Unlimited and Modified formats.

-Gloom

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yoshi1001

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posted December 30, 2002 03:06 PM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Bronx: You can argue what you want, but the fact is Sneasel/King are far easier to counter in Unlimited than in Modified.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bronx

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posted December 30, 2002 07:08 PM      Profile for Bronx   Email Bronx    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
can someone please tell wizards to etch a rulebook in stone?

King is not invincible, he is a tool, Muk can stop it dead, now please agree with me that sneasel is still a bad*** with the ability to flip so many in Unlimited Team play? This might be an opinion, but i still think they need to make it *crystal* clear,

Need two quick rulings here, Modified means, Any? modified? ie, Say im making a modified tourny or something, and i limit the use of cards to rocket forward, are those cards banned? or are they only in the "sanctioned" modified type, its vague yes but i have a point...

Ancient Mew and B-day pikachu are banned from all formats, correct? I see what your saying but i just think that Wizards needs to carve some granite on a few, jelly like rulings...

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WizPog_BJJ

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posted December 30, 2002 07:52 PM      Profile for WizPog_BJJ   Email WizPog_BJJ    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
For DCI Sanctioned tournaments, "Modified" means "Modified" as defined by the DCI Pokémon Floor rules. So a DCI Sanctioned Tourney run 12/31/2002 can have Slowking in it, while one run 01/01/2003 cannot have Slowking in it.

Non-sanctioned. Really doesn't matter what it's called does it.

quote:
can someone please tell wizards to etch a rulebook in stone?
You do know that this is Pokémon we're talking about. A rule is 'etched in stone' only until it is overturned. You can reference The Compendium (link in my sig) for many such examples.

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From: Warwick RI USA | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
PokePop

Member # 8



posted December 30, 2002 08:49 PM      Profile for PokePop   Email PokePop    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
Originally posted by Bronx:
Need two quick rulings here, Modified means, Any? modified? ie, Say im making a modified tourny or something, and i limit the use of cards to rocket forward, are those cards banned?

See! Right there is why it's such a bad thing to have this "MF" and "MMF" and "MMMF" thing going on. It makes a lot of people think that there are real, multiple choices in formats for DCI games.

There is only one MF, or Modified Format. As the name suggests, it gets modified on a regular basis. It's old versions are not different formats. They are old iterations of the same format.

Modified is Modified. As of 1/1/03, Slowking is out. Period.
If you are playing Standard or non-sanctioned, Slowking can come to the party.

If you want to play some non-sanctioned version of "Rocket On", you had better type up the format rules yourself and pass them out, because they are your rules, not WotC's or the DCI's.

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JDGloom

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posted December 30, 2002 10:26 PM      Profile for JDGloom      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
quote:
now please agree with me that sneasel is still a bad*** with the ability to flip so many in Unlimited Team play? This might be an opinion, but i still think they need to make it *crystal* clear,
This comment makes no sense. There is no Unlimited Team Play. TMP = Team Modified Play. It's the only Team format that's sanctionable, for a reason.

For all the "etched in stone" rulings up to the minute, go to the professor faq page and you'll find links to almost everything you'll need:

http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=pokemon/events/professorfaq

This contains links to the Pokemon Floor Rules, Tournament Organizer Rules, Master Rules doc, Compendium, and the Online Advanced Rule Book. Those, and the penalty guides and such, make up the entire suite of rulings and procedural texts. These are totally carved in stone, and totally available with ease, considering they're right there on the prof FAQ. The only things that will change much are the sets for Modified, and regular rulings updates in the Compendium. It's not that WOTC isn't providing all the stuff RIGHT there. They are.

-jd

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Gyarados vision
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posted December 30, 2002 10:54 PM      Profile for Gyarados vision   Email Gyarados vision    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Remember,Slowking is banned from Modified format,but he is still legal in Unlimited & Limited format.Snesel is also the same as Slowking.

There are several reasons why they are banned.Snesel is overpowered (Free retreat,has the ablity to do huge amount of damage for just two Darkness energy!)Slowking is also overpowered even though it is an evolution card(your opponent can hardly play trainer card & he/she loses because of this)

Birthday Pikachu & Ancient Mew is another case.(not allowed in both format)Both of them does not come from any "sets".Moreover,you can't understand what the ancient mew text.hielographs?

No need to be sad....The king is not yet dead....You can have fun with other Slowking from SI or Aquapolis(no sure)

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From: Cheras,Kuala Lumpur,Malaysia | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bronx

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posted December 31, 2002 06:19 AM      Profile for Bronx   Email Bronx    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
like i said, king is only a pokemon power, but at least you see what i mean about Sneasel, and thank you for answering my question about the modified thing, but one more question about formats, is a major event run Modified or Unlimited? i.e. Stadium Challenge, or a World Championships, ect

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yoshi1001

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posted December 31, 2002 07:14 AM      Profile for yoshi1001   Email yoshi1001    Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Well, since ECSTS 2001, preimiere events have been some type of modified.

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From: Janesville, Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged
DOMCGI

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posted December 31, 2002 09:05 AM      Profile for DOMCGI      Edit/Delete Post Report This Thread to Moderators
Most the big event organized by WOTC are in Modified format. But sometime, it can be Unlimited (e.g. Professor Challenge in the World Championships in Aug). In the Pokémon Professor Championships (July), it even do both draft game and constructed game. The construct game are in the new (now should called current) "Modified" format before it effective on Sept 1.

The rule of thumb is to check the format before you join any event.

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